[Jon D]

Originally Posted by MikeTerp

And THAT is the issue. Long-time BMW owners are p.o.'d because for the first time, BMW is forcing you to buy an optional handling package in order to get "BMW-type handling". That is ridiculous and BMW should be ashamed of themselves. The one thing that ANY BMW purchaser always knew in the past was that by buying the car, you were getting a vehicle that would stand up against practically anything. Now, with the 5er "Lexusified" you have to ante up 5 grand to buy a suspension that will actually handle like a BMW. If they pull this crap with the upcoming F30, expect enthusiasts to desert BMW in droves.

I first drove a 530d SE last April and coming from my E92 330d M Sport, I naturally didn't expect it to handle anywhere near as well. However, I was very pleasantly surprised; certainly there was significantly more body roll through the corners and less well damped pithching over bumps, but I felt that both were well controlled and and it was, of course, a far more comfortable ride. I also drove the Jaguar XF, which was pretty impressive, but I didn't think was as good as the F10. Even in SE form, I thought exhibited more than a reasonable degree of "BMW type handling".
I read somewhere that 70% of UK F10 owners are predicted to go for the 520 SE in pretty standard form. For the remaining 30% of us BMW have provided a vast array of optional extras and whilst I agree that some should be included as standard, I think the Adaptive Drive is a completely separate issue.
I don't know exactly how it works, but I imagine that the front and rear roll bars are each in two parts joined by a constantly variable screw-jack, which lengthens or shortens the bar to give varying degrees of stiffness; it can probably also be partially de-coupled in comfort mode. Then there's the constantly variable dampers on each wheel, which all adds up to quite a lot of hardware and that's before you include the multiple sensors, controlling computer and software.
I don't think BMW have any reason to be ashamed of themselves; quite the contrary, I think they should be congratulated for technological innovation.
After all is said and done, you don't have to buy it and if you've lost faith in the brand, just move on and find something that suits your requirements.
I don't want to dampen your hopes, but I wouldn't recommend that you hold your breath in anticipation of massed BMW deserters

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Jon D

I read somewhere that 70% of UK F10 owners are predicted to go for the 520 SE in pretty standard form. For the remaining 30% of us BMW have provided a vast array of optional extras and whilst I agree that some should be included as standard, I think the Adaptive Drive is a completely separate issue.

I don't know exactly how it works, but I imagine that the front and rear roll bars are each in two parts joined by a constantly variable screw-jack, which lengthens or shortens the bar to give varying degrees of stiffness; it can probably also be partially de-coupled in comfort mode. Then there's the constantly variable dampers on each wheel, which all adds up to quite a lot of hardware and that's before you include the multiple sensors, controlling computer and software.

I don't think BMW have any reason to be ashamed of themselves; quite the contrary, I think they should be congratulated for technological innovation.

After all is said and done, you don't have to buy it and if you've lost faith in the brand, just move on and find something that suits your requirements.
I don't want to dampen your hopes, but I wouldn't recommend that you hold your breath in anticipation of massed BMW deserters

Good points, I don't get why folks are slamming BMW for technical innovation and multiple options.

I know for a fact that BMW pricing in the UK for the 520d is deliberately set to get folks into the 5-series, check out the pricing compared to the 320d and see it for yourselves. But that requires cutting a few features, like the Climate Control to basic form.

Adaptive Drive is a brilliant concept, also remember 7-series drivers have had this for years, also the E60/1 could have Dynamic Drive, (the active roll bars), rarer than hen's teeth, but more advanced technology was on its way. The ability to tune a suspension for roll and ride comfort has to be good news for many drivers. We know it will make for a different feel to a car, but get to know its characteristics and it is streets ahead of fixed/passive systems.

As to folks deserting the brand, may I remind the doubters, BMW have lost many 'loyal' folks from the brand, because BMW haven't kept the cars comfortable enough. Perhaps BMW have listened and the main market is not the enthusiast who wants a sports car on the road, but for drivers who appreciate a wider set of driving parameters, including comfort, in a car that has a sporty edge.

I'm sure BMW will support the enthusiast with performance parts, as they do with the smaller 1 and 3-series models. Makes absolute sense to me.

HighlandPete

[MikeTerp]

Originally Posted by delvek

MikeTerp, Pharding and others like you are in the vast minority as the success of the F10 will clearly show. Not everyone likes a Big Mac but its still the #1 selling sandwich worldwide. McDonalds realizes there will be those that either dislike the particular sandwich, or maybe McDonalds itself but for decades it continues to sell Big Mac's.

Conclusion, the F10 is STILL the King of the Road and to pack all your toys up and go home would be settling for 2nd best, I understand someone must be 2nd but as for me and my home we will be 1st with a F10 550i in the driveway waiting anxiously for the next Beast that those incredible engineers in Bavaria do so well.

For me, this arguement has concluded, I am just one on a very large and active forum so my comments wont be missed, but at this point I feel like I am beating this horse to death.

My final advice, if you dont like it dont buy it ... someone else will. I am sure there are forums somewhere that have Audi, Lexus or Mercedes owners that sit around and bash the F10.

ps. Pete, great comparo review, I only wish you had the 550 in there too.

Delvek, you are missing the point. I am not arguing, nor have I read any others arguing that the F10 won't be a smashing sales success. There are plenty of people out there with money who will care only about "buying the roundel" and could care less how their car handles.

If you read this and other message boards there are plenty of people complaining about the handling of the standard suspension F10 - a situation that seems to be alleviated when one purchases the optional dynamic handling suspension. In the past, if you bought a BMW, any BMW, you were virtually assured of having an excellently handling car. Some people wanted even more and bought the optional sport package, but even the standard tires and suspension were as good or better than most other cars on the road. I never recall reading this many complaints about the standard suspension E39, E60, E46, E90, etc. My point and that of others is that ANY BMW should handling excellently without having to buy an optional suspension. That's it. My other comment was that if BMW also decides to Lexify the F30 and demand extra money for decent handling, then ENTHUSIASTS will be much more incentivized to consider other brands whereas in the past they never would.

[Begood]

I need an advice regarding the possible choice :

1.Choose 528i and fit it with almost everything i want, except Adaptive Drive, which includes Dynamic Drive(active anti-roll bars) and Dynamic Damper Control(it`s available for all models) since AD is only available for 535\55i and 530\5d. The 528i (with DDC, but without AD and hence without Dynamic Drive) will be October production as stated by my dealer, so i`ll get it very soon.
2. Wait for 535i till the 1st-2nd quarter of the next year as quotes ended for my local dealer, and then get AD.
3.Also, I can opt for 530d( can be fitted with AD) and get it delivered in few monthes.

Some facts: that will be my first BMW and first my car O.o. My local roads are very bumpy and full of imperfections. For the most time my driving will take place in the city. Comfort has a priority over sport.

Does AD worth waiting? Or 530d isn`t that noisy and vibrant as diesels engines might be, so it could be a good alternative?


Thanks in advance!

PS: Reading HighlandPete`s magnificent review didn`t help me to make a decision.

[BrunoT]

Originally Posted by delvek

Let me clarify by using the world icon of Le Bigmac ...

If I never had a Bigmac before and wanted to try it but was nervous if it tasted as good as a, lets see, Whopper and I asked three people what a Bigmac was like, one never had a Bigmac before, one had one once at one location, and another eats Bigmacs everyday across the same region that the inquiring lived in ... which opinions are valid and worthy?

In relation to this thread ...
1. The man who has never had a Bigmac but provides an opinion is found all over this forum as the same man who offers his own opinions on a car he has never driven, pretty absurd but occurs all the time.

2. The man who had one Bigmac at one location is the also found here as well. He's the guy that drove an F10 once, down one stretch of road, most probably in a controlled environment with a salesmen sitting next to him, if not, the driver is overly cautious not to incur and damages, etc.

3. Then there is the guy who eats Bigmacs everyday across the region that the inquiring will be dining in. He is the owner of the F10, drives everyday, is comfortable with his car and applies it in all sorts of settings.

On this forum, overwhelming, folks in group 3 praise the F10. So I ask you, which opinion are you going to put stock in, for me I can care less what 1 and 2 have to say.

This may be a little harsh but I have been a fairly active poster on this forum since the day I considered trading up to the F10 550, at this point the daily posting by folks pounding on some issues of the F10 that they deem problematic is getting nauseating to the point that it tastes like eating a Bigmac with rancid meat.

Hmmm, think I will drive my Bavarian Beast to the local McD's and order a Bigmac cause they taste good.

Let me translate that:

1. I own one, so it must be great, and anyone who differs is a douchebag.

2. You don't own one, so you have no right to express an opinion on them, other than to congratulate me on having the good sense to have purchased one. This is despite the fact that every day we have to make judgements based on things we have never done or have done only infrequently. (This thinking follows along the same lines as as if you are not the president you have no right to opine on national policy. Or if you are not in the NFL you have no right to criticise the coaches and players. Not a doctor? Then don't dare question what your doctor tells you. Don't know the group of youths stalking you for 3 blocks at 3am personally and decide to duck into the nearest police precint just in case? Then you're a bigot to assume they're trying to rob you, etc, etc)

3. I happen to like the luxury over the sports aspects, and don't mind the changes. So if you don't like the loss of steering feel you're a douche'.

End of Translation.


Ok, I happen to agree that the car is likely fantastic. I personally have become more interested in things other than ultimate steering feel and sold my BMWs, but at BMW prices I assume they want everything to be great. But this is a forum for BMW enthusiasts. If you eliminate input from those who don't own the particular cars, in the particular versions being discussed, then it's going to be a ghost town. Many are probably basing their "criticism" on professional reviews they've read, so they're not completely talking out of their arses. If people who drive cars and evaluate them for a living have issues, maybe there's something to it. It would be a real shame if the car brand with the best steering feel in a sedan lost that. Especially when you pay top dollar for that reputation. It sure isn't for the reliability.

To each his own. When it comes to personal tastes how can there even be a "right answer"?

[BrunoT]

Originally Posted by MikeTerp

And THAT is the issue. Long-time BMW owners are p.o.'d because for the first time, BMW is forcing you to buy an optional handling package in order to get "BMW-type handling". That is ridiculous and BMW should be ashamed of themselves. The one thing that ANY BMW purchaser always knew in the past was that by buying the car, you were getting a vehicle that would stand up against practically anything. Now, with the 5er "Lexusified" you have to ante up 5 grand to buy a suspension that will actually handle like a BMW. If they pull this crap with the upcoming F30, expect enthusiasts to desert BMW in droves.

Good point! And the best thing in the past was that the sport package gave a nice balance of ride/handling, better looks, and was a relative "bargain" in terms of price. Now to expect the best handling available you almost have to surrender to the "price is no object" thinking they want you to.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by brucec32

Good point! And the best thing in the past was that the sport package gave a nice balance of ride/handling, better looks, and was a relative "bargain" in terms of price. Now to expect the best handling available you almost have to surrender to the "price is no object" thinking they want you to.

If you like it "sporty", the F10 has the M-Sport suspension which is cheap. As to why the States doesn't have this option, you would have to ask BMWNA I suppose.

ps There are forummers who find the standard suspension fine and if I recall correctly, the standard suspension is superior to adaptive drive's normal mode (without taking into account AD's active anti-roll).

[EdM5]

Originally Posted by Begood

I need an advice regarding the possible choice :

...... My local roads are very bumpy and full of imperfections. For the most time my driving will take place in the city. Comfort has a priority over sport.

Does AD worth waiting?

Begood, definitely opt for adative drive.

Keep in mind that adaptive drive is not just an option to choose from different modes (sport, normal, comfort), but basically a whole different next gen. Suspension technology.
It is also a dynamic system in which the suspension (within any mode) is adjusted continuously.
Check:
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...ive_drive.html

I guess, if you live in a place with smooth roads (like Singapore), you can do without it, but in Ukraine AD will improve comfort very much.

[Jon D]

After one week and 400 miles on Scottish country roads in my 535d M Sport, I can thoroughly recommend the Adaptive Drive and Sport Auto options.
Before the F10 I had an E92 330d M Sport on 19" rims; it was a fantastic car, but I had begun to tire of the crashing over minor road imperfections.
Now I can select comfort or normal over rough stuff and sport for fun through the corners; this is pretty much my preferred mode. I haven't tried sport+ yet, but will do so when I've done about 1,500 miles.
My only slight reservation is that you have to consciously work the steering wheel to keep it in a straight line, but I'm hoping that will be eliminated, or at least significantly reduced by upgrading to 19 or 20 inch rims.
Any opinions on that latter point would be most welcome.

[EdM5]

Originally Posted by Jon D

After one week and 400 miles on Scottish country roads in my 535d M Sport, I can thoroughly recommend the Adaptive Drive and Sport Auto options.
Before the F10 I had an E92 330d M Sport on 19" rims; it was a fantastic car, but I had begun to tire of the crashing over minor road imperfections.
Now I can select comfort or normal over rough stuff and sport for fun through the corners; this is pretty much my preferred mode. I haven't tried sport+ yet, but will do so when I've done about 1,500 miles.
My only slight reservation is that you have to consciously work the steering wheel to keep it in a straight line, but I'm hoping that will be eliminated, or at least significantly reduced by upgrading to 19 or 20 inch rims.
Any opinions on that latter point would be most welcome.

Jon D, I will pick up my 535d M with adaptive drive and IAS and the 19" M rims in a few weeks time. I also come from an e92 330d M Sport.
I'll let you know how the car behaves, I will take it to Germany and do some high speed runs.

Btw: do you have IAS as well?

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by EdwinF10

Jon D, I will pick up my 535d M with adaptive drive and IAS and the 19" M rims in a few weeks time. I also come from an e92 330d M Sport.
I'll let you know how the car behaves, I will take it to Germany and do some high speed runs.

Btw: do you have IAS as well?

Thanks for your response.
No, I don't have IAS; I didn't have the chance to test drive a car fitted with it, but decided not to opt for it based on reviews.
You are going to just love this big silky smooth engine. I'm being a bit careful with the throttle for now, but as far as I can tell, it would appear that the twin turbo set-up has eliminated the lag I had in my 300d.
Are you getting the Sport Auto box? It's amazing .

[Begood]

EdwinF10
Thanks for your advice! I appreciate it (:
The 530d with AD is likely to be my call.