[scott135i]

Originally Posted by combatbmw

I took off tune today, and tomorrow putting stock downpipes on and dynoing
Just for shitz see what my car does stock.

here is what I do stock tune with downpipes and Bms with downpipes:
85-90 degree day. Tomorrow Ill be dynoing bone stock, see what happens. I wanna see what the downpipes gains are.

Maybe I am not reading this right... but it looks like the tune is working perfectly, and the fall off rate at high RPM matches the OEM tuning.....

[scott135i]

Originally Posted by PhilT3

Question with respect - how much racing and and engine tuning experience do you guys have? Has anyone ever built and or tuned a motor / car? Just trying to understand the background of the community here.

-Fully built and ported 13B Single Turbo RX7
-Built and supercharged Z4M
-FBO N54 135i with custom cobb racemap dyno tuning

[SacTownN54]

Originally Posted by scott135i

Maybe I am not reading this right... but it looks like the tune is working perfectly, and the fall off rate at high RPM matches the OEM tuning.....

I was thinking the same thing Scott. With the BMS piggy, the HP and TQ drop after 4,500 - 5,000 RPM, but it mirrors what the stock motor does at the same RPMs. Should the BMS piggy depart from the stock curve and continue to make HP and TQ gains throughout the entire power band?

I admit that I am way out of my league on this stuff so forgive me if I am completely wrong, but I don't see the real issue here. Obviously more power is better, but if the stock numbers drop off at a certain RPM, then wouldn't it be reasonable to suspect a similar drop off event even with a piggy?

____________________________

- Frame up resto on a '65 Chevy half-ton pickup with built 400ci small block
- 1993 Chevy Suburban 454ci big block rebuild
- 1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 straight six rebuild and suspension mods
- 2010 335i convertible JB4, DCI, OCC

[scott135i]

Originally Posted by SacTownN54

I was thinking the same thing Scott. With the BMS piggy, the HP and TQ drop after 4,500 - 5,000 RPM, but it mirrors what the stock motor does at the same RPMs. Should the BMS piggy depart from the stock curve and continue to make HP and TQ gains throughout the entire power band?

I admit that I am way out of my league on this stuff so forgive me if I am completely wrong, but I don't see the real issue here. Obviously more power is better, but if the stock numbers drop off at a certain RPM, then wouldn't it be reasonable to suspect a similar drop off event even with a piggy?

Correct - the S1 is meant to scale the factory tuning up, relatively proportionally. If on some cars the gains up top are higher than others, so be it based on that specific car, ecu, conditions in environment, fuel, break in, ect. So many variances are possible. Now if the tuning causes the numbers to drop below stock levels, I would consider that a matter for further analysis.

[combatbmw]

Originally Posted by scott135i

Maybe I am not reading this right... but it looks like the tune is working perfectly, and the fall off rate at high RPM matches the OEM tuning.....

Yes.

Like I said we eliminated it being downpipes and eliminated that it was tune related.
It's the car. So far only 1 2014 didnt didn't have the drop off and it was my friends car.
His pull started at 4k because car kept wanting to shift at lower rpms.

I dynod today bone stock.
Downpipes vs stock is a pretty significant gain.

Peak but mainly after 4k 30+ HP and torque

[PhilT3]

If the limiting factors are things like valvetrain, port size and shape, displacement, cam profile, etc.... Essentially, the actual engine hardware design.. Then I don't see how ANY tune could change the power curve more than simply raise it across the entire range. Ultimately software can only change so much and at some point the limits of the hardware will be met.

[PhilT3]

Originally Posted by combatbmw

Thats what we are trying to figure out. The power curve.

3 Mustangs, 03 gt with 250 shot NOS full drag suspension.
04 SVT Kenny bell 2.4 641rwhp 91 octane
08 Shelby gt500 750+rwhp Whipple supercharger.

what about u?

Been around racing, engine building and modifying, fabrication, etc... Since i was 10. Though very little experience with turbo forced induction.
I've had my hands in MANY projects. Lots of drag suspension fabrication.
Some of my personal cars have been:
1976 Caddy Seville / NA 502 / consistent mid 12's (first car)
1987 Firebird formula / 383 stroker with 175 shot of spray / consistent low 11's. Best of 10.89 at Cecil MD
1999 Z28 / built LS1 346ci. / 3800 stall converter / 411's / full drag suspension and running gear / consistent mid 10's with best of 10.2
Currently building 2011 Z06 / considering other platforms (911, Viper, GTR, C7?)

[scott135i]

Originally Posted by combatbmw

Yes.

Like I said we eliminated it being downpipes and eliminated that it was tune related.
It's the car. So far only 1 2014 didnt didn't have the drop off and it was my friends car.
His pull started at 4k because car kept wanting to shift at lower rpms.

I dynod today bone stock.
Downpipes vs stock is a pretty significant gain.

Peak but mainly after 4k 30+ HP and torque

Weird to start a pull at 4k... maybe that explains it....?

[ARC550]

This car needs a real tune!
It's a damn 4.3L v8 with 2 turbos that is loosing power!
Someone please save this platform! A proper tune that will override the system should be able to broaden up the power band on a more consistent level. There is no way or how this should be happening... The real question is. BMW knows this yet they implemented it... Why?

[combatbmw]

Originally Posted by scott135i

Weird to start a pull at 4k... maybe that explains it....?

Yes Car kept switching gears when he punched it at 2500. So they had to take it to 4k for it not to switch gears on the dyno lol

[combatbmw]

Originally Posted by ARadoncic550

This car needs a real tune!
It's a damn 4.3L v8 with 2 turbos that is loosing power!
Someone please save this platform! A proper tune that will override the system should be able to broaden up the power band on a more consistent level. There is no way or how this should be happening... The real question is. BMW knows this yet they implemented it... Why?

Not enough cars with dynos sheets showing the loss, only mine and yours.

I spoke to Terry, he said he if continues to see this issues with the 2014 DME He may come up with a soluiton, but 1st things 1st, people that bought his Stage1 . Go dyno the car! Life is life, things may prevent you from doing it, but make some time, We dont drive Civics here, this is an enthusiast car, our cars are an escape from work/family etc. Makes us happy, placebo.

I'm the ceo of a Big corporation, and still make time for things like this. Why? Because its fun. My life is far from fun. If I sit in my car and I press the gas, then it darts off fast... I get happy, simple right?

IF 2014 guys want stage 2s, more power, buy the product, and go dyno it.

Tuners need feedback, 2 cars isn't enough for him to waste his time making a stage 2. if we get 10 cars all doing the same shit, im sure he will want to, WHY? Because he will know there will be a return of investment.

if 2/10000 cars are losing power then why would he do it?

make sense? i bet it does



PS: You dont need his tune to dyno, just a 2014, Do you have a 2014? Go dyno! If your car lossing power / falling on its face at 5200 rpm. Post it!
Then maybe, you will have a solution with BMS.

List of loss so far due to DME being fucking retarded:
1.Combat *me
2.Arch

[PhilT3]

The engine may simply not have the physical ability to have a different power curve due to its design.

[scott135i]

Originally Posted by PhilT3

The engine may simply not have the physical ability to have a different power curve due to its design.

The engine can definitely have different curves Phil. The BMS stage 1 tunes however are meant to increase power a la maintaining the stock curve for the most part. The curves and tuning are limited by hardware obviously, i.e. these turbos and fuel system runs out of steam at higher RPMs, unlike the setup in the S63 which still loses power at higher RPMs, but less aggressively slow. Turbo engines in general follow that mantra.

The stage 2 tunes have control over more variables and have the ability to have more influence across the powerband. On the N63, there is less ECU control than BMS has on other setups, like the N54 and N55 where they have considerably more control.

[Alan l.]

You guys ever consider that BMW designed the power curve this way for a reason? Like preventing it from blowing up if i runs peak boost at redline?

Lots of turbo cars have a similar curve like this. If you want to see nothing but a uphill climb then you need a NA or supercharged car.

Right now the east coast folks are dealing with another 8-12" of snow/ice so you guys that can't live with having 6000hp car will just have to be a little more patient for us to get a dyno.

Alan

[Alan l.]

Originally Posted by scott135i

Weird to start a pull at 4k... maybe that explains it....?

I would think you are on to something here.

Combat can go do some runs with his friend to see who wins. According to the dyno combat should lose badly up top if his friends car really is making all that power after 5500rpm.

If i had to guess combats car would kill the other car and the dyno wasn't done properly on it. I don't understand both cars are sport automatics but why one would keep downshifting during a pull while the other doesn't. Using Manual mode should prevent it from changing gears.

Alan

[scott135i]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

I would think you are on to something here.

Combat can go do some runs with his friend to see who wins. According to the dyno combat should lose badly up top if his friends car really is making all that power after 5500rpm.

If i had to guess combats car would kill the other car and the dyno wasn't done properly on it. I don't understand both cars are sport automatics but why one would keep downshifting during a pull while the other doesn't. Using Manual mode should prevent it from changing gears.

Alan

Correct... user error quite possibly? They should do a few pulls at 60 starting in 3rd gear.... that'll tell very quickly.

[badblack550xi]

don't press the button under the accelerator and it wont switch gears.... this thread is 2 funny.

[combatbmw]

Originally Posted by scott135i

Correct... user error quite possibly? They should do a few pulls at 60 starting in 3rd gear.... that'll tell very quickly.

1.Terry was in the car doing the dyno.

2. To Alan, Turbo cars power/spool is all peak. Supercharge cars are more all range, but less up top.

I had a twin turbo Z06, Shelby Cobra, SVT Cobra, Turbo s2000.
Both cobras had Kenny bell superchargers.

So im familiar with the way it should work.

A v8 twin turbo car should not be losing all that power after 5k. BMW designed it to do that probably to prevent something bad from happening. Thats what all manufatures do.

Except in our case, its difficult to fix because of tuning options.

So Alan, You mean to tell me your ok with the power cut off of over 50hp after 5k?

You realize when you race, you will only get your max power in 1st gear, rest will be shifting at 6500rpm, drops off to about 5k or more (never really paid attention)

So Its safe to say I have a 350rwhp stock car while racing. And a 400rwhp car tuned.

Because when the power is being used, you will never see your peak hp at 5100 rpms. only 1st, or on a roll for 2 seconds, then the rest of the gears = retarded.

Am I missing something here?

Ive been the test bitch for most of the n63tu products. So I'd suggest you all with a N63tu and N63 - go dyno your cars and get boost / af ratio looked at before typing away here.


Im not a fan of losing 40% of my boost after 5k. Because thats whats happening.

You take risks when your a car performance enthusiast.
If you take care of your car and don't abuse it, everything should be fine.

It seems like we finally have some 550i guys on the board and tuning / playing around with their cars, thats good. Thats what gets companys to make shit for us.

Thats why their is no intake / tunes etc. Im doing my Personal best to help the community out by dumping my car off for weeks at a time for companys to develop products for it. Intern helping everyone on the forums and off.

If others besides me did some dynos, make calls to companys, maybe we would have more shit.

Black pretty much paved the way for the 2011-2013 n63.
How many cars with that tune on the forum went and dyno'd etc. Very lil to none.

Why is that important?
Shows the tuners from bms to dinan that people are playing with these cars.

Simple Market startegy.
They see interest they develop new shit.

So far I know of 5-10 members who got the n63tu bms tune, only 2 have dyno'd.

No time? make time?.

Because I can think of at least two members on this forum, who were all over the forums asking for the new release / Emailing Terry ETC...
Then you get tune and call it a day.

NO interest in cars performance and how it reacted to the tune besides butt dyno?

Help the tuner / company by dynoing your car and providing feedback, so they can make changes to the product?

WE DO NOTHING WE GET NOTHING.
From paper filters, to Harley Davidson RPM Powrcurves.


Yesterday I took the day off as part of an agreement that I had with 2 companys to take my car to EAS and get a dyno with stock downpipes. For before and after vs Catless.
Also needed Stock downpipes on for the 17th where my car goes in for a week for a newly designed exhaust system for the 2014+ since there isn't a single company right now that makes a full length system for it. *1st year slip on design 2011-13 Bolts to downpipes.


Sorry for my rant.
But Honestly I feel like im the lone wolf here. Besides Badblack, no one is doing anything to help get our aftermarket going.

[combatbmw]

Originally Posted by badblack550xi

don't press the button under the accelerator and it wont switch gears.... this thread is 2 funny.

Car was doing it anyways, Terry was dynoing the car.

[ARC550]

Guys!
If you want a 500WHP/550WTQ car with a tune lets get some participants!
Simple.. Get a dyno and post it up!! I will volunteer to pay for any dyno for any 2014+ N63TU. PM me and I will send a money order.
We need a solution!
Black and combat have been embassadors of this platform but there is only so much they can do! Let's do this people!

Alan you are nearby lets do this!

[combatbmw]

Originally Posted by ARadoncic550

Guys!
If you want a 500WHP/550WTQ car with a tune lets get some participants!
Simple.. Get a dyno and post it up!! I will volunteer to pay for any dyno for any 2014+ N63TU. PM me and I will send a money order.
We need a solution!
Black and combat have been embassadors of this platform but there is only so much they can do! Let's do this people!

Alan you are nearby lets do this!

I made 461-467 rwhp at 5100. If the car didn't have the DME power off Mode enabled the bms set up as is would probably yeild 485rwhp

And a Stage 2 with timing changes af changes etc would put the car over 500 easy.

But there is no way on earth at a 5100 rpm max power output the car will make any real power. The true question is how much power would it make if the ecu wasn't retarded.

[Alan l.]

Combat,

The problem here is that most 5 series owners don't care to squeeze out every last ounce of hp or drag race at every light like you do. The car is fast enough for me to be honest. Would i like to have more? sure but am I going to jump through hoops trying to get it and putting my family and my safety behind to get it? no I am not. Look up what the roads look like in NYC and see where dyno'ing my car falls in my priority list.

With that said i have no issues with bringing my car to get it dyno'ed but you guys really need to chill out. Can i make time to go? sure. Is it first on my list of things to do. Nope.

This is quite funny considering you guys are b1tching about a car that can pretty much run high 11's or low 12's being too slow...

end rant//

Excuse me but being sick like a dog all week and trapped in my house got me worked up.

Alan