[Karrera4]

BMW is not the "only" company doing start/stop. As someone said, Porsche is doing it as well in their Panamera and Cayenne's. Its annoying and I agree, has to put undo stress on the engine. I always thought starting and stopping used more gas than just letting it idle but maybe that has changed. Also, these companies are doing these things because governments are forcing them to adhere to higher and higher mileage standards...so it is in fact politics that is leading to overzeolous idiots at the EPA and beyond trying to mandate ridiculous rules with the hopes of appeasing the environmentally emotional crowds.

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by NYCE90DRIVER

...BMW NEEDS to know this...

Well, why don't you tell them. I'm sure they'll act on your recommendations with alacrity, especially if you state them as aggressively as in your other posts on the issue

[BMWrules7]

Dude,

You were the one to bring up Fox News ya big dork.

Why don't you practice what you preach!

Anyway, you need to chill so as to prevent your type A personality from self destructing by age twelve.

Originally Posted by NYCE90DRIVER

Who are you... The Miss Manners of the F10 Forum ?

I don't owe anyone an apology. His "Political Views" are irrelevant and have no place here. I asked a question about a specific issue and THAT is what should have addressed. BMW is the only one doing this right now and it has not been mandated by any Government. I am sick of people insinuating politics into everything. There are good and bad ways to be "Green"... and this is (at least with present technology) a BAD way... and BMW needs to know about it.

[NYF32DRIVER]

Originally Posted by BMWrules7

Dude,

You were the one to bring up Fox News ya big dork.

Why don't you practice what you preach!

Anyway, you need to chill so as to prevent your type A personality from self destructing by age twelve.

Nice try, but extremely childish, inarticulate and as irrelevant to the original question as your "friend" was... which is not a surprise. Thankfully there are some adults on this board who can actually provide some useful information and opinions.

BTW, I was 12 THIRTY years ago and Im still here : )

[OrangeDeep]

Why is everybody so hostile on this thread?

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by OrangeDeep

Why is everybody so hostile on this thread?

I think the engine quitting all the time gets on people's nerves.

[karmakal]

Maybe some day BMW will give us the possibility to set the default through the iDrive menu. Then everyone will be happy ^^

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by karmakal

Maybe some day BMW will give us the possibility to set the default through the iDrive menu. Then everyone will be happy ^^

Unlikely. How can the mfr claim the benefits for regulatory purposes when drivers can so easily opt out? Same goes for permanent selection of Sport mode.

[NYF32DRIVER]

Originally Posted by karmakal

Maybe some day BMW will give us the possibility to set the default through the iDrive menu. Then everyone will be happy ^^

That's ALL I am asking for !!!

[dpwr]

people who buy bmw's don't really care to save few bucks on fuel, if I wanted fuel economy I would buy honda civic, this 4 cylinders and auto stop is ridiculous... and to have that option start by default is even more retarded...

[rmastale]

Originally Posted by dpwr

people who buy bmw's don't really care to save few bucks on fuel, if I wanted fuel economy I would buy honda civic, this 4 cylinders and auto stop is ridiculous... and to have that option start by default is even more retarded...

Agreed that the auto start thingy is not ideal; but to say people who buy bmws don't want economy is; well; not informed. Even the M5 buyer's and V8 owners certainly wish they had better fuel economy. But all you have to really look at is what segment sells best; and a major component of that is price point and economy.

What a bad brand move it would be if that was the attitude of companies like BMW and other luxury car makers. It's like intel saying; if you really want that fast processor then we'll just ignore the power consumption it takes; versus innovating and getting both right.

[dpwr]

Originally Posted by rmastale

Agreed that the auto start thingy is not ideal; but to say people who buy bmws don't want economy is; well; not informed. Even the M5 buyer's and V8 owners certainly wish they had better fuel economy. But all you have to really look at is what segment sells best; and a major component of that is price point and economy.

What a bad brand move it would be if that was the attitude of companies like BMW and other luxury car makers. It's like intel saying; if you really want that fast processor then we'll just ignore the power consumption it takes; versus innovating and getting both right.

let's not get it overblown, when I said "save few bucks" I was referring to approx. 25mpg vs 28mpg which is not a huge deal, most people on this board would take NA i6 with no auto stop/start with 25mpg vs turbo 4 with auto stop/start with 28mpgs... i wasn't referring to a HUGE difference such as 20 mpg vs 30 mpg ... and intel increases number of cores 2/4,4/6,6/12 while bmw decreases number of cylinders

[alex_c]

Originally Posted by dpwr

let's not get it overblown, when I said "save few bucks" I was referring to approx. 25mpg vs 28mpg which is not a huge deal, most people on this board would take NA i6 with no auto stop/start with 25mpg vs turbo 4 with auto stop/start with 28mpgs... i wasn't referring to a HUGE difference such as 20 mpg vs 30 mpg ... and intel increases number of cores 2/4,4/6,6/12 while bmw decreases number of cylinders

Here is my empirical take on Auto Start/Stop:

When I had my 2011 535 (exactly same engine and same car as my 2012) I was getting 21.5 MPG on my daily commute.

After getting the 2012 and leaving the Auto Start/Stop function enabled (default) I'm now getting 24.7 MPG constantly.

Same commute, same traffic. If anything, I should be getting worst mileage on the new car being it is barely broken-in. Instead, I'm getting more than 3 MPG.

3 MPG may not sound like much, but if you consider that I use an average of 20 gallons per week (refill every 6 days), I'm getting about 60 miles per week more.

Multiply the 60 miles extra per week x 52 weeks / year and you get 3,120 extra miles per year.

That is more than 6 weeks of free gas every year, or around $510 per year in gas.

Given that there is NO maintenance or warranty costs for 4 years, I will save over $2,000 in those 4 years, and I don't care if the car needs a new starter, as it will be covered by warranty. Also, most likely I will trade it in at the end of the 4 years.

So, bottom line, I like it, it saves money and it is good for the environment.

BTW, it should be fairly easy to change the switch from a NO (Normally Open) circuit to an NC (Normally Closed) type with a very simple in-line circuit.

How much would YOU be willing to pay for this circuit?

[dpwr]

I see your point if you lease it, but many people buy it out after lease, or buy used one.... replacing turbos or a starter can end up costing way more

Originally Posted by alex_c

Here is my empirical take on Auto Start/Stop:

When I had my 2011 535 (exactly same engine and same car as my 2012) I was getting 21.5 MPG on my daily commute.

After getting the 2012 and leaving the Auto Start/Stop function enabled (default) I'm now getting 24.7 MPG constantly.

Same commute, same traffic. If anything, I should be getting worst mileage on the new car being it is barely broken-in. Instead, I'm getting more than 3 MPG.

3 MPG may not sound like much, but if you consider that I use an average of 20 gallons per week (refill every 6 days), I'm getting about 60 miles per week more.

Multiply the 60 miles extra per week x 52 weeks / year and you get 3,120 extra miles per year.

That is more than 6 weeks of free gas every year, or around $510 per year in gas.

Given that there is NO maintenance or warranty costs for 4 years, I will save over $2,000 in those 4 years, and I don't care if the car needs a new starter, as it will be covered by warranty. Also, most likely I will trade it in at the end of the 4 years.

So, bottom line, I like it, it saves money and it is good for the environment.

BTW, it should be fairly easy to change the switch from a NO (Normally Open) circuit to an NC (Normally Closed) type with a very simple in-line circuit.

How much would YOU be willing to pay for this circuit?

[rmastale]

Originally Posted by dpwr

let's not get it overblown, when I said "save few bucks" I was referring to approx. 25mpg vs 28mpg which is not a huge deal, most people on this board would take NA i6 with no auto stop/start with 25mpg vs turbo 4 with auto stop/start with 28mpgs... i wasn't referring to a HUGE difference such as 20 mpg vs 30 mpg ... and intel increases number of cores 2/4,4/6,6/12 while bmw decreases number of cylinders

haha on the intel point; but they increase power with a decrease in power consumption... That was my point. Totally agree on what people on the board would prefer; but we're probably a very small percentage of owners. I take your point on mild difference in mpgs and agree...

That's all.

[Crille]

The big point off auto start/stop is not to save some money for one person, it is for the environment, One car won’t make any big difference but if every new car had this it will make some serious difference.
Just look at Alex_C post if you multiply his number on all the new cars sold in the US it will be quite big numbers. I didn’t find any updated information but there were around 10 million new cars sold in 2009 in the United States. And then we have the rest of the world

I do not point to any morals to users in this thread that will turn off this function just making a point why you will see this in many cars in the future
I bought myself a 530i 2012 witch do not have this options

[M3776]

Hi, the dealer has the ability to have it default to off. Just bring it in and they can program it.
Cheers

[BMWrules7]

Right, now factor in that engines in the second hand markets will last half as long, plus all the energy and and environmental impact of having to build more engines completely offsets this moronic concept of killing your motor and restarting it.

Plus, emissions are more volatile during the first two minutes after engine start. Did anybody consider that?

I agree that stopping an engine at each extended traffic light will give better gas milage. But, the current motor design is not good enough to support such stresses long term.

Especially when you now change the oil once a year.

Time and statistics will tell us who is correct, right?

Originally Posted by Crille

The big point off auto start/stop is not to save some money for one person, it is for the environment, One car wonÂ’t make any big difference but if every new car had this it will make some serious difference.
Just look at Alex_C post if you multiply his number on all the new cars sold in the US it will be quite big numbers. I didnÂ’t find any updated information but there were around 10 million new cars sold in 2009 in the United States. And then we have the rest of the world

I do not point to any morals to users in this thread that will turn off this function just making a point why you will see this in many cars in the future
I bought myself a 530i 2012 witch do not have this options

[AlexK]

Originally Posted by BMWrules7

Right, now factor in that engines in the second hand markets will last half as long, plus all the energy and and environmental impact of having to build more engines completely offsets this moronic concept of killing your motor and restarting it.

Plus, emissions are more volatile during the first two minutes after engine start. Did anybody consider that?

I agree that stopping an engine at each extended traffic light will give better gas milage. But, the current motor design is not good enough to support such stresses long term.

Especially when you now change the oil once a year.

Time and statistics will tell us who is correct, right?

Yeap, all the environmental freaks (or anyone else "brainwashed" by the EPA's schemes) constantly refuse to "think outside of the box" and realize these facts. Just because the car manufacturers don't want you to know about them (especially if they are forced to by EPA and similar organizations around the world) doesn't mean it (the increased mechanical wear) doesn't actually happen.

Not to mention that in (supposedly) "freedom" - oriented countries/societies, the government is supposed to actually give people a choice and not try to constantly "force" all of the decisions upon them (like a personal choice of NOT driving (or paying for) a car with a bunch of forced ecology - oriented "band-aid" solutions)

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by BMWrules7

Right, now factor in that engines in the second hand markets will last half as long, plus all the energy and and environmental impact of having to build more engines completely offsets this moronic concept of killing your motor and restarting it.

Plus, emissions are more volatile during the first two minutes after engine start. Did anybody consider that?

I agree that stopping an engine at each extended traffic light will give better gas milage. But, the current motor design is not good enough to support such stresses long term.

Especially when you now change the oil once a year.

Time and statistics will tell us who is correct, right?

That's a load of nonsense. Sources, please!

[chmura]

I have a new us spec 2011 BMW M3 that has auto/stop feature and it is set to default off whenever I start the car. I never actually used the feature, but I am glad its off by default as I am never going to use it.

You might be able to code it to be off with a bmw scan tool.

[NYF32DRIVER]

Originally Posted by M3776

Hi, the dealer has the ability to have it default to off. Just bring it in and they can program it.
Cheers

... just curious...