[algoodman]

Originally Posted by pharding

Great news for the F30 and potentially great news for US. Hopefully BMW will offer hydraulic steering ASAP on the F10 which is probably years away.

The XDrive 5ers have hydraulic steeering. My 2011 535ix has no steering issues.

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

If your 'similar issue' is at around 70 - 80mph, then that makes at least 4 UK users on the forum saying the same in recent days. Being specific, more defined than the 'less than precise' steering we've read of and experienced.

Certainly interested in the winter tyre change... will it be a RFT set, or non RFT?

HighlandPete

Pete, decided to go with the non-RFT winter tyres in the end. Vredestein Wintrac Xtreme 245/45R18 100V. Only done a brief 15 mins test so far - mix of motorway and urban roads.

Initial impressions are reduced noise, and much less cabin disturbance over pot holes and other road imperfections. It was very windy on the motorway so difficult to assess the steering, but I have a feeling the wandering may have gone. Will report back once I've done some proper miles.

I didn't have a problem with the RFT's before, but I suspect come Spring and they go back on, I might be disappointed.

[DNA_42]

Driving in last night's high winds was scary in my 520d. Like driving on an ice rink.

Gotta go back to the dealer!

[bimmernic]

Just had my iDrive software updated (version 38.2(?)). Thought that I was imagining things at first but after two weeks of driving and checking that the tyre pressure remained the same throughout, my impressions are that:

(a) the steering has more heft than before;

(b) the steering feels loads up under braking and lightens under acceleration - never noticed/felt this before;

(c) the tendency to wander, requiring constant, minor, steering corrections when going straight at > 80 km/h has been reduced significantly; this makes it less jittery/tiring to drive on highways; and

(d) the self-centering function is more pronounced than before.

I am on 18" non-RFTs and M-Sport suspension. YMMV.

[juztinl]

bimmernic. when was your F10 manufactured?

[pharding]

Steering Improvement in the Current F10 Iteration

My car is in the shop for the second time. My dealer gives me an F10 loaner car when my car is in the shop. This time I got a 535i with 250 miles on it. The basic steering has definitely been improved. I assume that it is just a software modification, but that is conjecture on my part. Compared to the prior loaner cars with a lot more miles and other 535's that I test drove in the summer, the steering on the new 535 loaner does not feel sloppy when driving straight. The steering feels very similar to my 550i with DHP and IAS. Hopefully BMW has implemented a fix to the sloppy when driving straight feel that so many people criticize the base F10 steering system.

[morkjt]

A sad and depressed UK 520d here owner here. When car came it appeared perfect, but at 5k mile, I've become convinced something is "up" with the steering - after long journeys, I notice my left hand is often stiff from continually correcting the steering - it feels "sloppy" going straight, and the lightest bump or gradient in the road, and the car goes off to the left, occasionally quite violently.

It _always_ goes to the left, never the right, and the steering wheel's natural resting position without hands seems to be slightly off centre, to the left.

Taken into Milton Keynes BMW this week, they found nothing, but I got quite rude saying a 40k should not drive like this - they've agreed to take it in again this week to put it on a laser alignment machine (kbc?), but I really think they are barking up the wrong tree......any advice?

[morkjt]

Originally Posted by bimmernic

Just had my iDrive software updated (version 38.2(?)). Thought that I was imagining things at first but after two weeks of driving and checking that the tyre pressure remained the same throughout, my impressions are that:

(a) the steering has more heft than before;

(b) the steering feels loads up under braking and lightens under acceleration - never noticed/felt this before;

(c) the tendency to wander, requiring constant, minor, steering corrections when going straight at > 80 km/h has been reduced significantly; this makes it less jittery/tiring to drive on highways; and

(d) the self-centering function is more pronounced than before.

I am on 18" non-RFTs and M-Sport suspension. YMMV.

How do i check my idrive version?

Update on switch from rfts to winter non-rfts. Steering is much improved. Best way I can describe it is before I had to grip the steering wheel, at low speed to make sure it didn't suddenly veer on an adverse camber, at motorway speeds to stop it twitching and to avoid having to make minor corrections. Now I 'hold' the steering wheel. It doesn't veer off and doesn't need corrections. In fact even on motorways with camber, I can let go of the wheel and the car drives in the direction it was last pointed.

The missus also commented how the ride was smoother and quieter. Hmmmm. It's still not perfect, but much much better. I haven't tested on the limit handling.

[HighlandPete]

I know I've commented on this many times, but to me "the elephant is in the room"... run-flat tyres.

The reason I've not gone ahead and bought an F11 touring is I've gone through all these issues before, in my present car. I really felt like a guinea pig in BMW's research and development. I see all you guys going through this again, I'm holding off going into F11 purchase, I want to know all the downsides this time. Will make a better judgement for specification.

Some of what is described, the driving on ice feel, steering correction, even camber sensitivities and to a degree pull, happened to my car with full hydraulic steering. The car felt hard work to drive, white knuckles at times, I was even tempted to leave the BMW marque and go elsewhere.

Simple solution remove the RFTs and get a decent drive. Where I've perhaps scored an advantage, for proving the problem, I've still got my RFT wheel set and have fitted them several times over 40k miles, the same issues come back as soon as I get the conditions which caused the original problems. So not in the mind, not wear, or mileage. (I stayed with the same wheel size for the experiment). So nothing to do with the actual steering, which at one time I thought was faulty. Got the garage to check it all out, they did an alignment (KDS), also checked it all out twice myself for loose components.

Now we know BMW are tweaking the EPS, I've read up on this and there is no reason they can't get things tighter, for centre feel, straightline stability and even side wind stability. Controlling those parameters are well inside the EPS design for good steering, but... they still have to mask the corruption caused by the run-flat tyres. So personally I feel, until the elephant is removed from the room we may, due to our personal use and conditions, find we have limitations. Not for all, because some drivers won't be pushing the boundaries. Also some car specs' and wheel sizes (even tyre make) will feel better than other setups.

I feel for you guys, but this time around I'm waiting, based on what really is happening, not the guess work I had last time around. BTW, my car now drives like a mature E39 for feel and fluidity. I don't have to even think of the steering these days, just drive and enjoy. But if I went out into my workshop and fitted the RFT shod wheel set, I'd be back to square one.

HighlandPete

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by eaglesrest

Update on switch from rfts to winter non-rfts. Steering is much improved. Best way I can describe it is before I had to grip the steering wheel, at low speed to make sure it didn't suddenly veer on an adverse camber, at motorway speeds to stop it twitching and to avoid having to make minor corrections. Now I 'hold' the steering wheel. It doesn't veer off and doesn't need corrections. In fact even on motorways with camber, I can let go of the wheel and the car drives in the direction it was last pointed.

The missus also commented how the ride was smoother and quieter. Hmmmm. It's still not perfect, but much much better. I haven't tested on the limit handling.

What I was expecting to read, to me, supports my experience in the 330d. I personally don't think BMW have really got to grips with the run-flats, even after the years of experience. My test drives, as I've commented on the forums, left me feeling the run-flat was still compromising the drive.

"Grip" vs. "Hold" the wheel: To me run-flats need lots more concentration once you are off of really good surfaces, particularly if there is severe road crown, ever changing cambers and surface flaws. You even feel you are fighting the steering... rather than in control.

"Not perfect": I'm sure a decent performance tyre of the optimum wheel size (not sure what size that is yet) will be near on perfect.

HighlandPete

[bimmernic]

Originally Posted by juztinl

bimmernic. when was your F10 manufactured?

May 2010

Originally Posted by morkjt

How do i check my idrive version?

No idea, I am afraid. With the new iDrive version, when the PDC is engaged, there are now two graphical representations (car images), the smaller one on the right side of the screen showing the entire car and the larger one in the centre of the screen showing the front half (when in Drive) or the rear half (when in Reverse). Both are oriented North-South (vertical) instead of East-West (horizontal) in the previous iDrive version.

Originally Posted by bimmernic

Just had my iDrive software updated (version 38.2(?)). Thought that I was imagining things at first but after two weeks of driving and checking that the tyre pressure remained the same throughout, my impressions are that:

(a) the steering has more heft than before;

(b) the steering feels loads up under braking and lightens under acceleration - never noticed/felt this before;

(c) the tendency to wander, requiring constant, minor, steering corrections when going straight at > 80 km/h has been reduced significantly; this makes it less jittery/tiring to drive on highways; and

(d) the self-centering function is more pronounced than before.

I am on 18" non-RFTs and M-Sport suspension. YMMV.

(e) there is also less slop/vagueness/free-play in the straight ahead position

[bimmernic]

Originally Posted by pharding

Steering Improvement in the Current F10 Iteration

... I assume that it is just a software modification, but that is conjecture on my part. Compared to the prior loaner cars with a lot more miles and other 535's that I test drove in the summer, the steering on the new 535 loaner does not feel sloppy when driving straight. The steering feels very similar to my 550i with DHP and IAS. Hopefully BMW has implemented a fix to the sloppy when driving straight feel that so many people criticize the base F10 steering system.

pharding, that was what I felt was improved with the new iDrive iteration. The steering used to feel "rubbery" within a few degrees of the straight ahead position. It now responds more positively.

[bimmernic]

@ eaglesrest
@ HighlandPete

I switched to non-RFTs on the day I took delivery so I believe the improvement to the steering from the revised iDrive version would also have a similar impact to the RFT shod cars (?)

[bm323]

Originally Posted by bimmernic

Just had my iDrive software updated (version 38.2(?)). Thought that I was imagining things at first but after two weeks of driving and checking that the tyre pressure remained the same throughout, my impressions are that:

(a) the steering has more heft than before;

(b) the steering feels loads up under braking and lightens under acceleration - never noticed/felt this before;

(c) the tendency to wander, requiring constant, minor, steering corrections when going straight at > 80 km/h has been reduced significantly; this makes it less jittery/tiring to drive on highways; and

(d) the self-centering function is more pronounced than before.

I am on 18" non-RFTs and M-Sport suspension. YMMV.

Hi, I didn't know they have an update. Can you confirm whether it's version 38.2? The wandering has been reduced, meaning there's still some?

[JOHNBMWM5]

I had run flats on the 635 D Sport and my X6 35D Sport, NO such problems at any speed, this "Run Flats" to blame is rubbish to me. Yes in icey conditions they are poor and hard, but they are not designed to run on ice!!!.

I test drove the M-Sport 3.0 diesel f10 and thrashed it in high winds, and it drove great NO steering problems such as tracking white lines, road cambers, pulling anywhere, bla bla bla, NOTHING and I mean at 125 MPH.
I think your problems would be Tyre Pressures rather than run-flats, they do not corner like PS2's admitted but then they are not designed for that either. If you want sports car handling then sport tyres are the way forward IMO. The f10 5 series is not a sports car period, it's a saloon/estate.

[kiasu king]

Hi Bimmernic,

HOw did you get your idrive updated at PML? Is it part of the first time service or you made special arrangement for it to be done?

Tyre pressures? You're having a giraffe? Sorry but you're completely wrong.

I didn't have a problem with the rft's until I swapped them to non rft's for winter. There is a marked improvement.

I'm guessing you don't have any direct experience of the contrast to relate to otherwise you wouldn't have posted what you did.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by eaglesrest

Tyre pressures? You're having a giraffe? Sorry but you're completely wrong.

I didn't have a problem with the rft's until I swapped them to non rft's for winter. There is a marked improvement.

I'm guessing you don't have any direct experience of the contrast to relate to otherwise you wouldn't have posted what you did.

You are right in that I do not have the experience of "Changing from one to the other" however I have owned and driven (in the UK) cars with and without run-flats, yes they can be harder and more unforgiving depending on tyre pressures IMO.
I have test driven the M-Sport f10 at high speeds and found the steering in "Normal mode" light but not wandering, set up in Sport mode with steering and suspension ONLY, it drove great .
I have found on my M3 E90 setting up my tyre pressures different than recommended the cars handling has been transformed, prohaps trying a change of pressures just may solve your problems, however if I have the symptoms that many have described here, I would NOT have ordered the 550i M Sport at all.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by eaglesrest

Tyre pressures? You're having a giraffe? Sorry but you're completely wrong.

I didn't have a problem with the rft's until I swapped them to non rft's for winter. There is a marked improvement.

I'm guessing you don't have any direct experience of the contrast to relate to otherwise you wouldn't have posted what you did.

You are right in that I do not have the experience of "Changing from one to the other on the same car" however I have owned and driven (in the UK) cars with and without run-flats, yes they can be harder and more unforgiving depending on tyre pressures IMO.
I have test driven the M-Sport f10 at high speeds and found the steering in "Normal mode" light but not wandering, set up in Sport mode with steering and suspension ONLY, it drove great .
I have found on my M3 E90 setting up my tyre pressures different than recommended the cars handling has been transformed, prohaps trying a change of pressures just may solve your problems, however if I have the symptoms that many have described here, I would NOT have ordered the 550i M Sport at all.

[bimmernic]

Originally Posted by bm323

Hi, I didn't know they have an update. Can you confirm whether it's version 38.2? The wandering has been reduced, meaning there's still some?

iDrive version - unable to confirm. That's what the CSA said and even he didn't appear to be too sure about it. For all practical purposes, the wandering's gone - or at least I do not notice it anymore.

Originally Posted by kiasu king

Hi Bimmernic,

HOw did you get your idrive updated at PML? Is it part of the first time service or you made special arrangement for it to be done?

When I put the car in for servicing, I mentioned that I was having some issues with (a) selecting the iPod function from the favourites button and (b) some lag between depressing the iDrive controller to end a call and the call actually ending. When I got the car back, the CSA mentioned that the issues should now be resolved (not quite) since the iDrive software had been updated.

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by bimmernic

May 2010



No idea, I am afraid. With the new iDrive version, when the PDC is engaged, there are now two graphical representations (car images), the smaller one on the right side of the screen showing the entire car and the larger one in the centre of the screen showing the front half (when in Drive) or the rear half (when in Reverse). Both are oriented North-South (vertical) instead of East-West (horizontal) in the previous iDrive version.



(e) there is also less slop/vagueness/free-play in the straight ahead position

Very interesting, Ill check my PDC to see which version I have. I think mine is the updated one you describe, but mine is a June car.
Did the dude say there were steering changes? Or was it your changing to non-RFTs at the same time that was the cause of the improvement?