[Takumi587]

Just curious to see if anyone else feels the cabin road noise is bit loud on the highway? Compared to my E500 I had in the past it was a quieter and had a softer ride.

So, is this because of the Goodyear run flats? This is my first car with run flats and I want to know if run flats cause a harsher ride and more road noise? I am thinking about changing them to Michelins.

Any feedback would seriously be appreciated.

[lsturbointeg]

i went from the Dunlop RF's and for me i think it's still the same when i went to regular tires. i will say if you wanna talk about "FEEL" than that's what i can tell you is the difference...much smoother and less vibrations on the steering wheel. the RF's just felt like i was driving on hard bricks at times.

[gspannu]

Originally Posted by Takumi587

Just curious to see if anyone else feels the cabin road noise is bit loud on the highway? Compared to my E500 I had in the past it was a quieter and had a softer ride.

So, is this because of the Goodyear run flats? This is my first car with run flats and I want to know if run flats cause a harsher ride and more road noise? I am thinking about changing them to Michelins.

Any feedback would seriously be appreciated.

Are you on 18" or 19"? Do you have VDC or Adaptive Drive?
The difference between RFT and Non RFT will be higher on 19" than 18". Also, if you have Adaptive Drive or VDC, the difference will be less noticeable.

Having said that, I doubt you will see a difference in noise levels.

What you will notice is a smoother ride, with the non RFT absorbing a lot of road imperfections.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by Takumi587

So, is this because of the Goodyear run flats?....This is my first car with run flats and I want to know if run flats cause a harsher ride and more road noise?

Yes, OEM Goodyear tires are horrible in every way possible, comfort, handling, wet traction and road noise. They also get progressively noisier as they wear down. Switching to non run flat tires will result in more comfortable, more precise and quieter ride. Whether that's going to be enough for you, hard to say. I personally have never found F10 cabin to be noisy place, far from it.

[cdmulders]

I switched from the Goodyear OEM all-season run flats to Michelin PSS non-runflats. Tire noise is about the same. The ride and handling are improved.

[bcw550ix]

I also went from the OEM Goodyear runflats to Michelin PSS and, though I don't recall a significant improvement in road noise, everything else got dramatically better. But, I also went from 19" wheels to 18" wheels so I could stop worrying about potholes.

[Takumi587]

Originally Posted by bcw550ix

I also went from the OEM Goodyear runflats to Michelin PSS and, though I don't recall a significant improvement in road noise, everything else got dramatically better. But, I also went from 19" wheels to 18" wheels so I could stop worrying about potholes.

I have 19s right now but I heard going down a size also improves ride quality and reduce sound in the cabin.

Originally Posted by cdmulders

I switched from the Goodyear OEM all-season run flats to Michelin PSS non-runflats. Tire noise is about the same. The ride and handling are improved.

The ride currently in the run flats when going over any bumps is pretty harsh IMO which is why I am considering the switch to Michelins.

My major concern is that I read on other threads that the car's suspension is designed for run flats only... Not sure how valid that is though.

[Takumi587]

Originally Posted by gspannu

Are you on 18" or 19"? Do you have VDC or Adaptive Drive?
The difference between RFT and Non RFT will be higher on 19" than 18". Also, if you have Adaptive Drive or VDC, the difference will be less noticeable.

Having said that, I doubt you will see a difference in noise levels.

What you will notice is a smoother ride, with the non RFT absorbing a lot of road imperfections.

I have 19s and I do not know whether I have VDC or AD? Almost positive it is just the stock suspension.

I am concerned because I read on other threads the F10 was meant to be run on run flats as opposed to non-run flat tires. Any idea how true that statement is?

[Stormbitch]

Yes it will if you choose a quiet tyre. Noting 2DB difference is almost double. I recently put quiet tyres on mine Michelin. Run flats on F10 is not loud... not sure what is going on with you. Non Runflats will be quieter and ride will be more special.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Takumi587

I am concerned because I read on other threads the F10 was meant to be run on run flats as opposed to non-run flat tires. Any idea how true that statement is?

Suspensions are tuned to the RFTs, so you will have a different set of compromises on non run-flats. May not be all negative, if you are after a softer ride, you'll get that, but a softer ride will also soften other suspension and handling responses.

I changed to non run-flats on my E91, kept to the same wheel size. Ride quality improved but standard damping was compromised, was too soft. To get the real BMW feel back to the chassis, changed dampers to improve the body control. Tires on their own may not give you the chassis you are after. But may well be good enough and suit your priorities.

On my F11 535i I have Adaptive Drive and 18" RFTs. I've stuck with then and replaced like for like, quieter on the new tires (as is typically the case for most tires). One reason, I run 17" winter RFTs which are a softer ride by comparison to the 18" summer tires. I wouldn't want to be any softer than the 17" RF winter tires. At least with AD or VDC you have a wider working envelope (even on RFTs) and can set the suspension to suit your drive and conditions.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Stormbitch

Yes it will if you choose a quiet tyre. Noting 2DB difference is almost double. I recently put quiet tyres on mine Michelin. Run flats on F10 is not loud... not sure what is going on with you. Non Runflats will be quieter and ride will be more special.

The problem with the EU tyre noise level test, it is a drive by figure, which doesn't always translate to the same differences in the cabin, as other noise transmission factors come into play.

I was discussing this with a tire dealer a while back and they find it is not consistent, a tire with a quiet rating can be just as noisy within the car, as one with a higher noise rating. They find it is more the qualities of the car which absorbs the noise, different tires not always having the desired sound levels. Talking of the F10/11, the guy reckoned I'd hardly tell the difference across the tires available for the car. Not saying there won't be a difference inside the cabin, but not always what we are hoping for.

[Takumi587]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Suspensions are tuned to the RFTs, so you will have a different set of compromises on non run-flats. May not be all negative, if you are after a softer ride, you'll get that, but a softer ride will also soften other suspension and handling responses.

I changed to non run-flats on my E91, kept to the same wheel size. Ride quality improved but standard damping was compromised, was too soft. To get the real BMW feel back to the chassis, changed dampers to improve the body control. Tires on their own may not give you the chassis you are after. But may well be good enough and suit your priorities.

On my F11 535i I have Adaptive Drive and 18" RFTs. I've stuck with then and replaced like for like, quieter on the new tires (as is typically the case for most tires). One reason, I run 17" winter RFTs which are a softer ride by comparison to the 18" summer tires. I wouldn't want to be any softer than the 17" RF winter tires. At least with AD or VDC you have a wider working envelope (even on RFTs) and can set the suspension to suit your drive and conditions.

Thanks for the info Pete. Based on most of the responses on here and a few reps I spoke to at Tire shops on the phone I think I will just stick with the Goodyear RFTs until they are ready to be changed out. My BMW service advisor also advised that the suspension is set for the RFTs.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by Takumi587

Thanks for the info Pete. Based on most of the responses on here and a few reps I spoke to at Tire shops on the phone I think I will just stick with the Goodyear RFTs until they are ready to be changed out. My BMW service advisor also advised that the suspension is set for the RFTs.

Sounds like your mind is made up, but honestly, life's too short to be driving car like F10 on those tires. There's so much better out there even if you're sticking with run flats.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I changed to non run-flats on my E91, kept to the same wheel size. Ride quality improved but standard damping was compromised, was too soft. To get the real BMW feel back to the chassis, changed dampers to improve the body control.

For once I don't fully agree with you .

Not that this wasn't true for your E91, but that this is too general statement to apply to F10 and all other models as well. Like everything else, it'll depend on the tire you get as replacement. As someone pointed this to me while ago, the only fair test would be to have exactly the same brand and model of tire, one RF and other not. Yes, run flats have firmer sidewalls, but I don't think this makes the ride better in any way, not for me personally on F10.

Originally Posted by Takumi587

...My BMW service advisor also advised that the suspension is set for the RFTs.

This one made me chuckle.
Of course he did

Seriously though, I'm sure there are some great RF tires to be had, Goodyear just isn't one of them. My winter Dunlops are actually quite good, and they are RF. I have no issues with noise, comfort or harsh ride with those. They are however still wearing quicker than regular tires and are more expensive to buy. And at the end of the day, still may not get me to safety, depending on type of blowout.

[lsturbointeg]

I will say for me switching to non RF's and my KW's improved the overall ride quality than when I was stock on RF's

[Takumi587]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

Sounds like your mind is made up, but honestly, life's too short to be driving car like F10 on those tires. There's so much better out there even if you're sticking with run flats.

You have me re-considering now. What dunlop tires do you have and what size wheels? I may do a little more research and consider them. All my past BMWs came with Michelin's A/S or PSS.

As far as cabin noise I think you are right that I am overthinking the road noise and it may truly just be the sound quality from the speakers in my car. I have the standard speakers and now researching here on the forum about others recommendations. I read Bavauto speakers stage1 was a good upgrade.

In any event, thanks for the info and let me know what dunlop tires you are running. I may give that a try.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

For once I don't fully agree with you .

Not that this wasn't true for your E91, but that this is too general statement to apply to F10 and all other models as well. Like everything else, it'll depend on the tire you get as replacement. As someone pointed this to me while ago, the only fair test would be to have exactly the same brand and model of tire, one RF and other not. Yes, run flats have firmer sidewalls, but I don't think this makes the ride better in any way, not for me personally on F10.

Not sure what you are not agreeing with. Changing from run-flats did improve the secondary ride quality, simply that there were other compromises to the move. One being the car lost some of the primary control, sorted with a higher performance damper.

I totally agree that different tires will have varied performance, ride quality, etc. I'm on Continental Sport Contact 3 SSR, they are good high performance summer tires both in run-flat and non run-flat applications. The SSR won't be as good a ride as the non run-flat, I know that. But how much difference and what value against the negatives, including the run-on-flat capability, without carrying a spare wheel, is all in the calculation to carry on with run-flats, after the issues in the E91.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Not sure what you are not agreeing with. Changing from run-flats did improve the secondary ride quality, simply that there were other compromises to the move. One being the car lost some of the primary control, sorted with a higher performance damper.

OK, I need to change my wording on that. Since I joined the forums here I read many of your posts and felt all were "right on" and more important backed up by facts. So it's not really disagreeing with what you said, as all of it is in fact correct. I'm just thinking statement like “these cars are tuned for RF tires”, while true, will scare OP off from giving regular tires a fair chance (I think every owner should at least try what it's like to drive modern BMW without RF).

You are correct though, sidewall on RF is stiffer, and cars are tuned for RF tires. But for me that does not make them better handling tire in any area no matter the suspension. There’s no universal agreement among BMW owners which is better to use (the whole “no spare” silliness scares many to move away from RF), but I think most agree regular tires handle better.

It’s not like properly matched regular tire on F10 is anywhere close to folding or will introduce body roll when pushed. In fact it’ll make your rear end more planted by not harshly "skipping" over the bumps in higher speed turns. In my experience, these are more comfortable, have more grip, quitter, connect you with the road way more than RF, cheaper to replace, don’t wear as fast and don’t bubble as easily on impact. Add “safety” tire inflation kit to your car and you’re still not at the cost of replacing RF tires. And both RF and this kit may, or may not get you to your destination or closest service center.

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

But how much difference and what value against the negatives, including the run-on-flat capability, without carrying a spare wheel, is all in the calculation to carry on with run-flats, after the issues in the E91.

Safety of RF in my personal opinion is heavily overplayed argument. You know what else gets you to your destination (not to the first shop), good old fashioned full size spare tire in the trunk.

Some, maybe all (not sure??) M cars don’t come with RF tires, just safety kit and I don’t think that’s coincidence. Different suspension, sure, but these in theory go faster than “regular” BMWs on daily basis, if safety is concern, shouldn’t they have them too? People have been going high speeds on autobahn and race tracks way before run flat tires were ever considered.

I had unfortunate opportunity to ride on busted run flat with my family in the car, and it worked out great. But I also got to experience this specifically due to RF (pothole hit caused a bubble which burst soon after). Had the sidewall damage been any bigger I’d be stuck on the lake, in the woods, same way I now may get stuck if my Continental "ContiKomfort" kit fails me... no guaranties in life, with or without RF.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by Takumi587

You have me re-considering now. What dunlop tires do you have and what size wheels? I may do a little more research and consider them. All my past BMWs came with Michelin's A/S or PSS.

You should be re-considering, Goodyear LS2 are pure garbage, and I usually don't say that lightly about any product I used, even those I didn't like.

Both summer and winter, I use 18" wheels and OEM tire sizes.
I wanted to go "size down" for winter, it just didn't work out.

My winter run flats are Dunlop SP Sport 3D DSST and are great, except maybe for wearing a bit quicker than I'd like. For all season and F10 according to owner feedback new Michelin A/S is quite good and for performance PSS is considered to be the best by most.

I'm currently on Bridgestone Potenza S-04 and carry Continental kit in the trunk. Not exactly thrilled about riding with no spare, but given how much I like the car, it's a compromise I chose to (grudgingly) accept. I like these, but they too wear pretty fast. It's ultra performance summer tires, so, it's to be expected I guess.

[Nalod]

spare really does not take up much room. My RF's are leaving in the fall.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Nalod

spare really does not take up much room. My RF's are leaving in the fall.

I tried the full spare in the trunk space in my E91, took up too much room as I often needed the full space for luggage for 4-adults. As I still had my run-flat set, I even swapped the wheels, put the run-flat set back on when needing the car for a few days with passengers and luggage. Not the way to easily run a vehicle in my experience.

It is one reason why I've opted to stay with run-flats this time around, as the F10/11 wheel is even larger, takes a big part of the F11 trunk.

[Takumi587]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

You should be re-considering, Goodyear LS2 are pure garbage, and I usually don't say that lightly about any product I used, even those I didn't like.

Both summer and winter, I use 18" wheels and OEM tire sizes.
I wanted to go "size down" for winter, it just didn't work out.

My winter run flats are Dunlop SP Sport 3D DSST and are great, except maybe for wearing a bit quicker than I'd like. For all season and F10 according to owner feedback new Michelin A/S is quite good and for performance PSS is considered to be the best by most.

I'm currently on Bridgestone Potenza S-04 and carry Continental kit in the trunk. Not exactly thrilled about riding with no spare, but given how much I like the car, it's a compromise I chose to (grudgingly) accept. I like these, but they too wear pretty fast. It's ultra performance summer tires, so, it's to be expected I guess.

Thanks I will actually look into the Potenza's since it is summer time coming up. I am used to having no spare in the trunk. The BMW tire kit that injects fluid into the tire to make it last is totally not worth it. Used it on my car few years back when tire had a nail and found out that the tire can't be repaired once that fluid is in there. The fluid was such a PITA to clean off the rims once the tire was pulled off as well. If tire has an issue I just pull over and call AAA to tow the car now.