[Jon D]

Originally Posted by The X Men

I dont know about you guys, but I dont think the brake light in front of me is annoying at all.

Originally Posted by The X Men

We have similar winter traffic here in New England, except, instead of rain, we get snow and ice.

In which case, I'm surprised that you don't find the dazzle somewhat annoying and distracting.

PS: nearly forgot, we get the odd bit of snow and ice up here in Scotland too .

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by fat dog

I'm talking about being stationary and using the hand/parking/electro-mechanical brake but without auto hold being switched on. In this situation and with the foot off the pedal, the brake lights will not illuminate irrespective of what position the shift lever is in. I've posted to demonstrate that, for example, it is possible to sit at a set of traffic lights with the car left in D and not have the brake lights illuminated (and thus causing glare for the driver behind). You can then pull away as normal by simply pressing the accelerator without having to disengage the hand/parking/electro-mechanical brake, as this is done automatically and imperceptibly...

This afternoon I parked the car with the rear end facing a plate-glass window, so I had a good view of its reflection and noted the following:-
1. With the car in D and being held in auto-hold with your foot off the brake, the brake lights remain on.
2. With it still in D, but held by manually activating the parking brake, the lights go off as soon as you release the foot brake.
So, 1 and 2 are as you correctly say. However, my car does not react as you explain it with the handbrake applied manually. In this condition it does not "pull away as normal by simply pressing the accelerator without having to disengage the hand/parking/electro-mechanical brake".
When I tried this there was no throttle response on pressing the accelerator, the warning gong sounded and there was a warning caption stating that the parking brake should be released, which of course, required the foot brake being actuated before pressing the handbrake release switch - not quite "done automatically and imperceptibly".
So, it looks like it's a choice between easy and fluid stop-start with the brake lights on at all times when stationary, or a case of having to manually apply the handbrake then releasing the footbrake, reapplying the footbrake and pressing the handbrake release before you can move off.
Looks like I'll be sticking with the first option and to hell with courtesy.

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by Jon D

or a case of having to manually apply the handbrake then releasing the footbrake, reapplying the footbrake and pressing the handbrake release before you can move off.

I get tired just from reading that

[arnsbrae]

Originally Posted by Jon D

This afternoon I parked the car with the rear end facing a plate-glass window, so I had a good view of its reflection and noted the following:-
1. With the car in D and being held in auto-hold with your foot off the brake, the brake lights remain on.
2. With it still in D, but held by manually activating the parking brake, the lights go off as soon as you release the foot brake.
So, 1 and 2 are as you correctly say. However, my car does not react as you explain it with the handbrake applied manually. In this condition it does not "pull away as normal by simply pressing the accelerator without having to disengage the hand/parking/electro-mechanical brake".
When I tried this there was no throttle response on pressing the accelerator, the warning gong sounded and there was a warning caption stating that the parking brake should be released, which of course, required the foot brake being actuated before pressing the handbrake release switch - not quite "done automatically and imperceptibly".
So, it looks like it's a choice between easy and fluid stop-start with the brake lights on at all times when stationary, or a case of having to manually apply the handbrake then releasing the footbrake, reapplying the footbrake and pressing the handbrake release before you can move off.
Looks like I'll be sticking with the first option and to hell with courtesy.

Thanks for checking that out. Brake lights on it is then!

[MPH]

Originally Posted by Jon D

In which case, I'm surprised that you don't find the dazzle somewhat annoying and distracting.

PS: nearly forgot, we get the odd bit of snow and ice up here in Scotland too .

It's the idiots with their rear fog lights on that annoy me

[fat dog]

Originally Posted by arnsbrae

... Brake lights on it is then!

Not so my friend. Have faith and ignore the ever increasing amount of misinformation that is dropping into this thread.

Originally Posted by Jon D

...However, my car does not react as you explain it with the handbrake applied manually. In this condition it does not "pull away as normal by simply pressing the accelerator without having to disengage the hand/parking/electro-mechanical brake".
When I tried this there was no throttle response on pressing the accelerator, the warning gong sounded and there was a warning caption stating that the parking brake should be released, which of course, required the foot brake being actuated before pressing the handbrake release switch - not quite "done automatically and imperceptibly".

I'll wager that's because you've not replicated the situation I've described. I imagine P has been used somewhere in your sequence. Going from P to D (e.g. when first starting the car in the morning and setting off) does require a manual release of the hand brake, otherwise you get the warning bong and message.

However, I've described pulling up to a set of traffic lights without auto hold switched on and leaving the car in D. Once stationary at the lights, the hand brake is applied following which the foot brake is released (and at no time is the shift lever touched). Pulling away then does just require a gentle prod of the accelerator and the release of the handbrake is indeed "done automatically and imperceptibly". I do this probably twenty or thirty times a day and have been doing so for the last five months. Incidentally, higher range Audi's have also had this feature for at least the last five years.

[fat dog]

Originally Posted by fat dog

...One thing I haven't tried is to allow auto hold to engage and then apply the hand/parking/electro-mechanical brake and release the foot pedal. Will the lights be on or off?

If anyone is still interested/following this, I can report as follows having tried this on the way home tonight.

With auto hold switched on, I allowed the car to come to a standstill and for auto hold to engage. I then applied the hand brake and found that auto hold not only disengaged but switched off completely. The manual/handbook concurs with this. However and a touch surprisingly, there was actually a slight clunk and shudder as the applied brakes switched over to the electro-mechanically applied brakes (acting on the rear wheels only of course). Whilst this does then allow the car to be held without the brake lights illuminated, it's far from smooth and hardly convenient, as auto hold would have to be switched back on again.

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by fat dog

Not so my friend. Have faith and ignore the ever increasing amount of misinformation that is dropping into this thread.



I'll wager that's because you've not replicated the situation I've described. I imagine P has been used somewhere in your sequence. Going from P to D (e.g. when first starting the car in the morning and setting off) does require a manual release of the hand brake, otherwise you get the warning bong and message.

However, I've described pulling up to a set of traffic lights without auto hold switched on and leaving the car in D. Once stationary at the lights, the hand brake is applied following which the foot brake is released (and at no time is the shift lever touched). Pulling away then does just require a gentle prod of the accelerator and the release of the handbrake is indeed "done automatically and imperceptibly". I do this probably twenty or thirty times a day and have been doing so for the last five months. Incidentally, higher range Audi's have also had this feature for at least the last five years.

At no time during my previous tests did I touch the shift lever; it remained in D throughout and, to reiterate my earlier statement, the throttle was inactive until I pressed the handbrake release, which necessitated the reapplication of the footbrake beforehand.
I can only think that the difference between our cars might be due to variations in engines, transmissions or production dates - my car is a Sep '10 535d with sport auto box.

[arnsbrae]

Sounds to me like the best option is to leave auto hold off and dab on the electromechanical handbrake when I stop at the lights. (Leaving the car in D).
No brake light and no delay setting off.
I'll have a sneaky practice on my drive first tho'...

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by arnsbrae

Sounds to me like the best option is to leave auto hold off and dab on the electromechanical handbrake when I stop at the lights. (Leaving the car in D).
No brake light and no delay setting off.
I'll have a sneaky practice on my drive first tho'...

I'll be interested to hear whether your system works like 'fat dog's' F11, in that it releases automatically on moving off, or if it's the same as my F10, which has a dead throttle until you press the footbrake and manually release the handbrake beforehand.
Please post your findings.

[AC_S5]

Originally Posted by gspannu

Try that on a typical UK winter day; rush hour traffic, 5:30pm, already dark, constant slow rain, drizzle... and the brake lights start to become annoying.

I think you are more annoy by the fact that you are stuck in traffic instead of some guy in the front with the brake lights on.

[AC_S5]

To me I think the auto H system works the way it was intended to.

Auto H primary function is to helps you to engage your brakes when your car has come to a standstill rather then using your foot.

Just think of it this way, you are driving a car without the auto H feature. You are in traffic foot on brake, brake lights on. You use your handbrake to replace the foot brake, brake lights off. It doesn't matter what gear position you are in.

[arnsbrae]

Originally Posted by Jon D

I'll be interested to hear whether your system works like 'fat dog's' F11, in that it releases automatically on moving off, or if it's the same as my F10, which has a dead throttle until you press the footbrake and manually release the handbrake beforehand.
Please post your findings.

No problem Jon, but my car only arrived in the UK this week, so I probably won't see it 'til the week after next.
On reflection, it does seem odd that prodding the throttle would release the "handbrake."

[AC_S5]

Originally Posted by Jon D

I'll be interested to hear whether your system works like 'fat dog's' F11, in that it releases automatically on moving off, or if it's the same as my F10, which has a dead throttle until you press the footbrake and manually release the handbrake beforehand.
Please post your findings.

To chip in, if I engaged the handbrake manually, I have to release it manually also (Press brake and press on handbrake button)

I have driven an older version of the A6 and they do release the handbrake automatically for you and they also have the auto H function.

Let me try on my friend's A5 and tell you the finding when I have a chance.

[fat dog]

Originally Posted by Jon D

At no time during my previous tests did I touch the shift lever; it remained in D throughout and, to reiterate my earlier statement, the throttle was inactive until I pressed the handbrake release, which necessitated the reapplication of the footbrake beforehand.
I can only think that the difference between our cars might be due to variations in engines, transmissions or production dates - my car is a Sep '10 535d with sport auto box.

Originally Posted by AC_S5

To chip in, if I engaged the handbrake manually, I have to release it manually also (Press brake and press on handbrake button)

I have driven an older version of the A6 and they do release the handbrake automatically for you and they also have the auto H function.

Let me try on my friend's A5 and tell you the finding when I have a chance.

OK guys, thanks for those further details. I've also got the sports auto box so that doesn't explain the difference. So, in line with Jon D's thoughts, my guess is that this is either something that is permissible on 4 cylinder cars but not 6 cylinder cars, or is a feature associated with later production dates (my car was built Feb 2012).

I had a 2007 Audi A6 and my dad is on his second A8. All three cars perform the same as my car in this respect.

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by AC_S5

To chip in, if I engaged the handbrake manually, I have to release it manually also (Press brake and press on handbrake button)...

Yes, but you don't have to operate the footbrake first.

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by AC_S5

...Let me try on my friend's A5 and tell you the finding when I have a chance.

Appreciate your input, but any information about the Audi A5 isn't going to help us resolve, what appears to be, a difference between model variants within the BMW 5 series range.
Thanks for your interest though.

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by arnsbrae

No problem Jon, but my car only arrived in the UK this week, so I probably won't see it 'til the week after next.
On reflection, it does seem odd that prodding the throttle would release the "handbrake."

Enjoy the car when you get it; I won't be surprised to hear that it behaves like 'Fat dog's' F11. As he says, this might be due to differences in either production date or 4/6cyl specs.

[fat dog]

Originally Posted by Jon D

Enjoy the car when you get it; I won't be surprised to hear that it behaves like 'Fat dog's' F11. As he says, this might be due to differences in either production date or 4/6cyl specs.

I believe it certainly will. I've just read the owner's handbook/manual (don't know why I didn't just do this before) and under the heading Parking Brake, sub-heading Releasing, paragraph Automatic release for automatic gearbox it states:

"Operate the accelerator to automatically release.
LED and indicator turn off.
Under the following conditions, the parking brake is automatically released by operating the gas pedal.
>Engine on
>Drive state engaged
>Driver belted in and doors closed"

Does not differentiate between 4 and 6 cylinder cars. So differenece between my car and Jon D's / AC_S5's, must be due to production dates then.

Jon D - I suppose you will have an absence of similar text in your owner's handbook/manual?

Mine is "BMW 5 Series Touring, English VIII/11, 09 11 490".

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by fat dog

...I've just read the owner's handbook/manual (don't know why I didn't just do this before)...
...Jon D - I suppose you will have an absence of similar text in your owner's handbook/manual?...

Yes, I'm equally guilty of not referring to the manual, but my excuse is that I spent my entire working life in aviation and one of our maxims is: 'If all else fails, read the instructions' .
You're correct in that there's a handbook textual difference; under 'Releasing' my manual states: "Automatic gearbox: Press the switch with the brake pressed or gearbox position P engaged."
Glad we got that sorted out - as I said earlier, looks like I'll be sticking with auto-hold and to hell with courtesy .

[fat dog]

Originally Posted by Jon D

...Glad we got that sorted out...

Me too. But what I find most surprising is that, despite over 1200 views of this thread, we only canvassed one alternative opinion (thanks AC_S5) and so we still had to refer to our respective manuals to categorically put this to rest.......Although, could the difference be saloon v estate?

[AC_S5]

Originally Posted by Jon D

Appreciate your input, but any information about the Audi A5 isn't going to help us resolve, what appears to be, a difference between model variants within the BMW 5 series range.
Thanks for your interest though.

Originally Posted by Jon D

Yes, but you don't have to operate the footbrake first.

Think of it this way. If you engage a conventional handbrake. When you press the brake, the handbrake wouldn't dis-engage itself unless you dis-engage it with your own hand.

I was thinking more of a safety regulations so maybe for prior year model the electronic e brakes will disengage itself when you press the gas. On newer models it wouldn't.

I m just curious myself, since you don't think it will help, it's alright then.