[Bbb34]

I wanted to experience few snow storms, few freezing rain days and several trips to the ski hill in different conditions before I post.

For the record, I’m not at all trying to say that RWD is better than AWD. I’m not even saying it’s better (or worse) than FWD, or claim it’s smart or safe choice for everybody (personal decision everybody has to make).

Just wanted to share in case there’s anybody like me who might have (major) concerns getting a RWD car in the area with snow.

The car handles perfectly fine in all winter conditions, highways, icy roads, snow covered roads, slushy roads. By now I think I’ve tried it all, and even made a point of going out several times before snow cleanup crews just to see how it behaves. I tried it all other than major hill climbs or deep snow (more than 3 inches), but then again, I don’t know many sedans that excel in those conditions.

It isn't as fast off the line as AWD and it’ll give you a bit of rear end wiggle if you’re being too agressive on the throttle, but electronics really kick in super fast to prevent you from doing anything silly.

Of course, if you’re brave and/or skilled enough, you can also have lots of fun by turning all or some of the aids off, but I’ll be responsible adult here and not endorse that kind of behavior.

So yeah, so far, no trip has been postponed due to bad weather.
Oh, and, don’t feel I should be saying this, but will anyway, good winter tires are “must have" of course.

Would I rather have “x" car in exactly the same configuration (does not exist in my particular case)? Probably yeah, it’s hard to argue it’s “smarter” choice for these conditions.

But I guess I’m trying to say if you live in area that gets regular snowfalls and are considering RWD, and “everybody” tells you it’s the absolutely wrong choice and impossible to drive in the winter....well, maybe not. I suppose it boils down to how much you value RWD driving feel the rest of the year.

[Grover432]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

I wanted to experience few snow storms, few freezing rain days and several trips to the ski hill in different conditions before I post.

For the record, I’m not at all trying to say that RWD is better than AWD. I’m not even saying it’s better (or worse) than FWD, or claim it’s smart or safe choice for everybody (personal decision everybody has to make).

Just wanted to share in case there’s anybody like me who might have (major) concerns getting a RWD car in the area with snow.

The car handles perfectly fine in all winter conditions, highways, icy roads, snow covered roads, slushy roads. By now I think I’ve tried it all, and even made a point of going out several times before snow cleanup crews just to see how it behaves. I tried it all other than major hill climbs or deep snow (more than 3 inches), but then again, I don’t know many sedans that excel in those conditions.

It isn't as fast off the line as AWD and it’ll give you a bit of rear end wiggle if you’re being too agressive on the throttle, but electronics really kick in super fast to prevent you from doing anything silly.

Of course, if you’re brave and/or skilled enough, you can also have lots of fun by turning all or some of the aids off, but I’ll be responsible adult here and not endorse that kind of behavior.

So yeah, so far, no trip has been postponed due to bad weather.
Oh, and, don’t feel I should be saying this, but will anyway, good winter tires are “must have" of course.

Would I rather have “x" car in exactly the same configuration (does not exist in my particular case)? Probably yeah, it’s hard to argue it’s “smarter” choice for these conditions.

But I guess I’m trying to say if you live in area that gets regular snowfalls and are considering RWD, and “everybody” tells you it’s the absolutely wrong choice and impossible to drive in the winter....well, maybe not. I suppose it boils down to how much you value RWD driving feel the rest of the year.

No one says it is impossible to drive with RWD but AWD is definitely an advantage, but more expensive especially if you order DHP ($3,500) to improve handling as the 704 sport suspension that comes with M Sport is not available with X Drive.

I live on the prairies and would rather sacrifice a bit to get the extra security and winder performance that X Drive affords in the winter. To each his own though.

PS I have a winter set of Dunlop 3D Wintersports mounted as well/

[Boulder Bill]

I'm two years in on my F10 RWD. I had 9 years prior to that with a RWD E39. Both cars had manual transmission. I have driven in every conceivable winter weather condition. AWD is great (have driven Audis with Quattro), but RWD does a damn near equally good job. For me, no AWD available with the six speed anyway.

But as both previous posters point out, a good set of winter snow tires is critical. I think they are far more significant than the distinction between AWD and RWD.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by Boulder Bill

...For me, no AWD available with the six speed anyway.

Same here .

I believe that manual transmission is additional bonus when it comes to safety/control in winter conditions.

[Noggie]

Awd has only been around in normal family cars for the past 20-30 years.
For BMW it's more or less the past 10 years if you don't count the X-cars and the 325ix of the late 80s.

Strangely enough people manged to get around in the snow with RWD for decades.
In the 80s only "terrain" type vehicles and some pick up trucks had AWD.

My first car had RWD, no ABS brakes, no driving aids at all, and winter driving was no issue, it was actually quite fun.
Granted pretty much all cars had studded tires back then, and a set of snow chains in the trunk.
But really it was no issue.

Personally I have done ice track driving and flicking a car sideways in 60mph and performing a controlled power slide by balancing the throttle through a corner is very satisfying.

So the "need" for AWD if there is an inch of snow outside is hugely exaggerated, I see it as a nice to have option like traction control and anti skidding systems.

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by Noggie

Personally I have done ice track driving and flicking a car sideways in 60mph and performing a controlled power slide by balancing the throttle through a corner is very satisfying.

Yes, every house wife with children in the back seat should know how to do that

[Grover432]

Originally Posted by Noggie

Awd has only been around in normal family cars for the past 20-30 years.
For BMW it's more or less the past 10 years if you don't count the X-cars and the 325ix of the late 80s.

Strangely enough people manged to get around in the snow with RWD for decades.
In the 80s only "terrain" type vehicles and some pick up trucks had AWD.

My first car had RWD, no ABS brakes, no driving aids at all, and winter driving was no issue, it was actually quite fun.
Granted pretty much all cars had studded tires back then, and a set of snow chains in the trunk.
But really it was no issue.

Personally I have done ice track driving and flicking a car sideways in 60mph and performing a controlled power slide by balancing the throttle through a corner is very satisfying.

So the "need" for AWD if there is an inch of snow outside is hugely exaggerated, I see it as a nice to have option like traction control and anti skidding systems.

Its really quite simple: In the winter with snow and ice covered roads, if you want to leave a stop light at the same pace (and lack of drama) as in the summer, get X Drive. If you don't mind some wheel spin, squirming back end and constant intrusion from the electronic nannies, get RWD and put a set of snow tires on - no problem.

I drove to work this morning after 2cm of snow overnight. Temps are -17C. The light dusting of snow has been "polished up" at every intersection. The car beside me - an american fwd sedan with snow tires - me a 535 X Drive with Dunlop wintersports on all 4. Light turns green and I lightly press the gas pedal, I'm up to 60 km/h in the same time it would take me in the summer. I'm through the next light 400m away and the car beside me struggles to get moving and catches the red and gets to stop and do it all over.

FWD and snows vs AWD and snows - no comparison. Do you need AWD? No. Do you want it (in winter climates)? Why not?

In Canada, most BMW models aren't brought in in RWD, but you can special order them, I believe.

[remmib]

So Bbb34, what kind of snow tires do you have?

[Boulder Bill]

This topic comes up pretty regularly. AWD with snow tires will always be superior. AWD with all season radials, not so much.

Many folks feel that the ability to stop is the most important thing in the snow and ice. Snow tires, not AWD, largely control that issue.

But as to the OP's original observation, yes the F10 RWD with snow tires performs very well. I'm currently running the Dunlap SP Winter Sport 3D with 17 inch rims. I've been pleased.

[Hobbe74]

I really agree on the subject of how well it works to drive an RWD in winter conditions and have done so more or less since i got my drivers license. (+20yrs)
Dunlop Wintersport 3D and 4D are what we in the tire business name European Friction Tires and they work well in snow and slush and are far superior to any allseason tire during winter.
But...when it comes to comparing with a Nordic Friction Tyre such as the Dunlop SP Ice Sport, its got no chance when it comes to real snowy and icy conditions. (All premium brands make Nordic tyres) Im quite sure they dont offer those overseas unforetunatly but if they do...try it out!

And on ice if you can live with more noice, nothing beats a studded tyre.

[valbmw]

This is a winter talk and when summer comes, the discussions will switch again to the performance tires and wheels upgrade. As for now, regardless of how cool you are as a driver or how many electronic safety systems your FWD, RWD or AWD car really has, it's a very proper thing to have good winter tires.

Living in a large city even in snowy winter you will notice the streets are clean and somewhere even secured with deicing chemicals. But who has to travel far outside of the city can be challenged with ice and snow terrains where the Nordic-type studded tires are very much recommended and effective.

For that mixed driving I use my factory 18" 350M with 255/45/18 Nokian Hakkapeliitta 8. Together with xDrive this winter setup seems to be second to none.

[lsturbointeg]

I'm not running snow tires. Running those Dunlop run flats and they have no traction whatsoever! Can't afford winter tires for the moment but that's why we have other vehicles to drive. Even with light snow I'm all over the road. So the car sits during the winter.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by remmib

So Bbb34, what kind of snow tires do you have?

I use V rated (not that I need that really) Dunlop SP Wintersport 3D DSST. Got lucky to pick up almost new set from another member on this forum who upgraded to M5 so these (tires and rims) would not fit him. I'm pretty happy with these as you can tell, though was warned they might not last as long as what I'm used to.

If I was buying new, I'd likely go with Nokian Hakkapeliitta again, I had amazing experience with those in the past and cannot recommend them enough.

I just want to clarify once again that I'm not saying "you've got snow, go get yourself RWD car" . My wife's Subaru Outback is stunning good on snow (also with good winter tires), do not get me wrong. What I'm saying is that I had "oh so many" concerns about my decision, but so far, have proven them all wrong.

[valbmw]

Good choice. Very reasonable and logical way of thinking.

[Noggie]

Originally Posted by Grover432

In Canada, most BMW models aren't brought in in RWD, but you can special order them, I believe.

In Norway just over 50% are xdrive.
BMW was actually the most selling AWD car in the country in 2014.

Originally Posted by Bbb34

If I was buying new, I'd likely go with Nokian Hakkapeliitta again, I had amazing experience with those in the past and cannot recommend them enough.

Pretty much the test winner along with Continental "conti Viking contact 6" non-studded and the studded "conti ice contact" every year in Scandinavia.

[Grover432]

Originally Posted by Noggie

In Norway just over 50% are xdrive.
BMW was actually the most selling AWD car in the country in 2014.



Pretty much the test winner along with Continental "conti Viking contact 6" non-studded and the studded "conti ice contact" every year in Scandinavia.

We have Nokian H2 SUV on my wife's mini van and I can't say enough good things about them, especially compared to the Michelin X Ice 2s that were on the van last year that were all but useless in snow and ice.

The Dunlops have been excellent on my X Drive. Traction is great and stopping is pretty impressive too. They are quiet as well and handle well on dry roads.

[Hobbe74]

Originally Posted by Noggie

In Norway just over 50% are xdrive.
BMW was actually the most selling AWD car in the country in 2014.

Pretty much the test winner along with Continental "conti Viking contact 6" non-studded and the studded "conti ice contact" every year in Scandinavia.

I have to object
Most premium brands have "won" tests over the last 3-4 years in the Nordics.
Depending on type of test and magazine Nokian, Pirelli, Goodyear, Conti, Mich and Bridgestone all have had top results since they all focus in the growing Russian premium market where there are large sales volumes to gain.
What i want to say with this is that its good since competition drives development forward and its beneficial for consumers.
The difference between premium winter tires is very low 2015 compared to just a few years ago.
Most important: Buy premium.

[cdmulders]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

If I was buying new, I'd likely go with Nokian Hakkapeliitta again, I had amazing experience with those in the past and cannot recommend them enough.

Concur.

I also concur with OP that RWD is fine in snow when driven properly, especially with good snow tires. Until now, I've only ever had RWD and never had problems. My xDrive is my first AWD car and I must say that it, combined with the Hakkapeliitta run flats with which it is shod, does have amazing traction.

[Noggie]

Originally Posted by Hobbe74

I have to object
Most premium brands have "won" tests over the last 3-4 years in the Nordics.
Depending on type of test and magazine Nokian, Pirelli, Goodyear, Conti, Mich and Bridgestone all have had top results since they all focus in the growing Russian premium market where there are large sales volumes to gain.
What i want to say with this is that its good since competition drives development forward and its beneficial for consumers.
The difference between premium winter tires is very low 2015 compared to just a few years ago.
Most important: Buy premium.

Well that is kind of true, depends on the goal of the test.
Also you need to buy a Tire based on the weather where hou live.
A Tire that is good on snow and ice, might not be as good on dry and wet roads.

I imported a car from southern Germany 7 years ago.
It came with winter tires.
They were ok on dry and wet roads, but virtually useless on snow, so they was replaced after a season.

[lsturbointeg]

Is it safe to assume you guys are running on factory wheels 18-19" vs aftermarket 20-22" wheels? Probably why I'm all over the road.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by lsturbointeg

Is it safe to assume you guys are running on factory wheels 18-19" vs aftermarket 20-22" wheels? Probably why I'm all over the road.

Factory 18 for me. But for you it's probably the width of the tire, not so much the size. Again, if I was buying setup I have now brand new, instead from another forum member, I'd even go size down to 17" and more narrow, this is always better (and recommended) in the winter.

Bigger (and more importantly) wider is not better in winter conditions, and sure 17" would not look that great, but, safety first.

[Grover432]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

Factory 18 for me. But for you it's probably the width of the tire, not so much the size. Again, if I was buying setup I have now brand new, instead from another forum member, I'd even go size down to 17" and more narrow, this is always better (and recommended) in the winter.

Bigger (and more importantly) wider is not better in winter conditions, and sure 17" would not look that great, but, safety first.

I run 18's on wheels I bought at The Tire Rack. You can get better traction on narrower tires but you have to remember that you aren't always driving on a snow covered surface in the winter and narrower tires don't have the grip on dry roads that you might be accustomed to from summer driving, especially if you are on 19's like I am in the summer.