[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by Harambe

Yes, you are correct.

Keep in mind this is coming from the guy who didn't know his valve cover gasket and head gasket were different things. And who also didn't know the different between lowering springs w/ shocks versus coilovers.

I understand he is trying to learn and that's great, but he needs to stop spreading false information. I help people all the time on here, all from knowledge gained from personal experience.

sounds like you're trying really hard to prove that you're right and i am wrong. is it an ego thing or do you just have nothing better to do?

perhaps it would be helpful to correct me an move on rather then blubber on about how I'm wrong when I am just trying to learn

"HES WRONG HES WRONG HE KNOWS NOTHING LOOK AT WHAT HE SAID ON A POST 2 MONTHS AGO DONT LISTEN TO HIM"

yea... not very helpful. either correct me or fuck off.

[Antetokounmpo]

Originally Posted by STR8-6IX

sounds like you're trying really hard to prove that you're right and i am wrong. is it an ego thing or do you just have nothing better to do?

perhaps it would be helpful to correct me an move on rather then blubber on about how I'm wrong when I am just trying to learn

"HES WRONG HES WRONG HE KNOWS NOTHING LOOK AT WHAT HE SAID ON A POST 2 MONTHS AGO DONT LISTEN TO HIM"

yea... not very helpful. either correct me or fuck off.

Nope not at all. I am trying to prevent people from believing what you say because you clearly are just guessing. It's like fake news.

Let me tell you this, the best handling upgrade to your car is sticky tires. Stiff suspension usually gives the impression of better handing, however, unless you're on a perfectly smooth surface super stiff suspension will not be faster.

The reason race cars are stiff is for 2 main reasons, one because they have so much downforce they need to be otherwise they will bottom out when going fast and second because the tracks are usually very smooth allowing for stiffer suspension without bouncing all over the place like you do on the road with very stiff suspension.

There is no order in which you need to add suspension components such as sway bars and aftermarket shocks and springs. And until you try things yourself I would refrain from telling people to modify x or change y.

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by Harambe

Nope not at all. I am trying to prevent people from believing what you say because you clearly are just guessing. It's like fake news.

Let me tell you this, the best handling upgrade to your car is sticky tires. Stiff suspension usually gives the impression of better handing, however, unless you're on a perfectly smooth surface super stiff suspension will not be faster.

The reason race cars are stiff is for 2 main reasons, one because they have so much downforce they need to be otherwise they will bottom out when going fast and second because the tracks are usually very smooth allowing for stiffer suspension without bouncing all over the place like you do on the road with very stiff suspension.

There is no order in which you need to add suspension components such as sway bars and aftermarket shocks and springs. And until you try things yourself I would refrain from telling people to modify x or change y.

stiff suspension = zero grip over uneven/rough pavement. suspension must be firm but not overly so. compliance is important. I like the bilstein struts paired with ACS springs because the struts are aggressive, but the springs offer compliance which is what you want for not only a daily driver, but one that can handle capably around corners.

It has been recorded that high performance sway bars are not good for stock suspension. its kind of like a bottleneck - suspensions aggressiveness must be paired to the sway bars accordingly for best results. there are lots of knowledgeable people out here who believe sway bars should be done last for this very reason.

I am also against lowering springs on factory struts. lowering springs are not designed to be used with your average non performance strut meaning that it will be compressed more then then normal and wear out very quickly. the ride/handling would also not be as good when comparing it to a proper strut/spring combo or coilover setup.

I recently upgraded from 17 inch rims to 19 inch PSS tires, and it made a huge difference. the suspension is still a little too soft for my liking, but it rides nicer now and handles more planted/stiff then before. the low profile tire helped a lot.

the thing about suspension is, like you said downforce compresses your suspension at high speed which makes an overly stiff setup even more useless. (for the street anyways) the faster you go in the 5 series, the more nimble it feels, less body roll, less understeer. it handles really well at high speed. the suspension feels perfectly compressed and not soft at all once you get enough downforce.

look man, you think I dont know my shit? try me. but I'll always suck up my ego and admit when I dont know something. you need to relax a little.

[n3985]

there is so much salt up in here I should make pop corn

Originally Posted by STR8-6IX

stiff suspension = zero grip over uneven/rough pavement. suspension must be firm but not overly so. compliance is important. I like the bilstein struts paired with ACS springs because the struts are aggressive, but the springs offer compliance which is what you want for not only a daily driver, but one that can handle capably around corners.

I think the other guy's point is you generalize things too much as if you read it somewhere and it became the golden rule.

Stiff suspension is fine over rough surface if the rebound and compression are adjusted accordingly e.g. coilovers on a race car.

Ideally you need to match the shock valving to the spring rate used for maximum efficacy.

[ezaircon4jc]

Stabilizer (NOT sway; I don't want those!) bars control body roll. Shocks (or struts; whatever the car has and there is a difference!) "control" the springs; that's why their real name is dampers.

[65lim]

go with coilovers!

[Simple5]

My 550i handled badly compared to my old e90 335i but with eibach springs and m5 front/650i rear sways its a lot more tolerable now. Actually makes it a little more fun to drive.

[Bbb34]

Not trying to start another debate, just genuinely interested.

Those of you who are unhappy with handling, was this something that you just didn't catch during test drive, or were you planning to upgrade suspension components/tires all along?

I tried several 5 series configurations (and most competitors) until I found one I was happy with, but ruled out E class quite quickly since I did not like the handling at all (liked everything else about the car).

[Simple5]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

Not trying to start another debate, just genuinely interested.

Those of you who are unhappy with handling, was this something that you just didn't catch during test drive, or were you planning to upgrade suspension components/tires all along?

I tried several 5 series configurations (and most competitors) until I found one I was happy with, but ruled out E class quite quickly since I did not like the handling at all (liked everything else about the car).

Going from a e90 335I to a car that weighs 700+lbs more that there was going to be a trade off in handling but a few suspension mods quickly alleviated that. I truly enjoy my heavy ass 550i!

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by Simple3

Going from a e90 335I to a car that weighs 700+lbs more that there was going to be a trade off in handling but a few suspension mods quickly alleviated that. I truly enjoy my heavy ass 550i!

Of course I get that.

It's just that trying to compare these two makes no sense to me, I know it's difficult not to since it's what you "knew" at the time, but even F30 is very different from E90, so expecting car like F10 to handle the same is not realistic.

I'm not trying to defend F10, I like it, some don't and that's perfectly fine. As I said with right options selected, given it's size and direct competition I think it handles very well. I too wish the steering feel would be closer to E90, but again that's true for F30 today too. Besides A6 which in my opinion comes pretty close, I personally couldn't find any car in this class that I felt handled better.

[Bmw doubles]

HighlandPete is correct about the F10 being loaded and it become even better with upgraded suspension components.

I drove the F10 with EDC and that felt great on a test drive. Not E90 msport great, but very BMW sport feel. After upgrading my suspension parts everything improved dramatically, but it requires changing out tires, shocks, springs and sways. Its a lot, but worth it. There are only 2 things we can do to make this handle better in all scenarios after a suspension upgrade:

1. Weight reduction (3-400lbs) never seen it done.
2. Replace electronic steering rack with the hydraulic version on the F10 xdrive. Never seen that done either

[Douggie]

Originally Posted by mko9

I have a 535i 6MT base model car, I thought the handling on this car in it's stock form was appalling. It crashed over every bump, the body roll was excessive, and any turn had the nose diving to the outside of the corner. I ditched the runflat tires, I replaced the shocks/struts with Koni FSD units, and M5/M650D sway bars front and rear. The car corners a lot flatter now, and handles much better, but it is still miles behind my e46 330i ZHP (which is admittedly much lighter and has a little more tire). The biggest remaining drawback is electric steering is so vague, and there is no way to fix that.

My feelings exactly! I can't believe how bad the handling of a stock BMW was. Changing to coilovers and changing the front sway bars helped, but unfortunately the steering is very dull. You need to give the steering wheel a lot of turn before the car turns, so makes a big fat long car feel even more dull to drive.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by Bmw doubles

@[HighlandPete](
2. Replace electronic steering rack with the hydraulic version on the F10 xdrive.

What does this achieve other than being able to say you have hydraulic version of steering? I don't think you get dramatic improvement in steering feel. I've driven both, and can't say I've noticed massive difference. I remember being a bit surprised by this at the time, and doing some research and coming across this article, which, for what it's worth is confirming my impression.

[Bmw doubles]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

What does this achieve other than being able to say you have hydraulic version of steering? I don't think you get dramatic improvement in steering feel. I've driven both, and can't say I've noticed massive difference. I remember being a bit surprised by this at the time, and doing some research and coming across this article, which, for what it's worth is confirming my impression.

Hydraulic is the best steering feedback you can get bar none. In fact BMW was one of the best sports sedans because of that. You know exactly what your wheels are doing at all speeds. The latest electric steering tries to mimic hydraulic feel, but has yet to accomplish it.

I went from msport 335 hydraulic steering to non msport 535 with electric and hated it, but now just live it. Hydraulic gives a heavier feel because its natural resistance. Electric steering is like novocaine for your car.

If you've never owned a BMW with hydraulic steering then you're missing out.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by Bmw doubles

Hydraulic is the best steering feedback you can get bar none. You know exactly what your wheels are doing at all speeds. The latest electric steering tries to mimic hydraulic feel, but has yet to accomplish it.

I went from msport 335 hydraulic steering to non msport 535 with electric and hated it, but now just live it. Hydraulic gives a heavier feel because its natural resistance. Electric steering is like novocaine for your car.

If you've never owned a BMW with hydraulic steering then you're missing out.

Oh, I hate the electric one, but same as you learned to live with it.

Ideally I'd like to have the feel of E90 or some of the older Porsche vehicles I tried. What I was saying is that Hydraulic one that's in F10 isn't anything like E90 at all, not nearly the same feel and feedback, in fact, you have to try really hard to be able to tell the difference between the two in F10.

[Bmw doubles]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

Oh, I hate the electric one, but same as you learned to live with it.

Ideally I'd like to have the feel of E90 or some of the older Porsche vehicles I tried. What I was saying is that Hydraulic one that's in F10 isn't anything like E90 at all, not nearly the same feel and feedback, in fact, you have to try really hard to be able to tell the difference.

Maybe if I deflate my non rft to 15psi I'll get a better resistance

[S1ammin]

I can't even tell that my car has electric steering. It feels as stiff as any, and stiffer than some other non-BMW cars I've owned.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by S1ammin

I can't even tell that my car has electric steering. It feels as stiff as any, and stiffer than some other non-BMW cars I've owned.

Depends what you're used to I guess.

Some of the older cars we're talking about in my opinion just provided better feedback to the driver. It's not necessarily just the "weight' feeling as you're turning and parking, it's kind of feeling that you are a lot more connected to the road and know where your front wheels are at any given moment. Any irregularities are immediately sent back to you back through the steering wheel, it's more involved, fun way to corner (for me at least).

I'm not sure if I'm describing this very well, but on your commute home today, when you hit some fun turns, ask yourself if you can tell exact angle your wheels are at at any given moment. Electric for me just feels a "lot more disconnected" than it did in the past, for the lack of better description, it goes where you point it, but does it differently.

[Bmw doubles]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

Depends what you're used to I guess.

Some of the older cars we're talking about in my opinion just provided better feedback to the driver. It's not necessarily just the "weight' feeling as you're turning and parking, it's kind of feeling that you are a lot more connected to the road and know where your front wheels are at any given moment. Any irregularities are immediately sent back to you back through the steering wheel, it's more involved, fun way to corner (for me at least).

I'm not sure if I'm describing this very well, but on your commute home today, when you hit some fun turns, ask yourself if you can tell exact angle your wheels are at at any given moment. Electric for me just feels a "lot more disconnected" than it did in the past, for the lack of better description, it goes where you point it, but does it differently.

+100

[TTG]

To me, the car just "feels" heavy but I don't mind it.

It does really well speeds over 65+MPH and feels very well planted to the road which is what I want from this car.

I recently played around with a new Mustang Boss (don't know any of its details but it looked cool and modded) on a very long open freeway which included several mountain passes with very curves and my stock 535 did an amazing job. Our speed varied 60-90+ andcar held well. When you hit triple digits, it still feels very solid but I don't have the confidence that I had on my Competition M3, which is fair.

So, yes, overall, I am very happy with how this car handles. Can it be better, yes.

But if I were looking for F10 with better handling I would of been on the M5 section

[Takumi587]

I do like the handling of my 535i to a certain extent. I like how much more planted the car feels especially with the H&R sway bars I added. Compared to the rival E-class, Audi A5, Ghibli, the 5 series had the handling I preferred. However, I bought the 5 series mainly for the luxury, space and infotainment system. I did add a bunch of M Performance upgrades to the vehicle just to have best of both worlds.

[Douggie]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

Depends what you're used to I guess.

Some of the older cars we're talking about in my opinion just provided better feedback to the driver. It's not necessarily just the "weight' feeling as you're turning and parking, it's kind of feeling that you are a lot more connected to the road and know where your front wheels are at any given moment. Any irregularities are immediately sent back to you back through the steering wheel, it's more involved, fun way to corner (for me at least).

I'm not sure if I'm describing this very well, but on your commute home today, when you hit some fun turns, ask yourself if you can tell exact angle your wheels are at at any given moment. Electric for me just feels a "lot more disconnected" than it did in the past, for the lack of better description, it goes where you point it, but does it differently.

Yes. It's not just the weight. A heavy steering doesn't equate to sporty, which BMW kind of got it wrong with the sports mode. Yes, the steering does become heavier when you trigger it, but that's about it. Still pretty lifeless.

What is lacking is a counter resistance from the steering wheel, where the steering "fights back". The return to center pull is very low, so when you finish making an abrupt turn, you need to assist the steering to go back to center. Whereas in some cars like the e90, you just gas it and it goes quickly back to center by itself, and you just do a controlled slip of the steering wheel under your hands. In the F10, it's a lot more work to steer the car and so it makes it feel slow and not sporty at all.