2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
 

2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum Tip-in, jerk, hesitation, operating as designed?
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-09-2011, 03:09 AM   #23
EvolutionTheory
Private First Class
EvolutionTheory's Avatar
United_States
10
Rep
131
Posts

Drives: 2008 335xi Sedan
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Southern California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by delvek View Post
I have owned 2 F10's neither display(ed) the situation you discuss.

My car tiptoes through parking lots and hauls ass down autobahn's the momment I push on the accelerator with no indecision, it only asks my foot to instruct.

May I suggest ankle/calf workout program?
I meant for those that have the issue, they agree it's not a "feature" but a problem. Your two F10's don't cancel out the others who have felt this, including myself.
Oh, also this seems to just be on the 535i, definitely not the 550, and I'm not sure about the other models.
__________________
Dinan Stage 3 | High Capacity Oil Cooler | High Performance Intercooler | Carbon Fiber Cold Air Intake | Carbon Fiber Strut Tower Brace | Rear Sway Bar | KW V1's | 18" Forgestar F14's
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2011, 03:32 AM   #24
delvek
Major
delvek's Avatar
Germany
32
Rep
1,134
Posts

Drives: 2014 550i Msport
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tampa, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvolutionTheory View Post
I meant for those that have the issue, they agree it's not a "feature" but a problem. Your two F10's don't cancel out the others who have felt this, including myself.
Oh, also this seems to just be on the 535i, definitely not the 550, and I'm not sure about the other models.
Ah, no problem I didnt catch the 535i only part, I did do a little scan reading.
__________________
2014 550i M-sport
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2011, 04:21 AM   #25
HighlandPete
Lieutenant General
6659
Rep
15,858
Posts

Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Scotland, Highland Region

iTrader: (0)

Are the issues really the car and software, or are the driver’s also making things worse?

I know some folks don’t drive steady enough, confuse the electronics. I’ve observed this with drivers in some of the latest autos. It is as if the box has gone crazy, fighting for gears, in the wrong gears and generally driving very ‘notchy’. But get at the helm myself and the gearbox is fine. Does what I want without hesitation, or being in the wrong gear. This answers at least part of some issues.

Now after saying that, and also the comments in this thread that it could be partly involving the torque converter, I give the example of a VW DSG setup, so a dual clutch configuration and no ‘slush’ coupling.

We run two VW DSG setups in the family. A VW Caravelle 180PS TDi with the 7-speed DSG box and a VW Kombi/Transporter, again with the 180PS TDi and 7-speed DSG. Now these two setups are completely different in characteristic and response. Even when running similar loads, so it is not a weight/performance issue. The Caravelle will hesitate, fight for the right gear and lurch forward. My sister finds it very unnerving at junctions. The Transporter on the other hand, is near on perfect, never any issues at junctions, no hesitation and always in the right gear for what you want to do. So the same combination, same driver, totally different characteristics.

The dealer is going to investigate what may be the cause. Is it the hardware? The software? Or just one of those things when tolerances stack up well, or are at the limits and the results are different in use?

I personally don’t believe BMW have designed in hesitation, ‘cause and effect’ certainly is involved. How much a driver assists this ‘hesitation’ is where I’d like to see some evidence established.

BTW, I've driven three F10 auto examples, two 530d and a 335i, none displayed any strange auto characteristics, no hesitation.

HighlandPete
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2011, 06:14 AM   #26
BMWrules7
Lieutenant Colonel
306
Rep
1,684
Posts

Drives: 2015, 740 LdX, Alpine White
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Boston Area

iTrader: (0)

The safety delay exists on the 750.

Quote:
Originally Posted by delvek View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvolutionTheory View Post
I meant for those that have the issue, they agree it's not a "feature" but a problem. Your two F10's don't cancel out the others who have felt this, including myself.
Oh, also this seems to just be on the 535i, definitely not the 550, and I'm not sure about the other models.
Ah, no problem I didnt catch the 535i only part, I did do a little scan reading.
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2011, 06:46 AM   #27
Needsdecaf
Major General
Needsdecaf's Avatar
6359
Rep
6,569
Posts

Drives: 2024 G80 Comp xDrive
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: The Woodlands, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
The safety delay exists on the 750.
There is no safety delay.
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2011, 07:14 AM   #28
Needsdecaf
Major General
Needsdecaf's Avatar
6359
Rep
6,569
Posts

Drives: 2024 G80 Comp xDrive
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: The Woodlands, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
For those of us with quick acting neurons we recognize a delay. For those with less responsive neurons I suggest you use a clock.
So now you’ve resorted to step one in an internet “argument”: as soon as someone calls you out on a patently false statement, insult them. Good job. Try reading what was written, most people are acknowledging that there is a delay. But where most are saying it’s an issue or a bug, you are saying it’s a “safety feature”. Which, I am sorry, is just not correct.

Oh, for the record, I’m an engineer and have run dozens of measured experiments in my life in the lab. I’ve also conducted experiments in the field, on motor vehicles. Have you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
Sure. You only believe things that BMW says.

Why would BMW disclose to anyone that their cars have a built in latency on the accelerator as a means to improve safety?

BMW will never admit it. Unless, of course they get sued for a runaway gas pedal accident. If they ever had such a lawsuit and they did not settle then you might find some juicy testimony in the record

Most people don't complain about the delay. But BMW is not going to tell anyone about this feature unless they get sued from a related accident.

Finally, just because BMW won't say what I am saying does not make my point false. You don't have to believe me. Nevertheless, lack of BMW's blessing does not somehow invalidate my points that the latency is an intentional safety feature of the throttle system.
Ah, and the second tenet of an internet “argument”. When you’re wrong, change the subject, or at least change the point of your discussion. So now we’ve gone from “it’s a safety delay” to, “we’re imagining the delay and BMW isn’t going to tell us there is one”. I see.

And when you say that “most people don’t complain about the delay”, how do you explain the article above written by Edmunds Inside Line? Or the countless other mentions in other magazines?

Yes, Virginia, there is a delay. But it should NOT be there. Moreover, it is NOT there when the transmission is put into Sport mode. I tried this out again this morning and found that, again, the issue went away.

Now, I do believe you that the programming of the drive by wire does have some manipulation to it. I am sure that there is smoothing of the initial input programmed into the logic. Of course you would want to not have a direct relationship at initial tip in. However, I would suggest that either you have never experienced the laaag….SLAM that others here have experienced or you have pulled the wool over your eyes for some reason.
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2011, 08:10 AM   #29
DChaffins
New Member
4
Rep
27
Posts

Drives: 2011 535
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Atlanta

iTrader: (0)

Rules....the idea that the delay is also found on the 750 does not make me feel better. Bottomline, this is (was) to be the "Ultimate Driving Machine." And, frankly, my last BMW may have well been. If I find out this is a safety issue designed in the car, I will never return to this brand.

I understand that my tollerance for this issue may be less than others......I guess I was expecting better from a company that is known for pleasurable driving. I find it hard to believe that this is a matter of the F10 owner learning to drive the car. That IS BS......

I have two problems here. 1. If BMW is working on a solution or can offer advice to me as an owner as to how to drive the car to solve the problem, fine, I can wait/learn. 2. Without such advice, I am left deciding if I can live with the car or not. I earlier decided to trade and lick my wounds. That was fine until my dealership offered a full $16K less than I paid for the car 7 months ago! As it stands, I wish you luck when you decide to trade cars. With articles like Edmunds being published, we are all going to have a problem down the road when the "safety issue" on the F10 becomes common knowledge.
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2011, 08:24 AM   #30
DuneMan
Private First Class
34
Rep
144
Posts

Drives: 2011 535i, Sophisto Gray
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Arabia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DChaffins View Post
Rules....the idea that the delay is also found on the 750 does not make me feel better. Bottomline, this is (was) to be the "Ultimate Driving Machine." And, frankly, my last BMW may have well been. If I find out this is a safety issue designed in the car, I will never return to this brand.

I understand that my tollerance for this issue may be less than others......I guess I was expecting better from a company that is known for pleasurable driving. I find it hard to believe that this is a matter of the F10 owner learning to drive the car. That IS BS......

I have two problems here. 1. If BMW is working on a solution or can offer advice to me as an owner as to how to drive the car to solve the problem, fine, I can wait/learn. 2. Without such advice, I am left deciding if I can live with the car or not. I earlier decided to trade and lick my wounds. That was fine until my dealership offered a full $16K less than I paid for the car 7 months ago! As it stands, I wish you luck when you decide to trade cars. With articles like Edmunds being published, we are all going to have a problem down the road when the "safety issue" on the F10 becomes common knowledge.

well put.
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2011, 08:38 AM   #31
BMWrules7
Lieutenant Colonel
306
Rep
1,684
Posts

Drives: 2015, 740 LdX, Alpine White
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Boston Area

iTrader: (0)

Look, I did not mean to insult you.

The more you try to dispel my argument the more you keep making my argument for me. I have not changed my position, but it sure seems like you have.

The delay is in all late model BMW vehicles. This is a safety delay.

BMW concedes the delay is normal.

I have presented evidence to show that other safety related features take human factors into consideration.

I don't care that if you buy my argument. The funny thing is that everything you said supports my argument.

You keep asking BMW to fix something that's not broken. Like it or not it's a feature. The delay is intentional. BMW may reduce the delay on m series cars for competitive reasons, I don't know.

Look, if you really want BMW to get rid of or reduce the safety delay then you should create a metric called "pedal response" that measures this specific latency.

Next, get all of the car companies to cooperate and reveal their metrics. Then you might effectuate a change in design. But, you could build data on your own without cooperation.

This problem is similar in a small way to the speeds published for laser printers. Some manufacturers would make performance claims about their laser printers. For example, some would claim 50 pages per minute. But, the first page out was really slow. Once the printer got going then it would hit its rated speed.

Some people only printed a page or two on these fast printers but had to wait until the fuser heated up and this took a lot longer for the first page out.

The industry responded by creating a metric called "first page out".

This soon resulted in laser printers that would immediately print the first page. And life was good.

The same goes for BMW. Create a metric that is used to compare vehicles across the board regarding the initial pedal latency and I am sure BMW will finally address this issue once and for all.

But, for now the safety delay stands.

Since you claim to be an engineer, I suggest you direct your energy into solving the problem rather than trashing my posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
For those of us with quick acting neurons we recognize a delay. For those with less responsive neurons I suggest you use a clock.
So now you’ve resorted to step one in an internet “argument”: as soon as someone calls you out on a patently false statement, insult them. Good job. Try reading what was written, most people are acknowledging that there is a delay. But where most are saying it’s an issue or a bug, you are saying it’s a “safety feature”. Which, I am sorry, is just not correct.

Oh, for the record, IÂ’m an engineer and have run dozens of measured experiments in my life in the lab. IÂ’ve also conducted experiments in the field, on motor vehicles. Have you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
Sure. You only believe things that BMW says.

Why would BMW disclose to anyone that their cars have a built in latency on the accelerator as a means to improve safety?

BMW will never admit it. Unless, of course they get sued for a runaway gas pedal accident. If they ever had such a lawsuit and they did not settle then you might find some juicy testimony in the record

Most people don't complain about the delay. But BMW is not going to tell anyone about this feature unless they get sued from a related accident.

Finally, just because BMW won't say what I am saying does not make my point false. You don't have to believe me. Nevertheless, lack of BMW's blessing does not somehow invalidate my points that the latency is an intentional safety feature of the throttle system.
Ah, and the second tenet of an internet “argument”. When you’re wrong, change the subject, or at least change the point of your discussion. So now we’ve gone from “it’s a safety delay” to, “we’re imagining the delay and BMW isn’t going to tell us there is one”. I see.

And when you say that “most people don’t complain about the delay”, how do you explain the article above written by Edmunds Inside Line? Or the countless other mentions in other magazines?

Yes, Virginia, there is a delay. But it should NOT be there. Moreover, it is NOT there when the transmission is put into Sport mode. I tried this out again this morning and found that, again, the issue went away.

Now, I do believe you that the programming of the drive by wire does have some manipulation to it. I am sure that there is smoothing of the initial input programmed into the logic. Of course you would want to not have a direct relationship at initial tip in. However, I would suggest that either you have never experienced the laaagÂ….SLAM that others here have experienced or you have pulled the wool over your eyes for some reason.
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2011, 08:42 AM   #32
BMWrules7
Lieutenant Colonel
306
Rep
1,684
Posts

Drives: 2015, 740 LdX, Alpine White
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Boston Area

iTrader: (0)

D, these are awesome cars. It is a small price to pay for such awesome engineering. You will adjust to it. It can be annoying once in a while, but that is not often.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DChaffins View Post
Rules....the idea that the delay is also found on the 750 does not make me feel better. Bottomline, this is (was) to be the "Ultimate Driving Machine." And, frankly, my last BMW may have well been. If I find out this is a safety issue designed in the car, I will never return to this brand.

I understand that my tollerance for this issue may be less than others......I guess I was expecting better from a company that is known for pleasurable driving. I find it hard to believe that this is a matter of the F10 owner learning to drive the car. That IS BS......

I have two problems here. 1. If BMW is working on a solution or can offer advice to me as an owner as to how to drive the car to solve the problem, fine, I can wait/learn. 2. Without such advice, I am left deciding if I can live with the car or not. I earlier decided to trade and lick my wounds. That was fine until my dealership offered a full $16K less than I paid for the car 7 months ago! As it stands, I wish you luck when you decide to trade cars. With articles like Edmunds being published, we are all going to have a problem down the road when the "safety issue" on the F10 becomes common knowledge.
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2011, 09:00 AM   #33
Needsdecaf
Major General
Needsdecaf's Avatar
6359
Rep
6,569
Posts

Drives: 2024 G80 Comp xDrive
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: The Woodlands, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
Look, I did not mean to insult you.

The more you try to dispel my argument the more you keep making my argument for me. I have not changed my position, but it sure seems like you have.

The delay is in all late model BMW vehicles. This is a safety delay.

BMW concedes the delay is normal.

I have presented evidence to show that other safety related features take human factors into consideration.

I don't care that if you buy my argument. The funny thing is that everything you said supports my argument.

You keep asking BMW to fix something that's not broken. Like it or not it's a feature. The delay is intentional. BMW may reduce the delay on m series cars for competitive reasons, I don't know.

Look, if you really want BMW to get rid of or reduce the safety delay then you should create a metric called "pedal response" that measures this specific latency.

Next, get all of the car companies to cooperate and reveal their metrics. Then you might effectuate a change in design. But, you could build data on your own without cooperation.

This problem is similar in a small way to the speeds published for laser printers. Some manufacturers would make performance claims about their laser printers. For example, some would claim 50 pages per minute. But, the first page out was really slow. Once the printer got going then it would hit its rated speed.

Some people only printed a page or two on these fast printers but had to wait until the fuser heated up and this took a lot longer for the first page out.

The industry responded by creating a metric called "first page out".

This soon resulted in laser printers that would immediately print the first page. And life was good.

The same goes for BMW. Create a metric that is used to compare vehicles across the board regarding the initial pedal latency and I am sure BMW will finally address this issue once and for all.

But, for now the safety delay stands.

Since you claim to be an engineer, I suggest you direct your energy into solving the problem rather than trashing my posts.
I give up. You're just not going to get it. If you think what I am typing has supported your argument, then you either don't understand what I'm saying or don't want to: that "delay" is an issue. It's not intentional. As I said, you likely haven't experienced it, unless you think being slammed back in your seat is supposed to be how the car operates.

There is no such delay in the two 2011 328i's that I put approximately 500 miles on as loaners. Also, when my car went in to have all of the transmission adaptive parameters re-set, the car was much smoother for the first week. It has since returned to being very abrupt on takeoff. Something tells me you haven't experienced what others have.
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2011, 09:18 AM   #34
LuvMyE92
Occasionally frequent poster
LuvMyE92's Avatar
2994
Rep
2,742
Posts

Drives: CT5V-Blackwing
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: RTP NC, USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
The delay is in all late model BMW vehicles.
False. Have you driven every single late model BMW vehicle in every transmission configuration? If not, then listen to the people who have driven at least two different cars and have discrete data rather than opinions based on a guess.

Quote:
This is a safety delay.
That's your assumption. Which means that it is not a fact, except maybe to you. Unless you actually wrote the code.

Your initial premise is wrong, and regardless of how much you type and try to defend your hypothesis, you'll never convince anyone who recognizes the fact that you are simply incorrect. A hypothesis based upon a falsehood is not going to sway many people.
__________________
Current inventory:
F22 & G05
Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing w/3 pedals
Past: E24,E28(3),E34,E36,E37,E38(2),E39(4),E46,E89,E92 (obviously),F01,F06,F10,F30,F87,G12,G30(2),G82(2)
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2011, 09:23 AM   #35
BMWrules7
Lieutenant Colonel
306
Rep
1,684
Posts

Drives: 2015, 740 LdX, Alpine White
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Boston Area

iTrader: (0)

Sniff. You can't handle the truth that your bimmer isn't giving you all the performance it possibly could.

Thank goodness for that as the safety delay protects us losers from the likes of people like you on the road.

Now, this was humor meant in good fun so please don't take this personally and flip out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyE92 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
The delay is in all late model BMW vehicles.
False. Have you driven every single late model BMW vehicle in every transmission configuration? If not, then listen to the people who have driven at least two different cars and have discrete data rather than opinions based on a guess.

Quote:
This is a safety delay.
That's your assumption. Which means that it is not a fact, except maybe to you. Unless you actually wrote the code.

Your initial premise is wrong, and regardless of how much you type and try to defend your hypothesis, you'll never convince anyone who recognizes the fact that you are simply incorrect. A hypothesis based upon a falsehood is not going to sway many people.
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2011, 10:46 AM   #36
BobRBob
Private First Class
BobRBob's Avatar
Canada
2
Rep
100
Posts

Drives: 2017 540ix, Dark Graphite
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Well, I just hope my 528i doesn't exhibit this behavior when I finally get it. I didn't notice any problem with either the 528i or the 535xi when I test drove them. If it's as bad as it sounds, you'd think I would have noticed as I was looking for issues with throttle and steering.
__________________
2017 540ix Dark Graphite Metallic/Ivory/Black Dakota
Previous
2014 535ix Imperial Blue/Oyster, Comfort Seats
2011 528i Cashmere Silver/Black Dakota
2001 530i Sport (deceased)
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2011, 11:10 AM   #37
BMWrules7
Lieutenant Colonel
306
Rep
1,684
Posts

Drives: 2015, 740 LdX, Alpine White
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Boston Area

iTrader: (0)

It is not that bad. Enjoy your new car!



Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRBob View Post
Well, I just hope my 528i doesn't exhibit this behavior when I finally get it. I didn't notice any problem with either the 528i or the 535xi when I test drove them. If it's as bad as it sounds, you'd think I would have noticed as I was looking for issues with throttle and steering.
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2011, 11:26 AM   #38
DChaffins
New Member
4
Rep
27
Posts

Drives: 2011 535
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Atlanta

iTrader: (0)

BMWrules7,

I have always chuckled when reading about people "drinking the BMW kool-aid." However, I am now certain you are selling the stuff.......
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2011, 12:09 PM   #39
BMWrules7
Lieutenant Colonel
306
Rep
1,684
Posts

Drives: 2015, 740 LdX, Alpine White
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Boston Area

iTrader: (0)

I see your point. I can see how the safety delay might drive an experienced car enthusiast freaking
nuts.

I do drink the BMW cool aide. At the same time I have no problem highlighting a deficiency such as the delay.

Any well engineered product is the result of a series of compromises. BMW is no exception.

For the general driver, like me, the safety delay is not too bothersome. So, I would hate for somebody else to avoid BMW because of this feature.

But, I have put well over 600,000 miles on late model bimmers during the past 15 years. This is probably a lot less than many on this board. But, I don't think I qualify as a newbie. Maybe I am just too stupid to understand all of these complex concepts.

Nonetheless, I lived through the transition to fly by wire accelerator during this time and this safety delay has been present since day 1.

Again, you are correct in that I can be a walking advertisement for BMW. But, the beauty of these boards is that smart guys like you can smell people like me a mile away!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DChaffins View Post
BMWrules7,

I have always chuckled when reading about people "drinking the BMW kool-aid." However, I am now certain you are selling the stuff.......
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2011, 12:21 PM   #40
DuneMan
Private First Class
34
Rep
144
Posts

Drives: 2011 535i, Sophisto Gray
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Arabia

iTrader: (0)

My car is now at the shop for the 4th time in just 8 months - to fix this jerking and hesitation... My dealer acknowledges it as an issue that needs to be fixed. There's a PuMA case open for it. So far no one at BMW said it was normal behavior.

I have a 320 loaner now, and the throttle is very smooth, and reacts as expected. Just like all previous loaners.
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2011, 01:01 PM   #41
grimlock
Colonel
716
Rep
2,003
Posts

Drives: F10 N52B30@255PS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hong Kong

iTrader: (0)

I too enjoy reading alternative viewpoints, as critics always have a point..

btw, after some 'testing' in my car today, a few pts:
1.its very hard to test in sandals, with coffee in the car (note to self..)
2. it did feel 'unnatural', but being subjective, it requires a side-by-side comparison, with the contested point highlighted
3. i could make myself annoyed by whatever perceivable or imagined lag there is
4. but i quickly reverted to being pleased immensely with the car, as i normally am
5. programmed safety lag, if present can easily overlooked, adjusted to..

6.side-by-side comparison would easily answer this question
(but it does not bother me, so its for others to solve..thank you for reading)
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2011, 01:07 PM   #42
Needsdecaf
Major General
Needsdecaf's Avatar
6359
Rep
6,569
Posts

Drives: 2024 G80 Comp xDrive
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: The Woodlands, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
It is not that bad. Enjoy your new car!
Then you have not experienced what others have.

Given you do not even have an F10 with the 8 speed auto, I am not surprised.

It IS that bad.

And to your point that a "non-enthusiast" would not tolerate it, my wife (who did not even tell me that her car was shaking so badly at 70 mph as to physically set a water bottle moving) finds it more bothersome than I do.
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2011, 01:16 PM   #43
grimlock
Colonel
716
Rep
2,003
Posts

Drives: F10 N52B30@255PS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hong Kong

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
her car was shaking so badly at 70 mph as to physically set a water bottle moving)
forget the dealer, you need an exorcist!
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2011, 01:24 PM   #44
BMWrules7
Lieutenant Colonel
306
Rep
1,684
Posts

Drives: 2015, 740 LdX, Alpine White
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Boston Area

iTrader: (0)

Excellent research and conclusions Mr. Trimming!

Quote:
Originally Posted by grimlock View Post
I too enjoy reading alternative viewpoints, as critics always have a point..

btw, after some 'testing' in my car today, a few pts:
1.its very hard to test in sandals, with coffee in the car (note to self..)
2. it did feel 'unnatural', but being subjective, it requires a side-by-side comparison, with the contested point highlighted
3. i could make myself annoyed by whatever perceivable or imagined lag there is
4. but i quickly reverted to being pleased immensely with the car, as i normally am
5. programmed safety lag, if present can easily overlooked, adjusted to..

6.side-by-side comparison would easily answer this question
(but it does not bother me, so its for others to solve..thank you for reading)
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:47 PM.




5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST