[superbuick]

Originally Posted by YodaSyrup

Never expect to see a manual in a BMW? That's some serious crazy talk. Am I on a Lexus forum?

Amen again.

Can the SAT vary the shift firmness and speed between each and every shift, or even mid-shift? Can it skip 2 or 3 gears at a time? Can you up the boost momentarily by disconnecting the engine/transmission and building revs? Can you shift rapidly between reverse and forward without losing momentum? (not that this is done often, or in a 5 series especially )

The manual transmission is loved by those who love it because it can be shifted however we want, whenever we want. The weight of the car and the style or size have NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. We don't care.

I'd love to know how many of the manual haters/automatic professors can drive a stick with any type of advanced technique, or even drive a stick at all...

[Rbembas_M3]

Originally Posted by superbuick

Amen again.

Can the SAT vary the shift firmness and speed between each and every shift, or even mid-shift? Can it skip 2 or 3 gears at a time? Can you up the boost momentarily my disconnecting the engine/transmission and building revs? Can you shift rapidly between reverse and forward without losing momentum? (not that this is done often, or in a 5 series especially )

The manual transmission is loved by those who love it because it can be shifted however we want, whenever we want. The weight of the car and the style or size have NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. We don't care.

I'd love to know how many of the manual haters/automatic professors can drive a stick with any type of advanced technique, or even drive a stick at all...

Amen brother well put

[james550imanual]

Originally Posted by superbuick

Amen again.

Can the SAT vary the shift firmness and speed between each and every shift, or even mid-shift? Can it skip 2 or 3 gears at a time? Can you up the boost momentarily by disconnecting the engine/transmission and building revs? Can you shift rapidly between reverse and forward without losing momentum? (not that this is done often, or in a 5 series especially )

The manual transmission is loved by those who love it because it can be shifted however we want, whenever we want. The weight of the car and the style or size have NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. We don't care.

I'd love to know how many of the manual haters/automatic professors can drive a stick with any type of advanced technique, or even drive a stick at all...

Driving my old 2001 330i on a nice stretch of road with its manual transmission still gives me a smile every time, even after all these years. I would like to recreate this feeling on a bigger but more refined sedan.

[Keyser Soze]

Originally Posted by superbuick

Amen again.

Can the SAT vary the shift firmness and speed between each and every shift, or even mid-shift? Can it skip 2 or 3 gears at a time? Can you up the boost momentarily by disconnecting the engine/transmission and building revs? Can you shift rapidly between reverse and forward without losing momentum? (not that this is done often, or in a 5 series especially )

The manual transmission is loved by those who love it because it can be shifted however we want, whenever we want. The weight of the car and the style or size have NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. We don't care.

I'd love to know how many of the manual haters/automatic professors can drive a stick with any type of advanced technique, or even drive a stick at all...

I've been driving MT cars since around 1983, including several BMW's and also know about track time, heel toe shifting, rev matching and everything else.............INCLUDING ON THE 2013 535 MT 6 SPEED IN MY GARAGE.

I wouldn't get one again on a car this large, heavy and since you can't hear the engine with the stock exhaust it's hard to tell what the engine is doing anyway, it's harder to rev match...and with so much other sh*t to manage with your free hand.....meh. Get over yourself.

Oh, and the reason you have to shift from 1st to 3rd is because you can only take 1st up to about 5 miles per hour before you have to find 2nd if you want to shift smoothly, at which point you might as well go for 3rd. Derp.

[Alan l.]

Originally Posted by bubbahead

I'm wondering for those who have the manual transmission in the f10would even consider ordering one in the 7-series if it was available..... its only 6 inches longer...anyone?

I wouldn't in the F10 and certainly never in a 7 series. Some of you guys here are def. more extreme when it comes to rowing your own gear because for me there is a point where a manual makes absolutely no sense depending on the type of car it is and its purpose. Has nothing to do with not loving or knowing how to drive a manual at all. My last two BMW's 3 series were both manual and enjoyed them immensely.

If I really wanted the enjoyment of driving stick and all the pleasures that comes with it I would get a 335, M3, Cayman, STi, FRS, Z4 etc... not a luxury car like the F10 is first.

Alan

[superbuick]

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

I've been driving MT cars since around 1983, including several BMW's and also know about track time, heel toe shifting, rev matching and everything else.............INCLUDING ON THE 2013 535 MT 6 SPEED IN MY GARAGE.

I wouldn't get one again on a car this large, heavy and since you can't hear the engine with the stock exhaust it's hard to tell what the engine is doing anyway, it's harder to rev match...and with so much other sh*t to manage with your free hand.....meh. Get over yourself.

Oh, and the reason you have to shift from 1st to 3rd is because you can only take 1st up to about 5 miles per hour before you have to find 2nd if you want to shift smoothly, at which point you might as well go for 3rd. Derp.

Who said anything about shifting from first to third? I certainly didn't - and I don't. I can, however, if I want to, and I and others like that. I also dont have any issues shifting smoothly from any gear into any other gears.

As far as me getting over myself, and "derp" ( cool Internet slang!) owning the same car with a stick and disliking it does not make you an expert at driving stick. If you want to swing d!cks and personal insults over an Internet discussion on transmissions in a sedan, show us some credibility. Maybe some SCCA wins? NASA? LeMons? Take and post a picture of your racing trophies, with your username in the picture. I'll post mine and we'll see who the big d!ck is at advanced driving techniques, no "derp" necessary.

I don't have other 'sh*t' to manage with my free hand. I'm driving, that's what my hands are being used for. Am I in the minority of people using it for that, and preferring a manual, yes. The numbers don't lie. But that doesn't take away from the fact that me, and others, bought this car specifically for the manual, and if it didn't have it we wouldn't be driving one. I'd say that's pretty cool and passionate, a great endorsement of the car, and worth sharing with the original poster who asked about the stick.

[DLerner]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

If I really wanted the enjoyment of driving stick and all the pleasures that comes with it I would get a 335, M3, Cayman, STi, FRS, Z4 etc... not a luxury car like the F10 is first.

Ah, but to me - that's the beauty of the F10. I get technology, luxury, practical size for a family of 4, good looks AND all of the enjoyment and pleasures of driving a manual - a combination that's near impossible to find elsewhere.

[Alan l.]

^^ no doubt its great that Bmw made this an option on the F10 for people like you but i'm simply stating that for me and many people here didn't elect for the manual not because we don't enjoy it or know how to drive one but rather the F10 just isn't the ideal candidate for this transmission. I'm sure its more fun than the SAT equipped car since you do have more direct control of things but in a car like this there is enjoyment with having your right hand free as well. I was a big anti automatics for the longest time but the SAT in this car really changed my opinion about it. Its a great transmission that is silky smooth and very sporty when you need it to be.

When i'm driving a manual transmission car i want to feel and hear the engine. The point is to feel connected to the car and the road. The F10 isolates the driver from the car so much and is so quiet to me it would just feel like i'm moving a stick inside the car without much involvement or feedback in return.

My ideal manual car would be something like this...
Bmw E92 M3 6MT
Akropavic Exhaust
ESS Supercharged
BBS LM's
KW V3 Coilovers

Alan

[numbersguy]

Not hearing the motor is a big deal. I've driven a manual for many years but I'd need to have a head up tach display to drive the F10 the way I drove my E46. If this car had been designed for a manual they wouldn't have deleted the motor sound. The other thing is I couldn't drive a manual the way this motor was designed to be driven at less than 2K most of the time.

I'm sorry to see three pedal cars disappear. It was fun to use your brain as the software that runs the car's hardware. The turning point was when sports cars went to automanual and then to DCT and started posting consistently lower numbers than manuals. That took away performance as a reason to stick with the manual and the other reason, pure fun, just won't be enough to save it except in a few specialty cars. Things change.

[Keyser Soze]

Originally Posted by superbuick

Who said anything about shifting from first to third? I certainly didn't - and I don't. I can, however, if I want to, and I and others like that. I also dont have any issues shifting smoothly from any gear into any other gears.

As far as me getting over myself, and "derp" ( cool Internet slang!) owning the same car with a stick and disliking it does not make you an expert at driving stick. .........blah blah blah.

You smugly insinuated that everyone who dislikes the MT in this giant, heavy, cruiser car somehow has no comprehension of driving an MT and in fact, may not even know how to. That was an arrogantly posited statement that is simply incorrect. I ordered the MT for all the usual reasons after years of driving them, and in hindsight, feel it was a mistake (for this car).

Using the F10 MT, you may feel like Fernando Alonso going back and forth to your office, but most will not.

Originally Posted by Alan l.

When i'm driving a manual transmission car i want to feel and hear the engine. The point is to feel connected to the car and the road. The F10 isolates the driver from the car so much and is so quiet to me it would just feel like i'm moving a stick inside the car without much involvement or feedback in return.

Alan

THIS

[bubbahead]

I never second-guessed myself when I ordered my 335i coupe when I ordered it with manual tranny. Its the control of the rev's and hearing the engine that made it exciting...
I did the same thing when I ordered the f10...in SAT. I wouldn't hear shit with a manual tranny. As another poster said, having to shift from 1st - 2nd driving your first 5 yards is a nuisance... IMO, it just doesnt suit a cruiser car..and I have a 550. If i want to play 'manual', I'll just use the SAT options

[kave]

If you stretch the arguments all the way on going automatic on the 535i, you might as well get a 535d right away.

[1HOT BMR]

Originally Posted by superbuick

The manual transmission is loved by those who love it because it can be shifted however we want, whenever we want. The weight of the car and the style or size have NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. We don't care.

I agree. I would also add that having a manual is about the fun of interacting with your machine - requiring your close attention, thinking and all the necessary skills to drive it smoothly. Manuals are fun and that is why I get all my vehicles with manuals. Heck, some motorcycles now come with automatic transmissions and a lot of people are buying them - go figure that. Flying was also fun when you had to push pedals and throttles to change your speed and heading - now you can just turn the knob if you want to - Is that like having paddles? . . ha!

I wonder if this one comes with a manual

[Marksman63]

So what? Why all extreme sport cars (Ferrari, Lambos, McLaren, etc) have SAT?

[DLerner]

Originally Posted by Marksman63

So what? Why all extreme sport cars (Ferrari, Lambos, McLaren, etc) have SAT?

Because they are built with one primary objective - to be faster than their competitors. It's a game of one-upmanship with super exotics.

If that's your ultimate goal - to shave 3/10ths of a second off your 0-60 runs, then yes - the computer shifts faster than a human and an auto is the way to go.

However, if you are looking for engagement and more control over your driving experience, a manual can give you that.

Is the F10 quiet? Yep. Is it still fun to shift it myself. Yep.

Most people I talk to with SAT's don't use the paddles very often, if at all. So it's one pedal for go and the other for stop? That's always been a pretty lame experience for me.

[superbuick]

Do the M-sport and 550 have different gear ratios? In first gear, I'm at 800rpms at 5mph, 1500 at 10, and around 3250 at 20mph. Thats pretty much in line with almost every other stick shift I own (4) give or take a hundred rpms. The "i need to shift into second at 5mph" line doesn't make sense. Or maybe did they put a lower gear in the newer ones? Mine's an '11.

[bubbahead]

Originally Posted by superbuick

Do the M-sport and 550 have different gear ratios? In first gear, I'm at 800rpms at 5mph, 1500 at 10, and around 3250 at 20mph. Thats pretty much in line with almost every other stick shift I own (4) give or take a hundred rpms. The "i need to shift into second at 5mph" line doesn't make sense. Or maybe did they put a lower gear in the newer ones? Mine's an '11.

msport is basically cosmetic (13's suspension also)...nothing to do with engine or tranny

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by YodaSyrup

However, if you are looking for engagement and more control over your driving experience, a small sporty car with manual and a nice engine note can give you that.

Fixed.

[DLerner]

Originally Posted by The X Men

Fixed.

Got it. You think manuals are a thing of the past, only good in small, sporty cars when there's no traffic and the car has no luxury appointments.

I don't agree, but that's okay. I don't work for BMW and I don't make a commission on every manual sold.

[Marksman63]

Originally Posted by YodaSyrup

Because they are built with one primary objective - to be faster than their competitors. It's a game of one-upmanship with super exotics.

If that's your ultimate goal - to shave 3/10ths of a second off your 0-60 runs, then yes - the computer shifts faster than a human and an auto is the way to go.

However, if you are looking for engagement and more control over your driving experience, a manual can give you that.

Is the F10 quiet? Yep. Is it still fun to shift it myself. Yep.

Most people I talk to with SAT's don't use the paddles very often, if at all. So it's one pedal for go and the other for stop? That's always been a pretty lame experience for me.

This is my 4th BMW and my first AT car. IMHO: paddles, right foot for running and left foot for breaking is much more fun than MT. And much more efficient.

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by YodaSyrup

Got it. You think manuals are a thing of the past, only good in small, sporty cars when there's no traffic and the car has no luxury appointments.

its not just me, just about every car companies feels that way as well. That is why the mid size luxury sedan with stick shift are almost extinct and that is why BMW is phasing out the manual transmission option in the F10.

[Boulder Bill]

I smell the return of the troll . . .