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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum Car&Driver August 2010 issue
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      07-25-2010, 08:26 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/...E-Auto/248585/

But you mentioned yours tested was not the basic F10, but with adaptive drive (which includes the anti-roll bars) and this is the only auto mag that mentions more body roll in the base F10? Also from the same article

"It’s important to note that when we make comparisons between the 5-series and its competitors in terms of ride and handling, we are talking about differences you could only measure in nths of degrees, when tested back to back on the same stretch of demanding road or ride-and-handling test track.
Note, too, that the new 5-series is, in general, an excellent car to drive; it is quiet, it is comfortable, it soothes miles away with the same crushing ease with which it approaches going around corners. We would very happily recommend a 5-series to anyone who wants one to drive 50,000 miles a year and occasionally enjoy themselves while they are doing it.
However, to maximise its potential it’s important to optimise the specification, of which the choices are many. And even then, to note that in some areas the 5-series is a touch weaker than its best rivals.
First, we’d avoid choosing anything larger than the 18-inch wheels of our test car. Smaller wheels are standard and, if you can bear their appearance, will be better still at providing a truly isolated ride. As it is, the 18-inchers mated to the standard (passive and non-adjustable) suspension of our test car let sharper road imperfections affect the cabin in a way that a Mercedes E-class on 17s does not.
Adaptive dampers are optional on all models. With them fitted, small ripples are far better dealt with. Brake, turn (even modestly) and introduce a broken surface into the equation and this test 5-series fails to prevent noisy thumps with the same aplomb as an adaptively suspended car (even on 19in wheels) or an E-class. We understand a revision is planned."

Another autocar review http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/...30d-SE/246781/ and there is a previous thread on autocar.
The 550 had the package. 535 did not. I have not read ALL the reviews on the 5 series so I'm not sure if this is the only one that mentions this issue. I just happen to come across this article. I realize I'm being particular. Don't get me wrong, I'm not totally bashing the car. It was just a let down in the handling department or at least my perception of such. Maybe it wasn't body roll per se. It just felt less predictable/confident. Maybe while cornering the numb steering feel led to a slight overcorrection when unwinding the steering lock and hence more body roll/weight transfer. I'm obviously only speculating. Something just didn't feel right. I think car and driver's assessment is in line with what I experienced:

"What, exactly, befell the new 535i? Steering feel. Rather, lack of steering feel. The new electric power assist has not only rendered the steering uncommunicative—particularly on-center—but, for some reason, it has also become heavier. When you can’t determine road textures and slip angles and how hard those 19-inch Goodyear run-flats are working, you lose confidence if the roads are damp and as kinked as week-old spaghetti.

And when you lose confidence, the poison seeps into other crevices. Notice, for instance, that the 535i demonstrated terrific skidpad grip—an objective rating. Then, in the hills, its handling earned the lowest score—a subjective rating. That, in turn, infected the fun-to-drive ranking, where the BMW tanked because it’s simply no bowl of cherries predicting real-world lateral stick when the steering coughs up so few clues. Guess wrong and you’ll seriously rearrange the C-pillar’s signature “Hofmeister kink.”"

Last edited by erio; 07-25-2010 at 09:30 PM..
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      07-25-2010, 10:14 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erio View Post
The 550 had the package. 535 did not. I have not read ALL the reviews on the 5 series so I'm not sure if this is the only one that mentions this issue. I just happen to come across this article. I realize I'm being particular. Don't get me wrong, I'm not totally bashing the car. It was just a let down in the handling department or at least my perception of such. Maybe it wasn't body roll per se. It just felt less predictable/confident. Maybe while cornering the numb steering feel led to a slight overcorrection when unwinding the steering lock and hence more body roll/weight transfer. I'm obviously only speculating. Something just didn't feel right. I think car and driver's assessment is in line with what I experienced:

"What, exactly, befell the new 535i? Steering feel. Rather, lack of steering feel. The new electric power assist has not only rendered the steering uncommunicative—particularly on-center—but, for some reason, it has also become heavier. When you can’t determine road textures and slip angles and how hard those 19-inch Goodyear run-flats are working, you lose confidence if the roads are damp and as kinked as week-old spaghetti.

And when you lose confidence, the poison seeps into other crevices. Notice, for instance, that the 535i demonstrated terrific skidpad grip—an objective rating. Then, in the hills, its handling earned the lowest score—a subjective rating. That, in turn, infected the fun-to-drive ranking, where the BMW tanked because it’s simply no bowl of cherries predicting real-world lateral stick when the steering coughs up so few clues. Guess wrong and you’ll seriously rearrange the C-pillar’s signature “Hofmeister kink.”"
Yes, I'm not objecting to your views as you've test driven the F10s. My only question was whether the adaptive drive was adjusted properly.

As for car & driver, I'd have more questions as their distribution of points and specs of the cars are suspect also whether one agrees with c & d on the cars tested in the subjective areas, and one shouldn't compare the handling of the F10 with say a E90 http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...0ed856746b.pdf

Last edited by bm323; 07-25-2010 at 10:37 PM..
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      07-26-2010, 10:15 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
Yes, I'm not objecting to your views as you've test driven the F10s. My only question was whether the adaptive drive was adjusted properly.

As for car & driver, I'd have more questions as their distribution of points and specs of the cars are suspect also whether one agrees with c & d on the cars tested in the subjective areas, and one shouldn't compare the handling of the F10 with say a E90 http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...0ed856746b.pdf
Yes I'm positive that the adaptive drive was adjusted to the max sport+ setting. My point is that it shouldn't require such a setting to give the proper feel, which it failed to do in my opinion. I would say I felt more confident driving the e60, esp. with sport package, compared with the current model with dynamic handling. Maybe it's the new steering.
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      07-26-2010, 10:59 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erio View Post
Yes I'm positive that the adaptive drive was adjusted to the max sport+ setting. My point is that it shouldn't require such a setting to give the proper feel, which it failed to do in my opinion. I would say I felt more confident driving the e60, esp. with sport package, compared with the current model with dynamic handling. Maybe it's the new steering.
Yes maybe but the F10 may be better in sport mode with the chassis adjusted using the iDrive. Both the toggle button and the iDrive need to work together.
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      07-26-2010, 03:43 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
Yes maybe but the F10 may be better in sport mode with the chassis adjusted using the iDrive. Both the toggle button and the iDrive need to work together.

You may have a point. I would assume they had idrive set up with the most aggressive settings so the customer would be able to easily see the differences, but I'm not sure. I only know I compared it in all settings, including sport+ mode. Can the steering be adjusted in idrive as well? I wish it could be adjusted back to hydraulic as it gives the best feedback.

Last edited by erio; 07-26-2010 at 07:01 PM..
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      07-26-2010, 09:56 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erio View Post
You may have a point. I would assume they had idrive set up with the most aggressive settings so the customer would be able to easily see the differences, but I'm not sure. I only know I compared it in all settings, including sport+ mode. Can the steering be adjusted in idrive as well? I wish it could be adjusted back to hydraulic as it gives the best feedback.
The steering is tightened as part of the driving dynamics in sport mode, but not as an independent item. The iDrive accesses the chassis and drivetrain in sport mode (only when the car has adaptive drive or EDC). You are probably right in that the iDrive should have set up the drive appropriately. Just a possibility that someone not knowing its mechanics may have fiddled it by mistake.
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      07-28-2010, 01:44 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
The steering is tightened as part of the driving dynamics in sport mode, but not as an independent item. The iDrive accesses the chassis and drivetrain in sport mode (only when the car has adaptive drive or EDC). You are probably right in that the iDrive should have set up the drive appropriately. Just a possibility that someone not knowing its mechanics may have fiddled it by mistake.

Possibly. However, I don't buy it and I honestly don't think it would have made much difference.
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      07-28-2010, 06:30 PM   #96
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there was plenty of whining about active steering when e90 came out as how the steering was artificial and boosted, but I found it fantastic and after getting used to it, found it far better than almost any other BMW steering.

I am sure the same will be true here. Many new BMW features need getting used to (like idrive) but are more rewarding in the end.

Atleast that is what I believe...
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      07-28-2010, 08:04 PM   #97
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ok i will stick with My 2009 M3 sedan which wins every comparison imaginable
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      07-29-2010, 02:40 AM   #98
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5-Series Sedan is "softer" for a reason: the upcoming 6-Series GranCoupe. It will be the sportiest non-M 4-door car in BMW range. Sleek, low, sporty, engaging, more elegant and more exclusive. Therefore 5-series Sedan morphed more into luxo-executive sedan, to make space for 6-Seriec GC which is coming in late 2012.
Yet more sportiness in 6-Seres GC will come at a price: less interior space (mostly less head room), less comfort (sportier suspension) & less usability (smaller trunk) compared to 5-Series Sedan.
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      07-29-2010, 12:02 PM   #99
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When the 2001 330i came out, there was a similar uproar about the numb, over assisted steering. I noticed it immdiately when I picked my wife's car up 3 states away. BMW actally offered to retrofit the 328 steering rack gratis, and I took them up on it. Made a big difference. Doubt that they'd do it these days, but I wouldn't be surprised if a fix is in the works and while come on line soon. The C&D article is serious bad press.
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      07-29-2010, 06:59 PM   #100
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wouldn't surprise me if they tune the power assisted steering from sep production...
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      07-31-2010, 04:41 PM   #101
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I have driven the F10 (535 with standard suspension). I thought it was a "nice" car but was not overwhelmed by any means. While the drive did not allow me to "wring it out" the feeling I had walking away at the end was that the car was overweight, and that the N55, while not slow, was best described as brisk, not overpowering. The comments by others in this thread tend to reinforce those views, and similar comments have been made in various car mags.

I think the thing that bothers many people is that we should NOT have to buy an optional suspension to get good handling, which has always been the hallmark of BMWs for decades. The loss of steering feel is just one more irritant. Obviously, BMW wants to sell cars and probably figures that those who care more about handling and less about just having a roundel on their hoods, will just ante up for the optional suspension.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
Should test drive the F10 first There are forummers in other boards who haven't test driven it or may not have adjusted the adaptive drive, but yet are able to make many comments on how the car handles.

I find this board the most intelligent and mature

You can also check out the reviews of auto mags compiled by this board http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343293

Last edited by MikeTerp; 07-31-2010 at 04:47 PM..
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      07-31-2010, 06:33 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeTerp View Post
I have driven the F10 (535 with standard suspension). I thought it was a "nice" car but was not overwhelmed by any means. While the drive did not allow me to "wring it out" the feeling I had walking away at the end was that the car was overweight, and that the N55, while not slow, was best described as brisk, not overpowering. The comments by others in this thread tend to reinforce those views, and similar comments have been made in various car mags.

I think the thing that bothers many people is that we should NOT have to buy an optional suspension to get good handling, which has always been the hallmark of BMWs for decades. The loss of steering feel is just one more irritant. Obviously, BMW wants to sell cars and probably figures that those who care more about handling and less about just having a roundel on their hoods, will just ante up for the optional suspension.
Yes, check out the adaptive drive or the M sport suspension which a few forummers have experienced and recommend.
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      07-31-2010, 07:12 PM   #103
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XDrive vehicle will NOT have electric steering, so there's an option for those opposed to it.
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      07-31-2010, 07:36 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soon ExAudi Guy View Post
XDrive vehicle will NOT have electric steering, so there's an option for those opposed to it.
ah yes, also check out XDrive
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      07-31-2010, 09:09 PM   #105
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Listen folks - I've never purchased a car based on Car & Driver or another magazine.

I've purchased based on whim and gut feel.

My last car was a Nissan GT-R, and while it won every review in its first few months, it had serious flaws.

I expect the 535i to be everything I hoped for - a modern, luxo-cruiser with some flair of sportiness.

If it doesn't cut the mustard, I'll get an M5 (or go to a competitor). I advise others to do the same (live with it or trade it for something else).
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      07-31-2010, 10:12 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeTerp View Post
I have driven the F10 (535 with standard suspension). I thought it was a "nice" car but was not overwhelmed by any means. While the drive did not allow me to "wring it out" the feeling I had walking away at the end was that the car was overweight, and that the N55, while not slow, was best described as brisk, not overpowering. The comments by others in this thread tend to reinforce those views, and similar comments have been made in various car mags.

I think the thing that bothers many people is that we should NOT have to buy an optional suspension to get good handling, which has always been the hallmark of BMWs for decades. The loss of steering feel is just one more irritant. Obviously, BMW wants to sell cars and probably figures that those who care more about handling and less about just having a roundel on their hoods, will just ante up for the optional suspension.
+1. In my previous posts I made the same observations when I test drove the 550 with sport package and the 535. This is exagerating, but it's almost like they added a Lexus like suspension and have a BMW suspension as an option. By that I mean the soon to come M package's suspension. I hope this will bring it back to it's roots. As for the steering, I don't know if there is any hope.
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      07-31-2010, 10:55 PM   #107
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M-Package does not include an M-sport suspension. You can only get that suspension in Europe.
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      07-31-2010, 11:18 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
M-Package does not include an M-sport suspension. You can only get that suspension in Europe.
I read it will be available in Oct. See the thread below. Is that info incorrect?

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthre...on#post7586892
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      08-01-2010, 12:49 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erio View Post
I read it will be available in Oct. See the thread below. Is that info incorrect?

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthre...on#post7586892
That poster is from Great Britain. That is a press release for Britain. Not the US. According to my CA in the US we do not get the M-Sport Suspension. As usual BMW NA does not let US BMW Enthusiasts get the good stuff.
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      08-01-2010, 01:38 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
That poster is from Great Britain. That is a press release for Britain. Not the US. According to my CA in the US we do not get the M-Sport Suspension. As usual BMW NA does not let US BMW Enthusiasts get the good stuff.
Well it says available in the U.S. in October at the bottom. I hope your CA is wrong. Here is another thread that states it will be available:

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthre...ght=suspension

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