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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 F10 Technical Topics Wheels / Tires / Suspension / Brakes Why is the F10 5-series suspension so great? Explanation by lead tuner.
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      04-13-2010, 10:53 AM   #45
ksquare
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yes, may be true that the toggle buttons will be there. even without both dynamic drive and dynamic damping.

i think i am getting a better understanding.

1) choose sports steering and 8 speed sports auto, you get the toggle buttons (normal and sports) but no effect on chassis, just changes to gear and steering feel. you get 3 settings. normal, sports, sports +.
2) add dynamic drive option, the buttons remain unchanged but you now get tightening of chassis when in sports mode
3) add adaptive drive, you also get dynamic drive (where the normal button now becomes comfort button). you get 4 different settings. comfort, normal, sports, sports +

Last edited by ksquare; 04-13-2010 at 11:05 AM..
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      04-13-2010, 10:56 AM   #46
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ps the toggle button is present in Sweden also without VDC and adaptive drive based on gorban's post

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showpost...0&postcount=31

This f10 is a complicated creature and the catalogue is not clear. My sales guy made some calls and took into account the toggle button in the f1 and Z4 with the documents available to advise me on the above. But I'll be requesting him to verify against the actual 535i switching on the screen to confirm.
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      04-13-2010, 11:10 AM   #47
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pps Another point, good to have the options list with the prices and serial numbers if you don't have it yet. Matters will be clearer. You mentioned the price of the f10 in HK. It is even more expensive here but the dynamic damping control option 223 costs about the same as the option you mentioned (but if it's only for the toggle button does not appear right to me).
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      04-13-2010, 11:31 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
pps Another point, good to have the options list with the prices and serial numbers if you don't have it yet. Matters will be clearer. You mentioned the price of the f10 in HK. It is even more expensive here but the dynamic damping control option 223 costs about the same as the option you mentioned (but if it's only for the toggle button does not appear right to me).
the HK$28k i mentioned is for the dynamic drive, not the dynamic damping.

Yes, its so confusing.....anyway, i'm gonna get the gt afterall.
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      04-13-2010, 11:49 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksquare View Post
the HK$28k i mentioned is for the dynamic drive, not the dynamic damping.

Yes, its so confusing.....anyway, i'm gonna get the gt afterall.
I understand. Is the dynamic drive for HK$28k referring to the anti-roll bar or the toggle button only?

Dynamic drive for the f1 series refer to the active anti-roll bar.
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      04-13-2010, 12:02 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksquare View Post

1) choose sports steering and 8 speed sports auto, you get the toggle buttons (normal and sports) but no effect on chassis, just changes to gear and steering feel. you get 3 settings. normal, sports, sports +.
Yup, that was confirmed by my SE/distributor's product manager today when I ordered the two options.
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      04-13-2010, 12:09 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
I managed to peek at it in Singapore (as it's not launched yet) and it has the toggle button. The base 535i here does not have VDC but has sport steering and 8 speed sport auto.
Lucky devil - you managed to peek at it Security was tight at PML Alexandra. My SE tried but couldn't sneak me in.

Did you manage to get any discount for the options?
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      04-13-2010, 12:17 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nfnc View Post
Lucky devil - you managed to peek at it Security was tight at PML Alexandra. My SE tried but couldn't sneak me in.

Did you manage to get any discount for the options?
No discount at all, option had even to be paid in full upfront. Did you hear of any discount?

Did your SE mention that the chassis can be tightened with option 223 dynamic damping control for $4,960 (ie option 2VA adaptive drive at $11,430 need not be chosen to tighten the chassis)? Also, is the only difference between option 2VA adaptive drive and option 223, the active anti-roll bar only?

My understanding is that with option 223, the i drive controller can configure the chassis and/or drivetrain like the 7 series.
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      04-13-2010, 12:31 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksquare View Post
yes, may be true that the toggle buttons will be there. even without both dynamic drive and dynamic damping.

i think i am getting a better understanding.

1) choose sports steering and 8 speed sports auto, you get the toggle buttons (normal and sports) but no effect on chassis, just changes to gear and steering feel. you get 3 settings. normal, sports, sports +.
2) add dynamic drive option, the buttons remain unchanged but you now get tightening of chassis when in sports mode
3) add adaptive drive, you also get dynamic drive (where the normal button now becomes comfort button). you get 4 different settings. comfort, normal, sports, sports +
For point 2) not add dynamic drive, option but dynamic damping/VDC option. Dynamic drive often refers to the anti-roll bar 229.

Please check with your sales agent as I'd like to be sure of the option.
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      04-13-2010, 02:05 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksquare View Post
yes, may be true that the toggle buttons will be there. even without both dynamic drive and dynamic damping.

i think i am getting a better understanding.

1) choose sports steering and 8 speed sports auto, you get the toggle buttons (normal and sports) but no effect on chassis, just changes to gear and steering feel. you get 3 settings. normal, sports, sports +.
2) add dynamic drive option, the buttons remain unchanged but you now get tightening of chassis when in sports mode
3) add adaptive drive, you also get dynamic drive (where the normal button now becomes comfort button). you get 4 different settings. comfort, normal, sports, sports +

Comfort comes with Dynamic Damping Control, and not Adaptive drive option (but DDC is included in Adaptive drive) !

Last edited by LMOR; 04-13-2010 at 04:02 PM..
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      04-13-2010, 07:22 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
No discount at all, option had even to be paid in full upfront. Did you hear of any discount?

Did your SE mention that the chassis can be tightened with option 223 dynamic damping control for $4,960 (ie option 2VA adaptive drive at $11,430 need not be chosen to tighten the chassis)? Also, is the only difference between option 2VA adaptive drive and option 223, the active anti-roll bar only?

My understanding is that with option 223, the i drive controller can configure the chassis and/or drivetrain like the 7 series.
Discount was like a swear word in PML's dictionary - seems like you don't get anything more than the standard discount even if you ordered 3+ cars. Guess the rising COE put paid to any margin that they had to sweeten deals
I am unsure as to what you mean by "tighten the chassis". With the Variable/Dynamic Damping Control (Option 223), the toggle allows you to do the same thing as for the 7 series. As you move from Comfort to Normal to Sport, the parameters change or, if you will, tighten.

FWIW, Autocar UK mentions that Option 223 is "Expensive but worth it, as it gives more sophisticated wheel control, better cabin isolation and improved body control". If this sounds like what you are seeking, then go for it.

Thing is, for the 535, AFAIK, Option 223 has to be ordered with 2VA (Adaptive Drive), which raises the cost by quite a bit.

You might just want to take a VDC equipped 7 series for a spin just to get a feel of how the Dynamic Driving Control affects the driving characteristics of the car.
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      04-13-2010, 09:35 PM   #56
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Thanks nfnc, tightening of the chassis as in the f1, the idrive can configure the chassis to sport mode so that the ride is firmer. I've test driven an f1. I don't know what mechanics are being applied but the f1 screen shows the chassis and it's configured from normal to sport. Is this your understanding of option 223 for the f10?

Option 223 is available as a standalone for the 523 and 535, and need not be combined with 2VA. 223 costs the same for the 2 models, at $4,960. Actually if choose 2VA ($11,430), then don't need 223 as 2VA includes 223.

Last edited by bm323; 04-13-2010 at 09:45 PM..
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      04-13-2010, 11:59 PM   #57
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It would be the same. The VDC technology used in the F10 was introduced by BMW in the F01. So, if you like what it does in the F01, you probably would also like it in the F10.

The only question is whether you need it. For typical driving situations, VDC would be left in either Normal or Comfort modes, with Sport mode engaged only when you are in the mood for some spirited driving. Again, that depends on whether there are enough roads (and empty ones at that) in SG for you to indulge. To me, the only roads that are equivalent of the UK B-roads and Welsh roads here would be the trunk roads on the East coast of Malaysia, where there are dips and crests and turns galore (not dissimilar to the roads seen on the Autoweek video).

Having said that, AFAIK, VDC with DDC allows you to customise, via the i-Drive, the individual parameters. For example (and you need to confirm with your SE or better still, the product manager at PML), it may be possible to have the steering assistance, throttle response and gearshift map in Sport settings but retain the dampers in Normal mode.

If I were getting the 535, I would probably add VDC. In standard trim, the 535 is already loaded to the gills with HUD, sunroof, etc (some of which I would have tried to delete as being more luxury than performance options). VDC is one of the flagship technologies of BMW. In the context of the purchase price of the 535, the option cost is only incremental. It would also facilitate the addition of 19" (or, if you wish, 20") rims when the M-sport versions are available, without detracting from the ride comfort. Obviously, YMMV.
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      04-14-2010, 11:49 AM   #58
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Thanks nfnc meaning from your understanding, I would only need option 223 to tighten the chassis for a firmer ride as in F01, and do not need option 2VA (if I can have option 223 standalone for the 535i)?
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      04-14-2010, 12:16 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
Thanks nfnc meaning from your understanding, I would only need option 223 to tighten the chassis for a firmer ride as in F01, and do not need option 2VA (if I can have option 223 standalone for the 535i)?
Dynamic Damping cannot be applied to a 535i without also adding Dynamic Drive.
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      04-14-2010, 06:44 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carl_d View Post
Dynamic Damping cannot be applied to a 535i without also adding Dynamic Drive.
What do you mean by dynamic drive as this term is a very confusing (has different meanings) term? I don't know whether in Singapore, option 223 includes anything else other than VDC but BMW here has the option 223 for 535i. It is possible they have made a mistake, listing 223 as an option for the 535i.

Option 223 in Singapore is listed as "dynamic damper control (including driving dynamic control)" but it is not clear as to what this is meant other than VDC. If driving dynamic control refers to the sport/normal toggle button, the base 535i here should have it already as it has the 8 speed sport auto transmission and sport steering wheel.
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      04-14-2010, 07:00 PM   #61
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bm323, AFAIK, carl_d is right and this is also spelt out in the EU/UK catalogue. Adaptive damping/variable damping cannot be had unless you also order adaptive drive (which is adaptive damping + adaptive/active anti-roll).

However, if PML has made arrangements with BMW AG for adaptive damping/variable damping (Option 223) to be available as a standalone option in SG, then this is all you would need for the firmer ride a la the F01. Why don't you ask your SE to try to key in the option. If the ordering system allows it, then its available as a standalone. Otherwise, tough luck. Adaptive/active anti-roll is needed only if you want to really reduce roll when cornering.

Btw, the system is capable of nearly eliminating roll but the engineers felt that a little roll was required to provide feedback to the driver that the car is approaching the limits. Otherwise, there would be no roll even if the car is sliding of the road.
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      04-14-2010, 10:31 PM   #62
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I've checked again with my SE. He confirms 223 is a standalone option available for the 535i.

He thinks it should be the following option listed at the back of the f10 catalogue : Dynamic Driving Control (in conjunction with -speed sports automatic transmission, Integral Active Steering, Adaptive Drive or Dynamic Damping Control). He confirms that 223 alone will allow one to configure the chassis and/or the transmission.

If so, this option should also be available in the US and Europe but BMW may have combined the 223 with active anti-roll as one option in these countries.
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      04-15-2010, 12:39 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
but it is not clear as to what this is meant other than VDC. If driving dynamic control refers to the sport/normal toggle button, the base 535i here should have it already as it has the 8 speed sport auto transmission and sport steering wheel.
It adds Comfort mode to Driving Dynamic Control + the ability to stiffen the chassis. And in some countries you can buy the car with manual transmission, and then this option will be the one that adds the toggle button.
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      04-15-2010, 02:01 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
I've checked again with my SE. He confirms 223 is a standalone option available for the 535i.

He thinks it should be the following option listed at the back of the f10 catalogue : Dynamic Driving Control (in conjunction with -speed sports automatic transmission, Integral Active Steering, Adaptive Drive or Dynamic Damping Control). He confirms that 223 alone will allow one to configure the chassis and/or the transmission.

If so, this option should also be available in the US and Europe but BMW may have combined the 223 with active anti-roll as one option in these countries.
Just tick the box then At least you would be able to adjust the comfort level on the fly.
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      04-15-2010, 05:03 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
What do you mean by dynamic drive as this term is a very confusing (has different meanings) term? I don't know whether in Singapore, option 223 includes anything else other than VDC but BMW here has the option 223 for 535i. It is possible they have made a mistake, listing 223 as an option for the 535i.

Option 223 in Singapore is listed as "dynamic damper control (including driving dynamic control)" but it is not clear as to what this is meant other than VDC. If driving dynamic control refers to the sport/normal toggle button, the base 535i here should have it already as it has the 8 speed sport auto transmission and sport steering wheel.
Sorry, yes its all very confusing, especially when BMW UK do not provide option numbers

In the UK you cannot order a 535i with just VDC it must also have clever anti-roll bars.
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      04-15-2010, 05:35 AM   #66
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They do, since Rich535d has managed to sneak the UK price list out

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=341797

The option codes are listed from page 4 onwards.
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