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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum Two Million F10 5 Series Sold
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      04-13-2016, 10:58 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by PJinCA
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Originally Posted by Bbb34 View Post
Heavy, no denying it, but then again, size, width and weight make it a great long distance cruiser. Because it's heavy, well insulated and smooth, it sometimes doesn't feel as fast as smaller, shorter wheelbase car, until you actually check your speed.

Recently I spent few days in 2016 228xi, and was thinking, what a nice fun little car to drive this is. It feels very well put together, drives (and shocking for 4 cyl. engine) sounds good in the cabin (not that great once you're outside). But as fun, nimble and light as it feels, and I can't believe I'm saying this, I found myself missing the size, space and overall "smoothness" of 5 series.
I can agree, as a big man (6'4" and 235 lbs), I cannot get comfy in a 2 or 3 series. They are simply too small. However, I was not planning on getting an F10 because of it's girth and how the handling compared to my E60 550. I was instead planning to wait until the G30 came out. It is supposed to be about 250 lbs lighter than the F10, combine that with a stiffer chassis, M-Sport suspension, better weight distribution and you will (hopefully) have a car more comparable in handling to my old E60 than the F10 is with the comfort and tech of the F10.
The only reason I got an F10, if I'm honest, was because a drunk driver killed my E60. I was perfectly content waiting until next year to order a G30 (pending a test drive, of course)
I actually find the leg room to be more in the F30 compared to the F10
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      04-14-2016, 08:33 AM   #68
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I actually find the leg room to be more in the F30 compared to the F10
I'd say the same, pretty close anyway, but much more comfortable seating room and rear leg room in 5, of course shoulder room too. When you look, even rear leg room looks the same, but back seats in 3 series are not as deep, so slightly misleading.
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      04-14-2016, 10:16 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Bbb34 View Post
I'd say the same, pretty close anyway, but much more comfortable seating room and rear leg room in 5, of course shoulder room too. When you look, even rear leg room looks the same, but back seats in 3 series are not as deep, so slightly misleading.
Which is the major advantage for me over the F30 and even my previous E60s. My kids won't listen and stop growing, so it was getting to the point with the E60 that my kids had to grow detachable legs to fit behind me, this is not a problem with the F10
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      04-14-2016, 11:12 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by PJinCA View Post
Which is the major advantage for me over the F30 and even my previous E60s. My kids won't listen and stop growing, so it was getting to the point with the E60 that my kids had to grow detachable legs to fit behind me, this is not a problem with the F10
"My kids won't listen to me and stop growing" good one.
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      04-14-2016, 12:18 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by PJinCA View Post
It is larger and more comfortable for everyone. However, it also does not give me the thrills in the twisties that the E60 did.
I own an E60, I drove an F10 extensively last year and I fully agree. The steering feel and driver involvement is much better with the E60, but sometimes on long journeys I wish I had an F10 because of the comfort and efficiency.
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      04-15-2016, 05:59 PM   #72
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Not surprising. These things are just fantastic.

My F10 was/is also my first BMW and I couldn't be happier. I wake up every day trying to justify an M5 variant but just can't make it happen yet lol.
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      04-15-2016, 10:39 PM   #73
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Not surprising. These things are just fantastic.

My F10 was/is also my first BMW and I couldn't be happier. I wake up every day trying to justify an M5 variant but just can't make it happen yet lol.
This is my first BMW also and I now get it. I also couldn't be happier. Well... Maybe if I had held out for an M-Sport...
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      04-16-2016, 12:28 AM   #74
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My F10 535i Msport with the 704Msport suspension was the BEST car I ever owned.
Absolute pleasure to drive, ZERO reliability or quality issues, perfect balance of luxury and sport.
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      04-16-2016, 12:35 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by PJinCA View Post
The Lexus F-sport models tend to be heavy and not handle as well as their German counter parts (see: M4 vs IS-F - M4 less power, but way better braking, handling, steering, weight, leading to better 1/4, 1/2 miles times, and HUGE time differences on a lap of a track). I highly doubt the GS350 F-Sport outperforms the F10, they have identical HP ratings (306), and the Lexus is 150lbs heavier than the F10 (which is already a plump car). Now if you want to mention the GS450 (338 hp), that falls well short of the F10 550 (395 hp), and still weighs more. If you want to mention the GS-F, will that outperform an F10 535? Sure, unfortunately, it's target is actually the M5, and against that it is a truly sad competitor

P.S. Another reason I think of Lexus as a "nice" car and not a "performance" car is simple. One of the things I do love about BMW is that the platform is shared with NOTHING else. There isn't a cheapass car out there that my car is a rebadged version of, it is simply a BMW. The only car to share a platform with any BMW is Rolls Royce (it shares the 7 series platform and some mechanicals), and you could do a lot worse than that.

I could have gotten an Audi as well, a buddy is a partner at an Audi dealership, however, they are FUGLY. Besides, I still chuckle about owning a car from VAG (call me immature, whatever). For those that don't know VAG = Volkswagen Auto Group, which includes VW, AUdi, Porsche, Bentley, Lamborghini.
We have a splash screen on startup that says "BMW", a friend had a fun VW - the R32, and even he laughed every time the car started and "VAG" came across his NAV screen. No thanks
I think your a bit confused on the GS350.
It DOES NOT share its platform with other Lexus or Toyota on sale in US.
It is significantly lighter than a F10 535i - about 300lbs and hence feels lighter on its feet on tight roads with constant change in direction.

F10 is the better car overall - styling, engine, trans are all leagues above GS.
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      04-16-2016, 12:42 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by R N M View Post
I think your a bit confused on the GS350.
It DOES NOT share its platform with other Lexus or Toyota on sale in US.
It is significantly lighter than a F10 535i - about 300lbs and hence feels lighter on its feet on tight roads with constant change in direction.

F10 is the better car overall - styling, engine, trans are all leagues above GS.
2013 GS350 curb weight is 3795 lbs
2013 535 curb weight is 3814 lbs
If you can feel 19 lbs, you are extremely talented. But then, thos 19 lbs feel like 300 to you
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      04-17-2016, 12:49 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJinCA View Post
2013 GS350 curb weight is 3795 lbs
2013 535 curb weight is 3814 lbs
If you can feel 19 lbs, you are extremely talented. But then, thos 19 lbs feel like 300 to you
2016 GS350 F-Sport is 3,726 lbs
2016 535i is 3,957 lbs

The difference is 231 lbs.

Also, just drive a GS350 F-Sport. It handles great - definitely better than the 535i M Sport.

The curb weights are from:

http://www.lexus.com/models/GS/speci...rwd#dimensions
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
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      04-17-2016, 01:59 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJinCA View Post
2013 GS350 curb weight is 3795 lbs
2013 535 curb weight is 3814 lbs
If you can feel 19 lbs, you are extremely talented. But then, thos 19 lbs feel like 300 to you
Well considering you said GS is heavy and your post above shows its actually lighter even if its by 1lb - just proves my point you have zero clue about the Lexus GS platform!
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      04-18-2016, 12:58 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visualguy View Post
2016 GS350 F-Sport is 3,726 lbs
2016 535i is 3,957 lbs

The difference is 231 lbs.

Also, just drive a GS350 F-Sport. It handles great - definitely better than the 535i M Sport.

The curb weights are from:

http://www.lexus.com/models/GS/speci...rwd#dimensions
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx
So the Lexus "refined" version means they made it lighter..........and slower?
Here is what Car and Driver had to say:
"At the track the GS slipped uneventfully to 60 mph in 5.8 seconds—0.3 second slower than the last version we tested, a 2013 model. It’s also a full 1.2 seconds slower than the 2016 Audi A6, which enjoys the advantage of both more power and all-wheel-drive launch traction.

The quarter-mile falls in 14.3 seconds at 101 mph, at which point the GS is a full second and 4 mph behind the A6. It’s also down two-tenths and 1 mph from the 2013 GS350"
^^And that was an F sport
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      04-18-2016, 01:02 PM   #80
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And of course, here is what "TopSpeed" had to say about the new GS:

"The GS has always been competent, if a bit dull, and the 2016 model adds a bit of zip to its looks and brings it in line with the current Lexus model range. The changes aren’t exactly Earth shattering, but many of the foibles we experienced the previous GS seem to have been addressed. The new four-cylinder engine option also offers respectable performance and excellent fuel economy at what we anticipate will be a much lower cost.

LOVE IT
New four-cylinder option looks smart.
Predator mouth grill adds some visual flare and is starting to grow on us.
Typically solid Lexus build quality.
LEAVE IT
Not sure we would take one over its German rivals.
Options can add up quickly.
Performance still a bit lacking compared to rivals."
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      04-18-2016, 03:24 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visualguy View Post
Also, just drive a GS350 F-Sport. It handles great - definitely better than the 535i M Sport.
So, you're buying one as your next car I take - putting your money where your mouth is ?
I'm just kidding of course, giving you hard time just for fun, but to me, it's no contest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R N M View Post
F10 is the better car overall - styling, engine, trans are all leagues above GS.
This I agree with 100%. I know this is highly subjective and I'm likely a bit biased, but I did shop around with open mind before deciding on F10. A6 is the only one giving F10 run for the money in terms of fit and finish and handling. Although, exterior styling in my opinion, F10 wins hands down. E class is soft, though fit and finish is great, but no matter what measurements/spec numbers state, it's a bit cramped in the cabin for a car of that size. Cadillac is... well it's Cadillac as well as it may handle (did not get to drive it), and Lexus - well same applies here.

As I said many times before, in my opinion, the trick to good handling 5 series, or any BMW for that matter is choosing your options wisely, so many variations out there and they are changing almost every year, easy to get it wrong.
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      04-18-2016, 08:28 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Bbb34 View Post
So, you're buying one as your next car I take - putting your money where your mouth is ?
I'm just kidding of course, giving you hard time just for fun, but to me, it's no contest.
I'll most likely get the upcoming Audi S6 model next, but will consider the upcoming G30 M550i. If BMW manages to come somewhat close to the S6 with the M550i, then I'll go for the M550i because of the better lease deals.

I like the Lexus GS350 F Sport handling, but prefer a stronger engine. The GS-F might be interesting, but I didn't get a chance to test drive that one. I wish they had a good forced induction engine - maybe someday.
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      04-20-2016, 02:41 AM   #83
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With you on this, I believe this is the way many cars are going, every model is growing, so the way I see it for us into BM because of drivability part the next 3 series should be the 5 series we always aimed for, and the next 5 is the old 7 series, after all BMW had to introduce the 2 series to replace the 3 series of old times.
I see this happening with all car brands.
I do worry about the numbers, to me quantity never helped quality, plus devaluation, I find the current 3 series on cheap side in quality compare to the old one, the 5 series was a big improvement over the e60 just like you said, but it is stepping into 7 series ground luxury and comfort.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PJinCA View Post
This is both good and bad. As a BMW enthusiast, and having owned 2 previous E60s, I know - the F10 was a departure for BMW, they went away from a true enthusiast driver's car to a more comfortable and sedate car that appeals to more people. This led to record sales numbers, but also a car that is noticeably less capable as a driver's car than the previous E60, the E39, and the cars that preceded them.
Don't get me wrong, I have an F10 and I enjoy it. It meets the needs of mee and my family better than the E60 it replaced. It is larger and more comfortable for everyone. However, it also does not give me the thrills in the twisties that the E60 did.
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