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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum 550i vs xi
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      06-10-2010, 01:42 PM   #1
ruxp
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550i vs xi

Self-explanatory. I was sold on the xi, but now I'm moving to Northern VA and I'm not sure that I'll need the xDrive there.

However, I'm also not sure that the 400 hp TTV8 can put power down to the rear wheels efficiently without an LSD.

Thoughts?
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      06-14-2010, 08:46 PM   #2
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all wheel is great for powering through turns on dry pavement, i am getting a 550xi for october or a 535xi dont know yet.
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      06-14-2010, 09:11 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzles View Post
all wheel is great for powering through turns on dry pavement, i am getting a 550xi for october or a 535xi dont know yet.
Don't understand the physics in what you are suggesting. Vectors in a turn for the front wheels are more or less perpendicular to direction of wheel travel. Rotation force works against that, doesn't it?
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      06-14-2010, 09:13 PM   #4
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I'm personally most concerned about launching.. will the 400hp be too much power for the rear wheels to handle in 1st & 2nd without an LSD? Especially if hp/tq is increased via a flash or a tune..
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      06-14-2010, 09:42 PM   #5
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xi for sure

I currently have a 335xi w/ Dinan stage 2.
No way this car would launch the same w/2wd.
Much safer & secure w/xdrive for sure.
I have my order in for 550xi w/ adaptive drive.
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      06-14-2010, 11:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raleedy View Post
Don't understand the physics in what you are suggesting. Vectors in a turn for the front wheels are more or less perpendicular to direction of wheel travel. Rotation force works against that, doesn't it?
Exactly. 'Grip' and 'traction' are 2 different things as well.

If you want traction(not to be confused with grip) on a wet/icy (mountainous) road from a standstill:Get the Xi.

Otherwise just don't. The Xi also always is heavier. 0-60 times for the rwd should be faster fwiw in real life.

I recall the 0-60/100/120mph accellerationtest somewhere on the net between a heavy rwd Ferrari 599GTB vs a 4wd Lamborghini Murcielago: The Ferrari won from a standstill.
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      06-14-2010, 11:46 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Hood View Post
Exactly. 'Grip' and 'traction' are 2 different things as well.

If you want traction(not to be confused with grip) on a wet/icy (mountainous) road from a standstill:Get the Xi.

Otherwise just don't. The Xi also always is heavier. 0-60 times for the rwd should be faster fwiw in real life.

I recall the 0-60/100/120mph accellerationtest somewhere on the net between a heavy rwd Ferrari 599GTB vs a 4wd Lamborghini Murcielago: The Ferrari won from a standstill.
The difference is that the Ferrari has a limited slip differential, while the BMW does not. Thus it has no problem hooking up with both rear wheels, whereas the BMW will only be sending power to a single rear wheel at launch, resulting in a lot of wheelspin. (Plus, the Murcielago also weighs more afaik).

I have a 335xi currently and off the line, it's much faster and easier to launch than a 335i (in spite of weighing more). Real world 0-60 times for the xi will definitely be faster on the 550 as well, but that's not a huge concern to me.. as long as I can still get a good launch and corner decently.

Apparently BMW is providing an electronic LSD with the 550i that activates when DSC is off, but I'm not 100% sure how this works..
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      06-15-2010, 01:18 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruxp View Post
The difference is that the Ferrari has a limited slip differential, while the BMW does not. Thus it has no problem hooking up with both rear wheels, whereas the BMW will only be sending power to a single rear wheel at launch, resulting in a lot of wheelspin. (Plus, the Murcielago also weighs more afaik).

I have a 335xi currently and off the line, it's much faster and easier to launch than a 335i (in spite of weighing more). Real world 0-60 times for the xi will definitely be faster on the 550 as well, but that's not a huge concern to me.. as long as I can still get a good launch and corner decently.

Apparently BMW is providing an electronic LSD with the 550i that activates when DSC is off, but I'm not 100% sure how this works..
An lsd actually is not really necessary for 0-60 sprints in a STRAIGHT LINE, of which we are talking about I assume..
Look at the 550i 407BHP, just as fast as a E90 M3 (0-60)which weighs less and has 13BHP(EU) more + a real lsd. I know it's al about the tremendous torque, but irl, who cares? Or you want to do some dragraces with it?


Anyway, The Ferrari weighs more than the Murc.

Your 335i also weighs a lot less than a 550i. And with Dinan it's pretty fast(before the M3 I owned a E90 335i 6MT stock, great car)

And yes my 535i has the same electronic 'lsd' like the 135i already has. It's almost a real mechanical lsd(I come from a E90 M3), and it does do the job(in a bend)

Anyway, not to be rude, I also live in a country with sometimes 50 centimetres of snow in one day, but still....get some proper wintertyres.

A 5series already has too much weight to carry, why overload it with X drive?
The near 50/50 layout will also be worse...

No offence whatsoever.

Cheers
Robin
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      06-17-2010, 12:23 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Hood View Post
An lsd actually is not really necessary for 0-60 sprints in a STRAIGHT LINE, of which we are talking about I assume..
Look at the 550i 407BHP, just as fast as a E90 M3 (0-60)which weighs less and has 13BHP(EU) more + a real lsd. I know it's al about the tremendous torque, but irl, who cares? Or you want to do some dragraces with it?


Anyway, The Ferrari weighs more than the Murc.

Your 335i also weighs a lot less than a 550i. And with Dinan it's pretty fast(before the M3 I owned a E90 335i 6MT stock, great car)

And yes my 535i has the same electronic 'lsd' like the 135i already has. It's almost a real mechanical lsd(I come from a E90 M3), and it does do the job(in a bend)

Anyway, not to be rude, I also live in a country with sometimes 50 centimetres of snow in one day, but still....get some proper wintertyres.

A 5series already has too much weight to carry, why overload it with X drive?
The near 50/50 layout will also be worse...

No offence whatsoever.

Cheers
Robin
But your 335 was stock, and so is your 535i. Put a JB3 in it, and you're more likely than not going to be chirping the tires on launches. That's my main concern - I'm most likely going to be tuning my 550i, and 500+ rwhp + one-wheel drive seems like a bad combination to me.

But then, if the e-LSD actually does its job, I guess it'd be a non-issue.

You're right about the Murcielago being lighter than the 599, my bad.
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      06-17-2010, 03:21 AM   #10
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there are clips on youtube with the 550 launching full-throttle. judge for yourself. i think it'd be just fine.
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      06-17-2010, 02:28 PM   #11
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dual clutch?

After driving a 550i w/sport tranny I overheard a BMW rep say that this tranny is really a dual clutch.
After feeling how smooth it shifts,I almost believe it.
Could it be & BMW just keeping mum? Unbelievably good car.
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      06-17-2010, 02:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernpep View Post
After driving a 550i w/sport tranny I overheard a BMW rep say that this tranny is really a dual clutch.
After feeling how smooth it shifts,I almost believe it.
Could it be & BMW just keeping mum? Unbelievably good car.
According the ZF, who builds this transmission, it's got three multi-plate clutches, and a "direct engine connection", which I believe means no torque converter. I'm no expert on transmissions though, so hopefully someone who is can weigh in here.

This is ZF's product page:
http://www.zf.com/corporate/en/produ...nsmission.html

I *think*, based on what I've read here that this is conceptually similar to a dual-clutch system, but with an added advantage of being able to skip multiple gears.

They also claim a 200ms shift time, which is roughly consistent with many dual-clutch implementations. When I drove the 550i, I thought it WAS a dual-clutch system, having previously driven an Audi S4 with their S-Tronic system.

Either way, it's a very impressive transmission...
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      06-17-2010, 09:50 PM   #13
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Is the sport transmission actually a different unit from the regular AT, or just programmed differently, with paddle shifting?
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      06-17-2010, 11:21 PM   #14
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After trolling around in their product pages more, I find where they mention the torque converter system. This in fact makes it essentially an automatic transmission, not a auto-manual like the dual-clutch. It's dramatically better than any other auto I've driven before though. Good enough that I'm not sure what I'm really giving up by not having a dual-clutch system.

I will add a disclaimer right here and now though that I'm no expert, I've only driven the 550i once, and a car with a proper dual-clutch system (an Audi S4 with the S-Tronic transmission) twice.

So other than those facts taken directly from the ZF site, I have no idea what I'm talking about :-)
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