[indus]

Hi guys

I took delivery of my 535d today and I don't know if its my imagination but it feels a little 'coarser' than the 530d I had for an extended demo. The 530d didn't have much mileage on it either but obviously more than my new car.

Is it in my mind or could it be because the engine is still 'tight'?

Thanks

[gatoman39]

probably the former. It's like a new born. Every time it sneezes you think it has malaria.

[ipso_facto]

First - congrats !!

To answer your question, in my experience - with my current car being my 4th diesel - I have noticed two things;

(1) The engine becomes smoother with the mileage you do. I have never driven one past 40,000 miles, so I can't comment beyond this mileage. The "smoothness" curve flattens out somewhere between 5,000 and 10,000 miles in my experience. I hope that makes sense.

(2) Diesel engines always take time to warm up. Especially noticeable during Winter months. About 10 to 15 minutes of driving during Winter time and the engine gets more responsive. If I have a chance to, I let mine tick over for 5 minutes before driving - especially on a very cold day - with the doors locked of course - one of the advantages of the keyless ignition - so you can lock the car and go back in the house and finish your morning tea/coffee.

Just my opinion (based on owning 4 diesels). Others' experience may differ.

Cheers.

[indus]

Gatoman, that's hilarious and very true, I have two small kids so know what you mean

Ipso, thanks mate. I didn't realise I could leave the engine running and take the keys with me! What would be the position with insurance if somebody broke the window and drove off with it?

[bmwarchitect]

Originally Posted by indus

Gatoman, that's hilarious and very true, I have two small kids so know what you mean

Ipso, thanks mate. I didn't realise I could leave the engine running and take the keys with me! What would be the position with insurance if somebody broke the window and drove off with it?

I believe you need to have the key in the car to be able to drive off. The OP can confirm.

For those that have very short commutes, less than 2 miles, and live in winter climates, is a diesel a poor choice?

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by indus

Gatoman, that's hilarious and very true, I have two small kids so know what you mean

Ipso, thanks mate. I didn't realise I could leave the engine running and take the keys with me! What would be the position with insurance if somebody broke the window and drove off with it?

DON"T warm the engine in the kerb DRIVE IT, it will warm up quicker and it's recommended.
Your 35D engine will get a bit quieter after the first 1200 miles or so.
Your car may have the quick warm up flaps behind the front grill my X635D had them and the engine was warm in under 4 miles, just look for them through the front grill. They close and open automatically.

[bimmerfrei]

It's interesting that you compare the 530d and the 535d. I used to drive a 335d (286 hp version, though) and my best pal drove a 330d (245 hp). I could swear that his car's engine ran slightly smoother than mine. Still, that's just two cars in a universe of BMW diesels.

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by bmwarchitect

I believe you need to have the key in the car to be able to drive off. The OP can confirm.

Definitely not, as I discovered on a 330d test drive.
The salesman took the car for a fill up before handing it over to me and it was only when I returned after a 4 hour drive that we both realised the key was still in the salesman's pocket. Good job I didn't stop for a coffee when I was about 80 miles away from the garage!

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

DON"T warm the engine in the kerb DRIVE IT, it will warm up quicker and it's recommended.

Quite right, prolonged idling should be avoided.

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by bmwarchitect

For those that have very short commutes, less than 2 miles, and live in winter climates, is a diesel a poor choice?

Consistent short runs like that will be harmful for any engine regardless of fuel type.

[Terza]

Originally Posted by bimmerfrei

It's interesting that you compare the 530d and the 535d. I used to drive a 335d (286 hp version, though) and my best pal drove a 330d (245 hp). I could swear that his car's engine ran slightly smoother than mine. Still, that's just two cars in a universe of BMW diesels.

The 330d with 245 hp has the newer engine which actually is smoother than the engine in the 335d. The 335d's 286 hp engine is based on the older 231 hp 330d.

However, the 306 hp engine is based on the 245 hp engine and they should be equally smooth.

Someone else noted that he leaves his car idling for 5 minutes, but there is no point whatsoever in doing that, and it could potentially even be harmful to the engine if done on a daily basis for prolonged periods.

[HighlandPete]

Warm up at idle is definitely of no advantage to a diesel, it needs work to warm up fastest, plus as said, the cold idle running is no good for it.

As for the smoothness, I've had experience of diesels for many years, even the same engine spec' can be so varied for smoothness, in different examples.

Typically they do get better, but not always. I've driven new cars and had them again at a higher mileage and they can be the same, or totally different. I remember one new Passat I had out of the showroom, from my local VW dealer and the engine was so refined and pulled like a train from new. So different from the other example of the same spec' the dealer had in his hire fleet. I remember telling the dealer the car was the best I'd driven... he later told me other regular drivers also reported it was the best they'd driven, and it was the same after 40k miles.

I've driven both a 535d and 530d, of the M57 designs, and the 535d was very coarse by comparison to the 530d. The engine combustion knock intruded into the cabin in the 535d, even at speed, whereas the 530d engine was muted at speed.

I've listened to diesel engines at idle, and same designs can be so varied even at similar mileage. Engine build tolerances and combustion variations must have a part to play, besides mileage.

HighlandPete

[ipso_facto]

Thanks to all for comments re. idle running being bad. I have only ever done it occasionally on a cold morning - probably 5 or 6 times in my current car - so I'll heed the advice and make that never again. Cheers.

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I've driven both a 535d and 530d, of the M57 designs, and the 535d was very coarse by comparison to the 530d. The engine combustion knock intruded into the cabin in the 535d, even at speed, whereas the 530d engine was muted at speed.

Interesting what you say about combustion knock - when pressing on, without engaging kick-down, my 535d emits a lovely low end rumble, very reminiscent of the older Jaguar AJ6 engines. It's only when I begin to floor the accelerator that I notice a bit of a clatter, which I incorrectly interpreted as injector noise - if that were the case it would be present at all engine speeds and, on reflection, probably more audible at lower revs.
This is only my second diesel and I find it significantly more refined than the 330d unit in my '08 E92, but they're both extremely impressive engines.
Who would have thought, 10 years ago, that a diesel engine would get you to 60mph in less than 6 seconds and return over 40mpg!!!

[kave]

If there was so much material in the engine that should wear off to make it run smoother It seems like a really bad idea to run it like 30000kms before changing the first oil. Imagine all the metallic particles in the oil.

I am afraid that todays engines are made with such perfect tolerances so they don't need any special run-uin, nor do they take less fuel after a while or run smoother.
Probably the drivers get more accustom to the car and it's vibrations etc.

I test drove a 520D yesterday in -5 degrees. I thought the whole engine should go to pieces. The 530D was like a petrol engine compared to that.

I will certainly get the diesel warmer if I buy a F11, it's the best 1700€ spent on the car.
Allways get a warm coupe and engine no matter the temperature outside.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by bmwarchitect

For those that have very short commutes, less than 2 miles, and live in winter climates, is a diesel a poor choice?

YES a very poor choice, go petrol.

[gatoman39]

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

YES a very poor choice, go petrol.

Is this due to a reduction in efficiency and mileage or due to maintenance and wear and tear? If your driving is mostly city, is it not worth getting a diesel?

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by gatoman39

Is this due to a reduction in efficiency and mileage or due to maintenance and wear and tear? If your driving is mostly city, is it not worth getting a diesel?

Over such short distances you might be marginally better off with petrol, but you'll still be causing engine damage regardless of fuel type.
The engine should regularly reach and sustain its optimum operating temperature in order to fully burn off the combustion process condensate, which will otherwise combine with the lube oil and create corrosive acids.
Additionally, if you're only doing short runs, you should increase the oil and filter replacement frequency.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by gatoman39

Is this due to a reduction in efficiency and mileage or due to maintenance and wear and tear? If your driving is mostly city, is it not worth getting a diesel?

Yes Reduction in efficiency as diesels need miles, petrols not so much.
All short journeys kill engines.

[GGPlena]

I would appreciate some more elaboration around idle running, short journeys etc. For instance I travel very often 2x15km every day and often in hard traffic with a lot of stand still sometimes I can do the entire journey in 2nd gear...

Could someone with real insight comment/advice etc. around this!?

//Regards

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by GGPlena

I would appreciate some more elaboration around idle running, short journeys etc. For instance I travel very often 2x15km every day and often in hard traffic with a lot of stand still sometimes I can do the entire journey in 2nd gear...

Could someone with real insight comment/advice etc. around this!?

//Regards

Not the best of trips, but see you have a petrol, so probably the best engine for faster warm ups. But not sure there is much you can do, conditions dictate your use.

HighlandPete

[gatoman39]

In terms of long term reliability, are there certain mechanical parts of the drivetrain that need more attention if a diesel is driven in this manner? I'm under the impression that fuel system components, mainly filters and water separators need more attention than petrol versions.