[Boulder Bill]

Just collected my car from the dealer after 3 days of CCP testing and repairs. Enjoyed an X5 with the 3.5 diesel. Interesting ride. Glad to be back in mine.

Anyway, all fuel injectors were replaced, along with decoupling elements, and a new battery. In addition, though I don't know what all these parts necessarily do or encompass, I am the proud new owner of a hot-film air mass, several gaskets and clamps, connecting lines, vent pipes and a vacuum pump. Fabulous. My timing chain passed the rigorous exam.

My 2013 has 33,000 miles after almost 3 years on the road. Can those of us with the 63 V8 expect a repeat of this in another 30,000 miles? Does this make this car an unworthy candidate to hang onto for another 100,000 miles? I recognize that these are somewhat rhetorical questions, but what do you think?

Love the car, hate to think already about replacement, but this does not encourage a long term ownership commitment.

I'm feeling rather disenchanted. . .

[BMWrules7]

Originally Posted by Boulder Bill

Just collected my car from the dealer after 3 days of CCP testing and repairs. Enjoyed an X5 with the 3.5 diesel. Interesting ride. Glad to be back in mine.

Anyway, all fuel injectors were replaced, along with decoupling elements, and a new battery. In addition, though I don't know what all these parts necessarily do or encompass, I am the proud new owner of a hot-film air mass, several gaskets and clamps, connecting lines, vent pipes and a vacuum pump. Fabulous. My timing chain passed the rigorous exam.

My 2013 has 33,000 miles after almost 3 years on the road. Can those of us with the 63 V8 expect a repeat of this in another 30,000 miles? Does this make this car an unworthy candidate to hang onto for another 100,000 miles? I recognize that these are somewhat rhetorical questions, but what do you think?

Love the car, hate to think already about replacement, but this does not encourage a long term ownership commitment.

I'm feeling rather disenchanted. . .

No. This is a case where software settings caused premature wear.

BMW is a reputable company. So many manufacturers might have fixed the parameters in the software without proactively replacing components.

Once the the software is updated and the CCP completed, you're good to go.

This is not a design defect per se. Rather, it's a software defect that has been fully remedied.

[dblock2151]

Just get used to replacing the battery every 10k miles

[Boulder Bill]

I guess we shall see on the battery.

I hadn't experienced any problems with my original, evidently underpowered one in the first 30,000 miles!

[Mbbrewer]

Originally Posted by BMWrules7

No. This is a case where software settings caused premature wear.

BMW is a reputable company. So many manufacturers might have fixed the parameters in the software without proactively replacing components.

Once the the software is updated and the CCP completed, you're good to go.

This is not a design defect per se. Rather, it's a software defect that has been fully remedied.

Wrong. It's a mechanical design defect.

[BMWrules7]

Originally Posted by Mbbrewer

Wrong. It's a mechanical design defect.

We are entitled to our opinions here. But, my opinion is more consistent with the facts, right?

Otherwise it would not be a CCP it would be a recall, right?

[mko9]

Only time will tell. BMW is doing what they can, but there is a limit to what they can do short of redesigning the engine geometry. When these cars come out of warranty and start hitting 60-80-100K miles, then we will be able to see if the fix has truly fixed the issue. Keep in mind that this forum is not representative of the 550 owning populations. The vast majority will be clueless as to what the issue is and what CCP does. I doubt resale value will be impacted, just look at the 996 vintage 911s with their IRS issues.

[Boulder Bill]

Originally Posted by mko9

this forum is not representative of the 550 owning populations. The vast majority will be clueless as to what the issue is and what CCP does.

I'm not so sure that I don't fall into that majority. I've read a fair bit, and I'm certainly an enthusiast about my car. But I find myself rather uncertain as to what the issue is precisely and how the fix is designed to address it on a long-term basis. It seems to have both software and mechanical components as near as I can tell.

[493263]

Originally Posted by Boulder Bill

I guess we shall see on the battery.

I hadn't experienced any problems with my original, evidently underpowered one in the first 30,000 miles!

That's because Colorado has a lot of uncongested roads and highways. You can coast a lot and move at high speed. Most F10 owners are in or near the city. We don't get to do that so often.

[Boulder Bill]

Perhaps that is part of the issue. I have been known to enjoy the 550's capabilities.

[Mbbrewer]

Originally Posted by BMWrules7

We are entitled to our opinions here. But, my opinion is more consistent with the facts, right?

Otherwise it would not be a CCP it would be a recall, right?

So faulty injectors, snapped timing chains, faulty fuel pumps, etc, are software related?

[BMWrules7]

Originally Posted by Mbbrewer

So faulty injectors, snapped timing chains, faulty fuel pumps, etc, are software related?

Yes, of course. Why is this so hard to fathom?

Airbus once had a defect where it's landing gear would cycle through a test procedure prior to landing. Only, the software defect caused the landing gear test to be carried out over and over, nearly endlessly, during the flight. This caused extensive wear on various hydraulic valves and components.

Thus, a software defect, caused a test that should occur once to take place hundreds of times more frequently. Initially. No one understood why various airplane parts in the landing gear were completely worn long before they should be serviced.

A software error led to premature hardware failure.

This is not too much unlike the the CCP issue.

History is replete with software causing premature hardware failures.

[Mbbrewer]

Originally Posted by BMWrules7

Yes, of course. Why is this so hard to fathom?

Airbus once had a defect where it's landing gear would cycle through a test procedure prior to landing. Only, the software defect caused the landing gear test to be carried out over and over, nearly endlessly, during the flight. This caused extensive wear on various hydraulic valves and components.

Thus, a software defect, caused a test that should occur once to take place hundreds of times more frequently. Initially. No one understood why various airplane parts in the landing gear were completely worn long before they should be serviced.

A software error led to premature hardware failure.

This is not too much unlike the the CCP issue.

History is replete with software causing premature hardware failures.

LOL. So based on your factual information, what software error led to premature hardware failure and what software changes did BMW make in the car during the CCP to mitigate these mechanical issues? Why did BMW feel the need to use different part numbers on the injectors if it were only software related?

The software in the car had nothing to do with faulty injectors. Software had nothing to do with stretched timing chains. Software had nothing to do with bad fuel pumps, crank case vent lines, mass air flow meters, engine vacuum pumps, and excessive heat caused by the turbos being mounted in the cylinder bank.

[493263]

Software can definitely cause premature failure in hardware. Software controls the hardware.

Say if you want to crack your heads, break your pistons, damage the injectors and mess up all the O2 sensors; you just have to advance the timing, crank boost past threshold, don't allow the fan to run higher than 40%, raise rev limiter to 9000rpm and burn lean. That's all controlled by the software. Exhaust and intake valves are all the software controlled too. So are boost, temp management, etc...

In this case for the N63, I would say it's a combination of bad parts, design flaws and some minor software. I think the software tweaks they made was probably safety tweaks to decrease the failure rate a bit.

Also, new parts means there could be a difference in performance of that part. The ECU don't know exactly what the parts are doing. It gets info from the sensors in form of electrical signals. For example, 1.05V from the O2 sensor may mean 40 ppm and 1.10V means 60 ppm. So when you put in a new part with slightly different specs, you may need to modify your parameters. I don't know exactly what they did but I'm just giving you an example.

But yeah, software pretty much control the engine and drivetrain these days. I can destroy your engine in a few minutes if I have direct access to their codes.

[BMWrules7]

Originally Posted by Mbbrewer

LOL. So based on your factual information, what software error led to premature hardware failure and what software changes did BMW make in the car during the CCP to mitigate these mechanical issues? Why did BMW feel the need to use different part numbers on the injectors if it were only software related?

The software in the car had nothing to do with faulty injectors. Software had nothing to do with stretched timing chains. Software had nothing to do with bad fuel pumps, crank case vent lines, mass air flow meters, engine vacuum pumps, and excessive heat caused by the turbos being mounted in the cylinder bank.

M'kay, let's remove all the software. All of it. Okay.

Now. Start your f10.

Go on put your foot on the brake and start the car.

What? It won't start? Why? It won't start because the car is nothing more than a boat anchor if we remove ALL the software?

Really? So, then you mean to say that your f10 can't roll the starter, let alone run the motor without software.

Ok, would you like to reconsider your position?

I rest my case!

[Mbbrewer]

Yes in your scenario the car would not start because the software doesn't exist. No denying that. Would the car start if it had correct software but no injectors or fuel pump? Of course not.

You still haven't answered my question. Based on your stated factual information, what specific software issue created faulty injectors? What software issue caused the timing chain to stretch? I seriously want to know. Why would BMW go through the trouble to redesign a part if all the car needed was a software update?

I've been apart of this discussion with the N63 for some time and this is the first I've heard that software issues have been the root cause of the need for the CCP.

[RSBro]

I was worried at first... like, already looking at 435s and M235s, etc..
But I powered through, relied on the fact that BMW factory warranties take care of everything, and I haven't had really any issues since the CCP in 6 months now.
I had to have a VANOS solenoid replaced but hey, VANOS is gonna VANOS on a BMW so I expected that pre-CCP!
I will be getting an extended bumper to bumper warranty when mine runs out. But I'm keeping my car, especially since I'm about to start commuting about 40 miles a day again. On the open road this car is flat out amazing. I'm glad to be spending more time in it soon.

[BMWrules7]

Originally Posted by Mbbrewer

Yes in your scenario the car would not start because the software doesn't exist. No denying that. Would the car start if it had correct software but no injectors or fuel pump? Of course not.

You still haven't answered my question. Based on your stated factual information, what specific software issue created faulty injectors? What software issue caused the timing chain to stretch? I seriously want to know. Why would BMW go through the trouble to redesign a part if all the car needed was a software update?

I've been apart of this discussion with the N63 for some time and this is the first I've heard that software issues have been the root cause of the need for the CCP.

I think my point was that whatever the root cause, it is inescapable that software is involved.

Some feel that part of the root cause of the need for the CCP is related to how BMW stresses the battery by operating cooling systems for too long of a period after the engine is shut off.

It is software that manages the cooling based on this sensor data. It is software that manages nearly all aspects of the engine. Even the throttle is controlled by software.

Whatever the root cause of the CCP, you can bet that software is involved.