[Pottsy]

No response from Twitter.
No reply from my email to contact.us@bmw.co.uk
No reply from my enquiry on the web form.

If they are like this when I am trying to buy a car, what will they be like if it breaks? Not very clever really.

[SpeedTrip]

Try emailing:-

ManagingDirectorOffice@bmw.co.uk

this will get thru to one of Tim Abbotts Team - who have been most diligent with my issues in the past.

[IanHg]

Derby have a 535d with AD less than 12 months old and under 10k miles as do Nottingham and Warwick. I'd test drive one of these unless you want an extended drive (you can see them on the used car search).

[Pottsy]

Thank you!

Back to Derby:

http://usedcars.bmw.co.uk/5-Series/3...cmdc=se_na_re_

Where "no one ever orders AD" - and there's one there!

[AP]

Slightly off topic, but just looking at that 535d in Derby, have you looked at the BMW finance?

Looks very expensive, if my maths is correct, the finance is going to cost you around £14500. I can see why the dealers are keen for you go with finance on their cars. APR is high, not sure why its so high though - just because its used?

[Pottsy]

It's mental, and would make a new car much cheaper.

BMW pricing seems completely up the spout. Massive discounts on new cars doesn't help clarity either.

And, while ranting, why is the wheel upgrade to 19" £1230, when the difference in prices from the wheel sets (on the BMW accessories page) is just £580? If you choose the M Sport+ at £2000, the wheels come it at £570, so a saving of just £10. Good job I don't want 19" wheels and a stick on spoiler.

Proposed solution is 535d + AD + 18" + non-RFT. And a set of 17" or 18" winters.

[IanHg]

Originally Posted by Pottsy

Thank you!

Back to Derby:

http://usedcars.bmw.co.uk/5-Series/3...cmdc=se_na_re_

Where "no one ever orders AD" - and there's one there!

I was told that all the AD cars with the "YC" reg are BMW HQ Management cars. For what ever reason they seem to always order AD. Rarer to find it on a normal punter's car but I've ordered it after a drive in the Warwick car.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Pottsy

HighlandPete,

When compared to a regular Msport car, how much improved is the secondary ride on an adaptive drive car on a typical motorway?

Missed this post and question...

I never actually tried the M-sport suspension, after driving several F10/11 models on standard suspension knew the M-sport suspension would not work (for me) in my typical driving. Not so much an issue for decent roads and motorways, but once on poor quality surfaces. I find even with VDC, some roads are best left off using sport mode, it is having the choice which sold AD to me. My F11 runs really well on motorways, in mid setting is a very comfortable and controlled ride. The softest setting is very much a refined cruiser. Almost magic carpet ride, strangely rides even better when loaded in the softest mode. That may partly be a touring thing, as self levelling air suspension naturally increases the rear spring rate with load.

I found that AD shrinks the car, it is the ARS part which is the real star, flattens the body and no negatives like beefed up fixed roll bars can have. It is having active roll control and variable damping which makes it a better chassis, IMO. I would have liked to have tried IAS as well, but no chance seeing how difficult it was to even get a car with the AD option.

BTW, sorry to hear you are having problems getting some seat time in a car with AD. Appears most of the cars with it fitted are the ones coming from BMW themselves. The F10 I tried was sent up to my dealer from BMW stock. Keep working on them.

HighlandPete

[IanHg]

Originally Posted by Pottsy

Proposed solution is 535d + AD + 18" + non-RFT. And a set of 17" or 18" winters.

The 19" look nicer. I was lucky to see 2 cars in the same colour side by side & the 18" looked a bit duff (probably rides better though). I think it's the slab sides that make the car seem more in proportion with the bigger wheels.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by IanHg

I was told that all the AD cars with the "YC" reg are BMW HQ Management cars. For what ever reason they seem to always order AD. Rarer to find it on a normal punter's car but I've ordered it after a drive in the Warwick car.

I bought a BMW HQ management car, (YC) hence why my car is so well specced, was driven 6k miles by one of the BMW UK directors.

HighlandPete

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by IanHg

The 19" look nicer. I was lucky to see 2 cars in the same colour side by side & the 18" looked a bit duff (probably rides better though). I think it's the slab sides that make the car seem more in proportion with the bigger wheels.

I agree the 19" look better, but I wanted 18" (form over fashion) to get the best from AD. My reading, BMW engineers optimised AD on 18" wheels.

I run 17" winter wheels, again BMW OE spec' for the car, so get the same sort of ride in colder temperatures on 17" RFTs as I do in summer temperatures on 18" wheels. My concern was a poor ride in winter, as RFTs are much stiffer in colder temperatures. Plus more rubber is less susceptible to road damage in winter conditions. For me it has been a "win, win" situation, even if the wheels do look a bit small.

HighlandPete

[Pottsy]

HighlandPete, thank you for that. And it is exactly as I expect/hope the AD car will be. To me the 5 seems quite high (or at least the CofG is well above the roll centres) and BMW have responded with stiff anti roll bars (yuk) and fairly firm springing and damping. There also appears to be a poor secondary ride, but I am 99% certain this is the fault of having solid rubber tyres (OK, RFTs). The obvious fix is to reduce the ARB rate, or remove it when needed by "magic". And to put some normal tyres on.

On the wheel size issue, I lie in the HP camp. Big wheels to me visually spell high unsprung mass and non compliant sidewalls. I deliberately chose 18" on the Jag (and 17" winters) and will do the same on the 5. I see how bigger wheels look "better" (more pimped), but in my opinion if I were buying a car for it's looks, the F10 would be bottom of the list anyway. It's a solid 7 pinter. Maybe an 8 after they have reverted to halogen indicators.

Still on my quest to drive the AD car. The Derby dealer has not been great. I can't drive the car on Wednesday (next available day for me) because the salesman is "not in on Wednesday", "the car might be sold anyway and then you are not allowed to drive it", and "maybe I should go away and think about it". And he still hasn't cracked it (he told me that AD was just VDC on the test drive and nobody specced it) - he shouted over to the second hand sales lot "have you got a car with adaptive cruise?"

The hurdles are still immense - I'll try another dealer on Tues/Wed.

[IanHg]

The salesmen can be a bit variable. One of them I dealt with thought Adaptive drive was rear wheel steering and had to call one of his colleagues over to check.

If you want a go in a used car I'd suggest you don't tell them it's just to try the AD. Do it like your interested in buying the car.

18" will undoubtedly ride better than the 19". I'm doing it because it looks better. and as you say it needs all the help it can get in the looks dept.

[CraigUK]

Seeing as some of you have mentioned 'Y' plate Ex BMW Management cars you may be interested in this post that I've just posted on E90Post. Just something to be wary of>>

http://www.e90post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=132

[Pottsy]

Meanwhile....

Here is what I sent to CS:

Hi,

I would very much like to test drive a 535d saloon with adaptive drive (and ideally LED headlights). I am due to replace my XF and need to ensure the ride quality is OK on the BMW before I buy.

Such a car appears to be unavailable to test. I have driven a 530d with m sport suspension, and this is far from what I want.

Is such a car available? I am prepared to travel to drive one. I live near Leicester but work near Luton.

Many thanks

And here is BMW's considered reply:

I am sorry that we are unable to provide a demonstrator BMW 530d vehicle with active steering and adaptive drive for you to test drive. I can certainly appreciate your disappointment

As previously advised, I would recommend that you register your interest with your local BMW Approved Dealership, in order that they may assist you in the future, should a vehicle with the specification you require become available.

Not sure what the "previously advised" bit is about, but the overall message is loud and clear.

[AP]

you'd have thought they would have one on their fleet and if not add one to their demo fleet. Otherwise they might lose a sale on this one.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Pottsy

Not sure what the "previously advised" bit is about, but the overall message is loud and clear.

There is definitely an issue with getting demo cars with all the options we would like to try.

I test drove several demo models to test the options I was looking to have in a car. SAT and Cameras in one, wheels on another, AD in another and a basic 520d touring with the correct wheel size, to get a feel for the touring rear suspension.

My actual car I didn't even test drive it, (I was buying remote). Sales Manager tested it and reported back how it drove and sent pictures. Having sifted the options, was confident it was the best I could get, signed the paperwork and drove off the dealer's forecourt with over 300 miles ahead.

HighlandPete

[IanHg]

I think you'll be lucky to find any car with active steering, adaptive drive and LEDs.

One of the dealers I spoke to said they did have one buyer that ticked every option on the list - including active steering.

I think some of these options are just too expensive for the type of car it is (and no retained resale value) & you end up in a price range / depreciation cost where you're better looking at a different car where these toys are more common.

[valbmw]

XF is a good car and until you are happy with it, there is no objective reason to change. There is nobody to help you to like or dislike something but yourself, however the method of applying impression of local dealership's behavior to BMW car seems to be outward a bit, sorry for that word.

It is totally understood, test driving is a perfect way to learn a car. Nevertheless we cannot expect a dealer will buy and keep the 535d with specific options in his test pool just to to sell (or not to sell) another 535d with maybe very different options. I never heard about any dealer keeping full park of test cars in the inventory. HighlandPete said perfectly about the numerous test drives he had to do, and this is reality, do we want it or not, and this is not just about BMW dealers.

When you have already chosen a car in your mind, you will probably approach your dealer once a year for warranty service, mostly avoiding those guys.

My own 530dX 258 hp is just fine, but this is not my first BMW car. Yours XF is very good, and according to Jeremy Calrkson it is one of the two world's best cars)

[GMTRB5]

I'm obviously much more trusting than many others .. I bought my 535d having never driven one before, but felt I'd read enough reviews & forum opinions to know it would be a good car .. also specced the LED headlights without seeing them in the flesh before, but did watch the youtube video on how they work and that combined with how they look sold me !

[Pottsy]

Progress!

Drove a used 535d with adaptive drive and the regulation 19" wheels today.

I have to say it was miles better than the 530d. The engine is much more like the Jag, in fact it was better than the Jag... The 530d lacked useful grunt at low rpm, and so it liked to change down when asked for just moderate acceleration. The 535d is exactly the same as the Jag at low revs (the joy of a second tiddly little turbocharger) and it would hold on to the gear and just go in the same was as the Jag does. Where the 535d is better is at high rpm where it just continues to pull hard when the Jag starts to ease off. Little bit noisier than the Jag, but nothing to worry about - both engines sound fine.

The ride on the 530d was poor in both primary and secondary. The 535d in comfort mode though was much better than the 530d - good primary and OK secondary. Primary is softer than the Jag, secondary is close, but not quite as good. This has to be the combination of two secondary ride-disasters, the fashion statement 19" tyres and the solid rubber RFTs. The roll-busting AD is brilliant, as is the softening effect it has on the motorway. Sport mode works well on an A road too - I like the fact that you can get two cars in one. The Jag primary ride is like Sport mode in the BMW, and the Jag secondary ride is better than comfort+ in the 535d. You could argue the Jag is better, but you could also argue for the BMW. The advantage in the BMW is the switchable modes - but I reckon anyone could live with either. I do have a feeling that with 18" non RFTs the BMW might just clinch it.

The 535d steering is OK. This is a shame, because the XF steering is simply brilliant. The only point where the BMW scores is under extreme cornering, where the chassis control seems to help, and the Jag starts to roll (which affects directional control more than the lack of precision in the steering).

I really quite like it. I think that I may go for it, but I have some calculations to do. The XF 3.0 PL is £32k (discounted). It includes nav, electric memory seats, dimming and folding mirrors, comfort access and decent Meridian sound system. The 535d same spec (with AD), discounted is £43k. The used car I drove was only £6k cheaper than new (1 year old, 10,000 miles) and was registered to Alphabet leasing (who know what it has been up to). It was also the wrong colour exterior, and missed a couple of "would really like to haves". The final hurdle I have is one that only I can deal with - my wife thinks the BMW is a class below the Jag, and positively ugly in comparison.

Thanks for your help - I'll post pics if I order!

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Pottsy

Progress!

Drove a used 535d with adaptive drive and the regulation 19" wheels today.

....

The ride on the 530d was poor in both primary and secondary. The 535d in comfort mode though was much better than the 530d - good primary and OK secondary. Primary is softer than the Jag, secondary is close, but not quite as good. This has to be the combination of two secondary ride-disasters, the fashion statement 19" tyres and the solid rubber RFTs. The roll-busting AD is brilliant, as is the softening effect it has on the motorway. Sport mode works well on an A road too - I like the fact that you can get two cars in one. The Jag primary ride is like Sport mode in the BMW, and the Jag secondary ride is better than comfort+ in the 535d. You could argue the Jag is better, but you could also argue for the BMW. The advantage in the BMW is the switchable modes - but I reckon anyone could live with either. I do have a feeling that with 18" non RFTs the BMW might just clinch it.

The 535d steering is OK. This is a shame, because the XF steering is simply brilliant. The only point where the BMW scores is under extreme cornering, where the chassis control seems to help, and the Jag starts to roll (which affects directional control more than the lack of precision in the steering).

So pleased you have had a chance to try AD, at least you now know the score and the possibilities on different rubber.

I've not personally compared the 5-series directly against the Jaguar. When I did try an XF it was while running my modified suspension and non run-flats on the 330d and found the XF a very similar driving feel.

In fact this was part of my first forum comment after the test drive.

The drive in the XF diesel, on 17" wheels was good, just felt the steering was too light for my taste. Very accurate, but light. Did get the car off the A9 and onto some country lanes, very competent and poised but steering was still too light, would like a bit more weighting like a 5-series BMW. Strange thing the ride was very similar to my 3-series on normal tyres and the Koni FSD dampers. A bit uncanny really, as I thought it would be somehow 'smoother', certainly different. Can't see any RFT car matching the way it gets rid of the small bumps and road imperfections. Suspension certainly absorbs the road, not amplify the road faults as do RFTs.

Going from my 330d (which I had set up to my driving taste) to the current car, put the ride and handling into a different league, made possible with AD and because there is the choice of modes.

HighlandPete