[reallyreallyslow]

Two key fobs.

Key fob 1 is used for daily drive. Mild driving, fast but not abusing it. The car drives good. Car had some laggy throttle response issue when new. 2000miles later, the car seems to have "broken itself in" on the software part.

Key fob 2 is seldom used, perhaps under 300miles. Used by a gentle driver. When I accidentally took this key fob with me, the car felt slower with slow throttle response. It is like how it was with key fob 1 when the car was new. The sort of half a second delay you get when you press the accelerator...it is kinda like step on pedal, nothing, step on pedal more, still nothing, then half a second later, the power just kicks in with a violent burst. Feels like eco-pro at a whole new level of slowness.

Does key fob really store your driving habits and adapt the car to you?

[BigKutta]

Interesting. I have never used my second key fob, so i will test it out next week. I'll let you know how it goes.

[half man half amazin]

Have had the same experience when I used the other key fob to show my girl how to drive and operate it.

[gtron]

this is interesting to me. what about the iDrive profiles? i wonder if that makes any changes. I think i'll create a new one today and see if it's any different.

[AP]

this is very curious, I'm going to have to give this a go. I've not used my second FOB either so be interesting if there is a difference.
Is this the adaptive gearbox? Is this an urban myth , does it really learn your charactistics?

[gtron]

i read this in the chicago forum when mithiral67 bought a porche some time ago: "i just reset the ECU and picked up 2 more psi across the board, definitely noticable." completely different but i started thinking about what my car learned about me during the break in period because i was super gentle. then i started thinking that i should attempt something to let it know how aggressive i can be. lol

needless to say, my interest is peaked regarding all of these things.

[Boss330]

The owners manual has information regarding what is stored on your key fob.

Radio station last listened to, seat position etc. are stored. I have also experienced that my wifes key fob gives a slightly different engine repsonse, gear changes etc.

[delvek]

I experience the same thing using key fob 2 which is my wifes. She rarely drive the car and when she does she is very cautious. If I happen to drive with her key the car seems much more subdued.

[HighlandPete]

I'd love to know what the fob is supposed to be holding in memory, which could affect performance.

Are you guys suggesting there are two sets of parameters stored in the car's electronics covering throttle response and gearbox which are just 'switched' on the use of a different fob?

The gearbox 'user adaption' is not even supposed to store in memory, even within the car. User adaption starts afresh on each start up, plus you can break that adaption pattern anytime while driving, so what could be held in a fob?

Interested to know what could be going on, as I've not read anything that implies there could be a connection to the driving performance.

HighlandPete

[delvek]

I have to admit, despite my own curiosity regarding this topic I have never pushed for answers. The difference in driving behavior between the fobs is noticeable and I always assumed it was due to the car "learning" driving habits and modifying its systems to provide the best experience given the driving habit.

[AP]

could there be an element of placebao efect going on here possibly?
Perhaps a letter to BMW will asnwer the question.

[psyxologos]

I think there is a difference in the way the car drives when I use different key fobs.

[mroll320]

the gearbox learns your driving style and adapts, diffrent fob is a new user and either starts fresh or from that fobs previous settings... my merc did it aso.

[smashhell]

Interesting, never knew that.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by mroll320

the gearbox learns your driving style and adapts, diffrent fob is a new user and either starts fresh or from that fobs previous settings... my merc did it aso.

Are you saying this as fact, or just opinion on what you think is happening?

This "learning" has been said for previous generations of BMW (like the E60/1 for example), it is a very loose term, as the car is not learning anything, it is simply adapting to driver and vehicle inputs. The actual adaptive function is well documented for the E60/1 gearbox. Nothing gets logged in memory and the adaption restarts on each start up and adapts on the fly. Change your style on the run and the adaption is there with you, within a few seconds. You can break the adaption any time, simply by putting the gear stick in DS, as it then selects one of 2 sport programmes, according to how you are driving.

That's why I'd like to understand if the F10/11 is different, BMW aren't giving much away, the description is more marketing speak. Without technical data/clarification how does the fob log the last few metres of driving style? Is the car holding driver adaption values for the gearbox, for the next start up, something the previous generation of 5-series didn't?

I'd be expecting BMW to be singing this feature as a massive move forward in driver recognition, or whatever. They are keen to 'gush' about the predictive adaption in development, but not saying much about the current Adaptive Transmission Management (ATM).

HighlandPete

[mroll320]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Are you saying this as fact, or just opinion on what you think is happening?

This "learning" has been said for previous generations of BMW (like the E60/1 for example), it is a very loose term, as the car is not learning anything, it is simply adapting to driver and vehicle inputs. The actual adaptive function is well documented for the E60/1 gearbox. Nothing gets logged in memory and the adaption restarts on each start up and adapts on the fly. Change your style on the run and the adaption is there with you, within a few seconds. You can break the adaption any time, simply by putting the gear stick in DS, as it then selects one of 2 sport programmes, according to how you are driving.

That's why I'd like to understand if the F10/11 is different, BMW aren't giving much away, the description is more marketing speak. Without technical data/clarification how does the fob log the last few metres of driving style? Is the car holding driver adaption values for the gearbox, for the next start up, something the previous generation of 5-series didn't?

I'd be expecting BMW to be singing this feature as a massive move forward in driver recognition, or whatever. They are keen to 'gush' about the predictive adaption in development, but not saying much about the current Adaptive Transmission Management (ATM).

HighlandPete

My mates brother works for BMW as a tech. He confirms this, infact the throttle map is altered to suit the gearbox setting at the time too.
It is beyond doubt, when I go on long trip on our 70mph motorways driving for economy the car goes slushy and really does n`t want to change down till it has too.... a shot drive "booting it".. a bit puts it back a more sporting setting

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by mroll320

My mates brother works for BMW as a tech. He confirms this, infact the throttle map is altered to suit the gearbox setting at the time too.
It is beyond doubt, when I go on long trip on our 70mph motorways driving for economy the car goes slushy and really does n`t want to change down till it has too.... a shot drive "booting it".. a bit puts it back a more sporting setting

I follow what you are saying and it adapts to your style, that is not in dispute. My E91 does that and I'm pretty sensitive to it doing so, using different pre-programmed maps on the fly, but is that learning your style for another day? My car is still predictable to my different styles and conditions. Like getting into the mountains and the sensors feeding back to the gearbox. And like you say, you can change your style and it soon gets onto a different mapping. I can drive my car home enthusiastically or very relaxed, but the next day it is always the same as I leave my home, however I drive it the day before.

So what does your mate's brother say is different in the F10, over and above the E60, for example? I'm trying to grasp what BMW have improved in the F10 regarding driver adaption, I can't find any data which spells it out.

HighlandPete

[babyboss]

strange phenomenon .. like J.T in the same name movie !!

[LiveLarger]

Originally Posted by mroll320

My mates brother works for BMW as a tech. He confirms this, infact the throttle map is altered to suit the gearbox setting at the time too.
It is beyond doubt, when I go on long trip on our 70mph motorways driving for economy the car goes slushy and really does n`t want to change down till it has too.... a shot drive "booting it".. a bit puts it back a more sporting setting

Agree, I notice this too.

[Gilgorm]

IMO, there are a number of different transmission settings or 'maps' built in. Depending on your style and heaviness of your foot, the car will select the one most suited to that style; until you change it in some radical way, then it will adapt to a different 'map' setting. Our retired 02 MB had seven maps the car could choose from. Not sure how many F10s have.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Gilgorm

IMO, there are a number of different transmission settings or 'maps' built in. Depending on your style and heaviness of your foot, the car will select the one most suited to that style; until you change it in some radical way, then it will adapt to a different 'map' setting. Our retired 02 MB had seven maps the car could choose from. Not sure how many F10s have.

BMW software for the ZF 6-speed auto (E60, E90) is 4-programmes. 2 comfort maps (XE and E) plus 2 sport maps (XS and S). Plus adaption features such as 'kick-fast', (throttle evaluation) cornering detection (indirect adaptation to the driver type) and brake evaluation, (similar to kick-fast). All adapting to current driver style. And "within seconds" adapting if you change the driving style and/or conditions. The driver-type adaptation is restarted each time the vehicle pulls away from a standstill.

The driver adaption doesn't learn driver "A", or driver "B", in the previous applications of the auto gearbox. We've read for years about gearbox behaviour that "perhaps the previous driver's style was different" or "maybe it needs to learn my style of driving". If we change our style, in real time, the gearbox software will adapt to our new style within seconds, that is the whole point of driver adaption, it becomes far more natural and user friendly as we drive.

The whole adaption concept when implemented was based on three main values, Driver-Type Recognition, Environmental Recognition, Driving-Situation Recognition.

Where and how the F10 with the 8-speed auto has advanced over the previous generation software, is where the technical data is lacking.

Plus how and why the key fob appears to be involved?

HighlandPete

[LiveLarger]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

BMW software for the ZF 6-speed auto (E60, E90) is 4-programmes. 2 comfort maps (XE and E) plus 2 sport maps (XS and S). Plus adaption features such as 'kick-fast', (throttle evaluation) cornering detection (indirect adaptation to the driver type) and brake evaluation, (similar to kick-fast). All adapting to current driver style. And "within seconds" adapting if you change the driving style and/or conditions. The driver-type adaptation is restarted each time the vehicle pulls away from a standstill.

The driver adaption doesn't learn driver "A", or driver "B", in the previous applications of the auto gearbox. We've read for years about gearbox behaviour that "perhaps the previous driver's style was different" or "maybe it needs to learn my style of driving". If we change our style, in real time, the gearbox software will adapt to our new style within seconds, that is the whole point of driver adaption, it becomes far more natural and user friendly as we drive.

The whole adaption concept when implemented was based on three main values, Driver-Type Recognition, Environmental Recognition, Driving-Situation Recognition.

Where and how the F10 with the 8-speed auto has advanced over the previous generation software, is where the technical data is lacking.

Plus how and why the key fob appears to be involved?

HighlandPete

Interesting. Thank you for clarifying this.