[747flyboy]

Hello Mike. Always good to hear from you. Logic sometimes overshadowed by personal ego. Your incites are valid and create opportunities for ideas. I agree on M5 numbers should not be too much of a goal however we get carried away within our own world. The fact we are able to take a sound and a well manufactured vehicle beyond attainable performance keeping safety and worthiness in place should be enough regardless of numbers or competition. .

Thanks for being level on this board.

Joe

[Simple5]

I'm curious about the dyno. Looks like you will you get over that 500whp n63 hump for sure. If that's the case the Pure turbos will be pretty good with the tuning that we have from the piggys (you are running the jb4 stage 2 I see)...

[747flyboy]

Precisely. N63 motor has been a mystery up until now. In summary, good hardware (DP'S, Exhaust and maybe higher volume Intercoolers) matched with slightly bigger Turbos and JB Stage II, this engine is capable of +500 WHP.

[Simple5]

I'm really looking forward to your dyno. If you get a good bump, over 500whp, the upcoming pure turbos and stage2 maybe the next thing on my mod list.

[550Reasons]

from my understanding, Alpina turbos are technically the same just internals are different and able to handle more power. So thats good that they fit perfectly fine.

Your ECU isnt freaking out ??
you should get gauge and find out how your f/a ratios are and how much boost your pushing.

You might need to get some intakes from badblack so you can let those puppies breath better.

Keep us well updated !! I am interested as to how far you can take this !

[FenixMike]

Originally Posted by 550Reasons

from my understanding, Alpina turbos are technically the same just internals are different and able to handle more power. So thats good that they fit perfectly fine.

Your ECU isnt freaking out ??
you should get gauge and find out how your f/a ratios are and how much boost your pushing.

You might need to get some intakes from badblack so you can let those puppies breath better.

Keep us well updated !! I am interested as to how far you can take this !

Its much like anyone elses "aftermarket" turbos for our cars, they send the housings out to be opened up, larger wheels are installed, and then reassembled. Its really the best option for our cars since its a proprietary housing (not an "off the shelf" turbo you can just bolt on anything) and having someone like Garrett or Precision make a true aftermarket turbo for our cars would be a fortune due to lack of demand, R&D costs etc. With the "larger" Alpina or *insert brand here* turbos, you don't really lose anything on the low end as most internal components are the same, it just has a better cold side wheel to flow more air and allow a better high end boost curve with significantly better efficiency. Believe it or not, adding a larger turbo doesnt just mean more boost, nor does it really effect the vehicle negatively in this case because nothing changes as far as the car is concerned other than possibly a bit of spool time on the very low end, and a bit more of a boost spike when the wastegate finally opens until the computer learns to control it better (also depending what device you are using to control boost). The wastegates will still open at the desired boost level, but the upside to a larger wheel is the more efficient air now seen as the turbo isn't trying nearly as hard to achieve the desired boost. Most of the time increasing efficiency of the turbo will pick up significant horsepower even at identical boost levels, so if 747 even didn't touch his piggy back, it likely gained at least 20 horsepower down low from cooler intake air temps and better air charge, and probably quite a bit over 5,000 rpm where the stock turbos start to choke a bit, and now flow much better. Unfortunately to really take advantage of aftermarket turbos you really need a true custom tune (I may have something up my sleeve for us N63 guys since until now, the only option is drop an Alpina or Dinan file into our computers IF access can be somehow gained, but more on that as I get more info from my guy). 747 has taken quite the advantage of proper octane which has allowed him to run significantly more boost on stock timing than any of us can with 91/93 octane, which now with a larger turbo should make even more power.

Since I don't have the interest in running race gas, I'm going to wait until I find out about the ECU tuning. If that works out for me, ESS has turbos for our cars as well and I may just do something silly

[550Reasons]

Originally Posted by FenixMike

Its much like anyone elses "aftermarket" turbos for our cars, they send the housings out to be opened up, larger wheels are installed, and then reassembled. Its really the best option for our cars since its a proprietary housing (not an "off the shelf" turbo you can just bolt on anything) and having someone like Garrett or Precision make a true aftermarket turbo for our cars would be a fortune due to lack of demand, R&D costs etc. With the "larger" Alpina or *insert brand here* turbos, you don't really lose anything on the low end as most internal components are the same, it just has a better cold side wheel to flow more air and allow a better high end boost curve with significantly better efficiency. Believe it or not, adding a larger turbo doesnt just mean more boost, nor does it really effect the vehicle negatively in this case because nothing changes as far as the car is concerned other than possibly a bit of spool time on the very low end, and a bit more of a boost spike when the wastegate finally opens until the computer learns to control it better (also depending what device you are using to control boost). The wastegates will still open at the desired boost level, but the upside to a larger wheel is the more efficient air now seen as the turbo isn't trying nearly as hard to achieve the desired boost. Most of the time increasing efficiency of the turbo will pick up significant horsepower even at identical boost levels, so if 747 even didn't touch his piggy back, it likely gained at least 20 horsepower down low from cooler intake air temps and better air charge, and probably quite a bit over 5,000 rpm where the stock turbos start to choke a bit, and now flow much better. Unfortunately to really take advantage of aftermarket turbos you really need a true custom tune (I may have something up my sleeve for us N63 guys since until now, the only option is drop an Alpina or Dinan file into our computers IF access can be somehow gained, but more on that as I get more info from my guy). 747 has taken quite the advantage of proper octane which has allowed him to run significantly more boost on stock timing than any of us can with 91/93 octane, which now with a larger turbo should make even more power.

Since I don't have the interest in running race gas, I'm going to wait until I find out about the ECU tuning. If that works out for me, ESS has turbos for our cars as well and I may just do something silly

but with the JB4 he might be able to turn the boost way higher than we are normally allowed, probably able to milk it a bit more before injectors or something else gives out.

He should consult with Terry and see what he can advise.

[FenixMike]

Originally Posted by 550Reasons

but with the JB4 he might be able to turn the boost way higher than we are normally allowed, probably able to milk it a bit more before injectors or something else gives out.

He should consult with Terry and see what he can advise.

I doubt he will find the limit of injectors and pump on gasoline, and he can keep turning up boost until he reaches the ECU max (if any or at whatever point it throws a code, but since there isn't a manual boost controller, the computer still has control in the end), octane max (where detonation occurs, and eventually it will since he has no control over timing), or mechanical limits of components. At some point vehicle components will get angry and start throwing codes because they have no idea whats going on and don't understand the power being thrown at them, but he did say there was some sort of computer flash done to his car, so depending who's program was dropped in, it may have fixed some of those issues. Air fuel ratio should adjust as the sensors demand more to maintain target AFR, but I'm not a huge fan of tossing lots of boost at a car with hopes it can compensate based on factory parameters designed around significantly lower boost and emissions.

[Teddylongtooth]

Originally Posted by 747flyboy

Alpina Turbos were perfectly mounted/matched without a hick up, new seals and all.

One comment "WOW".

I cant wait to Dyno. I think we are close to OEM Stock M5 numbers.

DSC light up around 80MPH

What fuel did you use when you first drove with the new turbos? How soon before you dyno again? I looked up those alpina turbos, looks like thier 2k a piece you did get a deal of the century

[747flyboy]

93 Octane is standard premium in Georgia. Pit Sop in my area has unleaded 100 Octane pump gas therefore I am at 50/50 mix running 8 PSI fail safe as of now. Planning on going back 100% 100 octane plus Torco with 12 PSI fail safe. I am out of the country on business, cant wait to dyno either. Call Garrett-Honeywell directly. you may get them for around $1200 a piece.

[550Reasons]

Originally Posted by 747flyboy

93 Octane is standard premium in Georgia. Pit Sop in my area has unleaded 100 Octane pump gas therefore I am at 50/50 mix running 8 PSI fail safe as of now. Planning on going back 100% 100 octane plus Torco with 12 PSI fail safe. I am out of the country on business, cant wait to dyno either. Call Garrett-Honeywell directly. you may get them for around $1200 a piece.

yikes ... careful lol

[747flyboy]

Greetings Mike,

Keep me posted what you have in mind for a tune. Technica Motor sports in Atlanta is back paddling on re-flashing ECU since BMW customer care package erased their file. I am starting to believe I may have been taken for a $2200 fictitious non existent tune.
I am happy with current arrangement however would like to take advantage of the setup as described by you.

Cheers,


Joe

[FenixMike]

Originally Posted by 747flyboy

Greetings Mike,

Keep me posted what you have in mind for a tune. Technica Motor sports in Atlanta is back paddling on re-flashing ECU since BMW customer care package erased their file. I am starting to believe I may have been taken for a $2200 fictitious non existent tune.
I am happy with current arrangement however would like to take advantage of the setup as described by you.

Cheers,


Joe

PM sent

[UA_civ_eng]

Mike, I'm also curious to know what you might have in store for us N63 guys (you saw my thread a couple of months ago asking the world for flash tune knowledge), so please keep me in the loop.

[FenixMike]

Originally Posted by UA_civ_eng

Mike, I'm also curious to know what you might have in store for us N63 guys (you saw my thread a couple of months ago asking the world for flash tune knowledge), so please keep me in the loop.

I suppose I will just dump it all on the forum Seeing as how no one has "cracked" the N63 computer yet (shops have installed Dinan and Alpina files as they are "trusted" BMW files and can be installed with BMW tools, but no custom files have been developed yet), I was pushing AJ at ESS to figure something out as the N63TU guys are having fantastic results and most of the same parts work on the N63, so I refuse to accept were just SOL unless we want to drop 30K with Dinan. He said if I wanted, he could send my computer to his main shop in Europe and have his engineers take a crack at it as they are the best in the industry and have every tool at their disposal there, so I did. I bought a spare ECU though and sent that one as I didnt want my car down while they were working on it. This was as of a week ago so it will be a bit of time before they have any results as more popular cars such as the M3/M4 are dominating right now and id be willing to bet other than a handful on here, the 2011-2013 550i flash sales would be minimal in comparison. When I get updates I will pass them along, but he said if it can be done, they will be the ones to figure it out.

[UA_civ_eng]

Originally Posted by FenixMike

I suppose I will just dump it all on the forum Seeing as how no one has "cracked" the N63 computer yet (shops have installed Dinan and Alpina files as they are "trusted" BMW files and can be installed with BMW tools, but no custom files have been developed yet), I was pushing AJ at ESS to figure something out as the N63TU guys are having fantastic results and most of the same parts work on the N63, so I refuse to accept were just SOL unless we want to drop 30K with Dinan. He said if I wanted, he could send my computer to his main shop in Europe and have his engineers take a crack at it as they are the best in the industry and have every tool at their disposal there, so I did. I bought a spare ECU though and sent that one as I didnt want my car down while they were working on it. This was as of a week ago so it will be a bit of time before they have any results as more popular cars such as the M3/M4 are dominating right now and id be willing to bet other than a handful on here, the 2011-2013 550i flash sales would be minimal in comparison. When I get updates I will pass them along, but he said if it can be done, they will be the ones to figure it out.

This just made my day.

[hoddis]

Hey flyboy with an upgraded M5 fuel pump (assuming its compatible) would it be an option to run E85 instead of the race fuel? It would probably be much less abrasive to the engine and easier to come by. Not to mention easier on the wallet.

[747flyboy]

M5 Fuel pumps are compatible (two required) at a price of $1100 per pump where as the 550i fuel pumps are priced at $140 each. Why would race fuel be more abrasive to the engine?. Definitely something to look into.


Joe

[hoddis]

Originally Posted by 747flyboy

M5 Fuel pumps are compatible (two required) at a price of $1100 per pump where as the 550i fuel pumps are priced at $140 each. Why would race fuel be more abrasive to the engine?. Definitely something to look into.


Joe

That's some good inside info, $2,220 isn't cheap! But with the deals you've been finding (alpina turbos) I'll bet you could get a good deal somewhere.

Regarding the fuel I could be mistaken but I was under the impression that race fuel was leaded and that it damaged the maf and other sensors prematurely. Not true?

[peter91118]

Originally Posted by hoddis

That's some good inside info, $2,220 isn't cheap! But with the deals you've been finding (alpina turbos) I'll bet you could get a good deal somewhere.

Regarding the fuel I could be mistaken but I was under the impression that race fuel was leaded and that it damaged the maf and other sensors prematurely. Not true?

Leaded fuel is just a cat/o2 killer.

[hoddis]

Originally Posted by peter91118

Leaded fuel is just a cat/o2 killer.

Ok thanks for the clarification! This will be my new thing I learned today.

[Simple5]

Any DYNOS yet with your Alpina turbos installed?