[dk79]

i am using the jb plus mod with default setting at pump 91 oct gas (non ethanol added) on my 2013 650xi.

i used to have a 335i with n54 engine and i could mix e85 and 91 to get e30 and then run race map on cobb tune.

so if i mix e85 with 91 octane to obtain e30 can i turn the dial up from default and see improvement?

is there a way to datalog the car for timing issues while running e85 mix?

can BT cable from burger tuning be used for datalogging?

[Bmw doubles]

I've used e85 without a tune, with a jb+, JB4 and on several flash tunes. You should be able to run about 6gallons on a good tune. I would start with 3 gallons and see how your car likes it. I've experimented with going over 6 gallons and my car didn't like so I drove cautiously and put more 91 on top of it to lower the rating. Just remember your car mpg is about to drop.

[dk79]

got reply from bms they said e85 use is not supported for n63tu platform.
logging via bt cable can be done but is very limited and recommended to contact bav tech directly to find out.

[lsturbointeg]

Any long term effects on the motor using E85 all the time?

[FenixMike]

Originally Posted by dk79

i am using the jb plus mod with default setting at pump 91 oct gas (non ethanol added) on my 2013 650xi.

i used to have a 335i with n54 engine and i could mix e85 and 91 to get e30 and then run race map on cobb tune.

so if i mix e85 with 91 octane to obtain e30 can i turn the dial up from default and see improvement?

is there a way to datalog the car for timing issues while running e85 mix?

can BT cable from burger tuning be used for datalogging?

I used to tinker with E85 on my 550, but lately I just don't do anything remotely close to going fast so ive stopped, but when I did use it, it worked great. I did a max of 35% mix (depending on your states regular fuel mix, here in Arizona, our 91 octane is E10-E15 depending on the time of the year already, but some states have the non ethanol blended gasoline, so find out before mixing) and was able to bump boost 1.5 lbs without issue. While I have the cable to datalog, ive also been tuning and building fast cars for quite some time so before I trust anything a computer says, I also listen for audible knock/pinging (too much boost and/or timing, and not enough octane). With our heat here (110-120 degrees is average for most of summer), I would get a bit of knock if I had anyone else in the vehicle with me on just 91, and tossing 4 gallons of E85 in cured any and all knock issues, and allowed me to bump the boost a bit. Unfortunately with the 15-20 horsepower at most added (realistically 10-15 and only over some of the power curve as boost can only be added where possible and the computer does have to learn new knock routines with fuel, it isn't an instant change and the more you drive and replicate conditions, the more the computer can add timing as needed as well as correct your now lean fuel curves) really wasn't a huge difference for the kind of driving I do and occasional spirited on ramp run so I haven't added any lately, but when summer months roll around, I will likely toss a few gallons in just to keep the engine safe.

As stated above though, your car is NOT a flex fuel car, so it will only be able to adjust for air fuel ratio based on fuel trims and O2 sensor readings, so don't expect to just toss a few gallons in and be able to feel the difference immediately, but the more you drive it, the better it will feel, especially if you can keep a consistent mix for a few tanks. As others have said, E85 has about 65% the energy of gasoline, so it will burn quite a bit more fuel to achieve the same energy (expect a 10-15% reduction in fuel economy for a 30% mix), but the pay off is the cooling ability of E85 which keeps combustion temps and air charge temps down as well as reduces the possibility of detonation.

Of course the best way for a non flex fuel car is still either using Torco additive, or actual race fuel. With race fuel not being available everywhere, as well as expensive for either enough 100 octane to make a good 96 mix, or running straight 100, you can get Torco relatively cheap in bulk (or individual cans if you want to leave them in the trunk and only use when needed) and that will allow your vehicle to operate on the same fueling as it would on normal pump gas, but allow for the ability safelty handle more boost and timing.

[FenixMike]

Originally Posted by lsturbointeg

Any long term effects on the motor using E85 all the time?

Not since the 90s... just about every car is "alcohol safe" now, more so since almost every pump fuel has ethanol mixed in it. There were horror stories about people using it on older vehicles as the cleaning ability of E85 (it is alcohol after all) would causes chunks of garbage to come off the valves and combustion area, but ive really yet to see it happen beyond urban myths or people "who know a guy". On top of that, with being direct injection, there really isn't a chance for the fuel to go near anything besides the combustion chamber where as with other vehicles, it comes into the intake manifold through standard injectors and cleans the cylinder heads and intake manifold on its way in.

I ran it for 2 years issue free in my Mustang (a non E85 car I tuned to run it), but im also quite good with automotive and tuning, so I know what to look for before it happens. Many people jumped on the train with little to no experience and had issues, then when other uneducated people jumped in with their theories, it just became a rumor mill of uneducated guesses and fingers being pointed. There are downsides to running it as a replacement for race gas (poor mans race fuel), but also many upsides when used correctly.

[Bmw doubles]

FenixMike excellent breakdown of e85 adapting over time and safe blending to reduce knock in high heat situations.

[lsturbointeg]

Originally Posted by Bmw doubles

FenixMike excellent breakdown of e85 adapting over time and safe blending to reduce knock in high heat situations.

+1

Great info on the E85

[MissionPerformance]

Originally Posted by dk79

got reply from bms they said e85 use is not supported for n63tu platform.
logging via bt cable can be done but is very limited and recommended to contact bav tech directly to find out.

Time to switch to a re-flash tune I think. We usually run 6 gallons of E85 on our test car, '15 550i and results are phenomenal amount of thrust...And im saying thrust since the car feel like a jet during a take-off. Puts you in the seat and only lets go once you release the throttle

[ARC550]

I have used E85 on all my ECU tunes/flashes and the power is improved and smoother. Deff feel it.

I would Deff stay under the 35-40% mark for E85.

Just pour and be happy! The car takes it without issues.

Trust me I know, I'm the World record holder for the N63TU baby!

[Bmw doubles]

Originally Posted by ARC550

I have used E85 on all my ECU tunes/flashes and the power is improved and smoother. Deff feel it.

I would Deff stay under the 35-40% mark for E85.

Just pour and be happy! The car takes it without issues.

Trust me I know, I'm the World record holder for the N63TU baby!

Truth

[MissionPerformance]

Originally Posted by ARC550

I have used E85 on all my ECU tunes/flashes and the power is improved and smoother. Deff feel it.

I would Deff stay under the 35-40% mark for E85.

Just pour and be happy! The car takes it without issues.

Trust me I know, I'm the World record holder for the N63TU baby!

I personally like to tune my cars for e40 (around 6 gallons on f10). The reason behind it is that this mix, 40% ethanol, is the highest ethanol percentage we like to tune and still be backwards compatible with 100% pump gas. A tune designed for over 40% ethanol mix seems to not be too happy when 100% pump gas gets randomly dumped in. With e40 mix, the mix produces around 95octane result and this is more then sufficient for a daily driven vehicle. Add this to a richer wot mixture and you get a very good result.

And records are there to be broken for sure. Soon enough a new world's fastest n63tu will be built. At this point we are at 500whp/550wtrq at which point stock 2.5bar MAPs started to be the limiting factor. Now with 3.5 bar and our new torque managment, numbers should be a bit higher

[dk79]

Originally Posted by FenixMike

I used to tinker with E85 on my 550, but lately I just don't do anything remotely close to going fast so ive stopped, but when I did use it, it worked great. I did a max of 35% mix (depending on your states regular fuel mix, here in Arizona, our 91 octane is E10-E15 depending on the time of the year already, but some states have the non ethanol blended gasoline, so find out before mixing) and was able to bump boost 1.5 lbs without issue. While I have the cable to datalog, ive also been tuning and building fast cars for quite some time so before I trust anything a computer says, I also listen for audible knock/pinging (too much boost and/or timing, and not enough octane). With our heat here (110-120 degrees is average for most of summer), I would get a bit of knock if I had anyone else in the vehicle with me on just 91, and tossing 4 gallons of E85 in cured any and all knock issues, and allowed me to bump the boost a bit. Unfortunately with the 15-20 horsepower at most added (realistically 10-15 and only over some of the power curve as boost can only be added where possible and the computer does have to learn new knock routines with fuel, it isn't an instant change and the more you drive and replicate conditions, the more the computer can add timing as needed as well as correct your now lean fuel curves) really wasn't a huge difference for the kind of driving I do and occasional spirited on ramp run so I haven't added any lately, but when summer months roll around, I will likely toss a few gallons in just to keep the engine safe.

As stated above though, your car is NOT a flex fuel car, so it will only be able to adjust for air fuel ratio based on fuel trims and O2 sensor readings, so don't expect to just toss a few gallons in and be able to feel the difference immediately, but the more you drive it, the better it will feel, especially if you can keep a consistent mix for a few tanks. As others have said, E85 has about 65% the energy of gasoline, so it will burn quite a bit more fuel to achieve the same energy (expect a 10-15% reduction in fuel economy for a 30% mix), but the pay off is the cooling ability of E85 which keeps combustion temps and air charge temps down as well as reduces the possibility of detonation.

Of course the best way for a non flex fuel car is still either using Torco additive, or actual race fuel. With race fuel not being available everywhere, as well as expensive for either enough 100 octane to make a good 96 mix, or running straight 100, you can get Torco relatively cheap in bulk (or individual cans if you want to leave them in the trunk and only use when needed) and that will allow your vehicle to operate on the same fueling as it would on normal pump gas, but allow for the ability safelty handle more boost and timing.

how were you able to datalog your car and detect knock?
i will try adding 3-4 gallons of e85 to 91 non ethanol gas it will give 14-18% ethanol blend and raise octane rating to 93-94.

[dk79]

Originally Posted by MissionPerformance

Time to switch to a re-flash tune I think. We usually run 6 gallons of E85 on our test car, '15 550i and results are phenomenal amount of thrust...And im saying thrust since the car feel like a jet during a take-off. Puts you in the seat and only lets go once you release the throttle

i am waiting for a cobb like handheld ecu flash tune w/o tempering with ecu directly. hope thats possible in near future.
i think dinan has the ability to do that but thats too expensive and restrictive in terms of gains.

[dk79]

Originally Posted by ARC550

I have used E85 on all my ECU tunes/flashes and the power is improved and smoother. Deff feel it.

I would Deff stay under the 35-40% mark for E85.

Just pour and be happy! The car takes it without issues.

Trust me I know, I'm the World record holder for the N63TU baby!

lets say if i am using 15-20% ethanol blend with octane rating b/w 94-96, can i turn the dial up to 12 or maybe 1pm on jb plus?

[dk79]

Originally Posted by MissionPerformance

I personally like to tune my cars for e40 (around 6 gallons on f10). The reason behind it is that this mix, 40% ethanol, is the highest ethanol percentage we like to tune and still be backwards compatible with 100% pump gas. A tune designed for over 40% ethanol mix seems to not be too happy when 100% pump gas gets randomly dumped in. With e40 mix, the mix produces around 95octane result and this is more then sufficient for a daily driven vehicle. Add this to a richer wot mixture and you get a very good result.

And records are there to be broken for sure. Soon enough a new world's fastest n63tu will be built. At this point we are at 500whp/550wtrq at which point stock 2.5bar MAPs started to be the limiting factor. Now with 3.5 bar and our new torque managment, numbers should be a bit higher

will these sensors be user replaceable and how much will they cost? can these sensors be used for stage1 tune also?

[MissionPerformance]

The sensors are user replaceable on all engines, tho the job is pretty difficult on n63 and s63. For those two engines, we recommend a professional installation.

Yes, these sensors can be adjusted to work with stage 1 tune on all engines, tho it's not necessary as they only get maxed out with DP and high torque numbers.

[ARC550]

Originally Posted by dk79

lets say if i am using 15-20% ethanol blend with octane rating b/w 94-96, can i turn the dial up to 12 or maybe 1pm on jb plus?

I drive with it at 3pm setting all day. Race gas or not. As soon as you put the gas it adjusts.

[Vapiano]

Subscribed.

[dk79]

Originally Posted by ARC550

I drive with it at 3pm setting all day. Race gas or not. As soon as you put the gas it adjusts.

some people say car throws a DTC code if driven hard on higher setting, whats that and how to fix that? also how to data log the car?

[Bmw doubles]

Originally Posted by dk79

some people say car throws a DTC code if driven hard on higher setting, whats that and how to fix that? also how to data log the car?

Clearing codes can be done with an app called iCarly BMW app. You'll need a wifi OBD connector caked the elm327 which you can get from Amazon for like 15 bucks.

There are several apps for data logging. Dash commander, engine link and eobd-facile. Those apps also use the elm327. EngineLink has a nice e85 monitoring graph.

[FenixMike]

Originally Posted by dk79

how were you able to datalog your car and detect knock?
i will try adding 3-4 gallons of e85 to 91 non ethanol gas it will give 14-18% ethanol blend and raise octane rating to 93-94.

I have the Bavarian Technic scanner, but I detect knock by audible knock...