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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum Dynamic Handling Package: Why it's the Best BMW Suspension Money Can Buy
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      09-03-2014, 03:00 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Interesting comments. But does the car need to be so 'tightly strung', if you are refining the suspension with adaptive technology?

I guess you are not a driver who sees the finer characteristics of a continuously adaptive system as translating to a better system. I know some like the predictability of a passive system, constant stiffness, etc., I'm one who gets the "soft where possible, firm when required" approach, which is where, IMO, adaptive suspension scores highly. ARS changes the game for needing a continuously tight feeling suspension, roll control 'on demand' only, changes the feel completely.

HighlandPete
Actually there is something to the athletic feeling I get from a car with an always-tight suspension. I agree with you that the adaptive model is soft unless it needs to be hard, and that correctly translates into a more relaxed feeling on the road, until you have to swerve or something. Having a car that feels relaxed makes me think I bought a car that's less sporty than it is. This is in my head, but I have a feeling the automotive press is experiencing the same struggle, based on what they've written about this car.

I haven't driven a 3 or 4 series with DHP, but people tell me that in Sport mode, those cars feel "stiffer" than the 704 suspension equivalents. I feel sure that is not the case with the F10. If the Sport mode were somewhat more aggressive, I might have no complaint, save maybe the price.

I wish Dinan would release that Shockware product for the 535.
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      09-03-2014, 03:00 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by WillInDenver View Post
I think the DHP on the xDrive F10 might be under-employed. The suspension differences between Comfort and Sport, in that car, simply are not substantial. I can definitely tell which one I'm in, but it's not a difference I want to pay $3500 for.
I get that it might not be worth the money to some, but unless xDrive is substantially different from RWD in how DHP is implemented (doubt it would be that much difference between the two) I have to disagree with you here.


The suspension differences between Comfort and Sport are night and day in my opinion. The car is completely transformed by changing the modes, especially going from comfort to sport.
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      09-03-2014, 03:21 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillInDenver View Post
Actually there is something to the athletic feeling I get from a car with an always-tight suspension. I agree with you that the adaptive model is soft unless it needs to be hard, and that correctly translates into a more relaxed feeling on the road, until you have to swerve or something. Having a car that feels relaxed makes me think I bought a car that's less sporty than it is. This is in my head, but I have a feeling the automotive press is experiencing the same struggle, based on what they've written about this car.

I haven't driven a 3 or 4 series with DHP, but people tell me that in Sport mode, those cars feel "stiffer" than the 704 suspension equivalents. I feel sure that is not the case with the F10. If the Sport mode were somewhat more aggressive, I might have no complaint, save maybe the price.
I think you are correct in your comment I've highlighted, and that many others are also feeling the car is soft. There is an indoctrinated view (certainly here in the UK) sporty must be felt, almost uncomfortable, or it isn't sporty. In fact many users live with suspensions/wheel setups which to be fair are unrefined, but viewed as sporty. Not always judged on how fast and comfortably we get from point to point.

I've read that in the 3/4 series BMW have set the adaptive sport a bit tighter than the passive sport, as there is an option to move to a comfort mode. I'm sure it is in a Q&A with BMW engineers somewhere on the forums.

I find I run my 5-series wagon in the mid setting, as sport is just too firm for some of the poor surfaces I drive regularly. The car is certainly more refined in normal mode. For me it is pitched right where I want it, but I do use all modes according to my mood and the roads I use.

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      09-03-2014, 03:32 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Bbb34 View Post
...The suspension differences between Comfort and Sport are night and day in my opinion. The car is completely transformed by changing the modes, especially going from comfort to sport.
I have the same feeling, but would add the thought that the different modes stand out more if surfaces we drive on are less than ideal.

Some of the roads I drive go over peat bogs, we have both low frequency undulations and erratic high frequency ripples. Challenging for any suspension, certainly tests the differences in the adaptive settings.

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      09-03-2014, 10:02 PM   #71
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I don't know why many people wants that edgy feel from a 5 series. The 5 series now is the same size as the previous 7 series. The 3 series now is the same size as the previous 5 series.

The difference between the settings in the F10 are dramatic. I can easily tell blind folded. Unless you lost all your senses, the car behaves drastically different between comfort and sport. You can immediately tell the difference as soon as everything tightens up or relaxed. Yes, it's not as high strung as a 2004 M3 but it's not a tiny car and purposely designed to be comfortable. If you want high strung, edgy, athletic feel then you need to look at 1, 2, 3 and 4 series. The 5 was specifically designed and marketed for comfort and luxury.

The last 5 I owned before this one was a 1998 528i. Sure, it was a lot more connected and I can toss it around more. However, that car is nowhere near the size, luxury or comfort the F10 has. In reality, the F10 behaves much better on the road. The only problem is that you just feel less of the road. Unsurprisingly, the newer 3 series feel almost exactly like my old 5 series minus the electric steer.
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      09-04-2014, 08:16 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by 493263
I don't know why many people wants that edgy feel from a 5 series. The 5 series now is the same size as the previous 7 series. The 3 series now is the same size as the previous 5 series.

The difference between the settings in the F10 are dramatic. I can easily tell blind folded. Unless you lost all your senses, the car behaves drastically different between comfort and sport. You can immediately tell the difference as soon as everything tightens up or relaxed. Yes, it's not as high strung as a 2004 M3 but it's not a tiny car and purposely designed to be comfortable. If you want high strung, edgy, athletic feel then you need to look at 1, 2, 3 and 4 series. The 5 was specifically designed and marketed for comfort and luxury.

The last 5 I owned before this one was a 1998 528i. Sure, it was a lot more connected and I can toss it around more. However, that car is nowhere near the size, luxury or comfort the F10 has. In reality, the F10 behaves much better on the road. The only problem is that you just feel less of the road. Unsurprisingly, the newer 3 series feel almost exactly like my old 5 series minus the electric steer.
Yeah, but Cadillac, Lexus, and Audi are all making cars that provide superior driving dynamics at the same size and comparable weight. Even BMW's own 6 series. The Panamera is even bigger and heavier.

You're right; BMW changed the recipe for the 5 with the F10. It's been undeniably successful for them so far be it from me to judge. I just feel like my last one was a lot more fun!
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      09-04-2014, 10:25 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillInDenver View Post
Yeah, but Cadillac, Lexus, and Audi are all making cars that provide superior driving dynamics at the same size and comparable weight. Even BMW's own 6 series. The Panamera is even bigger and heavier.

You're right; BMW changed the recipe for the 5 with the F10. It's been undeniably successful for them so far be it from me to judge. I just feel like my last one was a lot more fun!
The 5-series being a step down from the 7-series, rather than a step up from the 3-series does clearly have an impact.

Your market may be different than over here in the UK, where the 5-series clearly holds its place among the competition. The 5-series is at the top of the executive list, often takes first place in the 'best' list, but sometimes in second place to the Jaguar XF. Audi A6 is typically in around 4th place and the Lexus lower down still. Mercedes E Class often sits in the middle.

I sense we may be after a slightly different combination of luxury, refinement and dynamics. Whether that is due to use and efficiency, road quality, or the type of user, or a combination of factors, always hard to quantify. But it does appear BMW are pitching it pretty much in the correct place for our market. Over here BMW are often praised for the blend of qualities in the 5-series. There is the usual caveat that we need to specify the right options if we want to make it a better drive.

Also note the largest part of the 5-series market over here are 4-cylinder models, so lighter and more agile, that may be a factor in motor magazine assessment. A rare (if ever) sighting of a 550i and no xDrive versions also reflects in user choice and opinion on sportiness.

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      09-04-2014, 11:24 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillInDenver View Post
Yeah, but Cadillac, Lexus, and Audi are all making cars that provide superior driving dynamics at the same size and comparable weight. Even BMW's own 6 series. The Panamera is even bigger and heavier.

You're right; BMW changed the recipe for the 5 with the F10. It's been undeniably successful for them so far be it from me to judge. I just feel like my last one was a lot more fun!
The Cadillac is overall edgier and not as comfortable as the 550. I can't stand the new Lexus and Acura's new front ends. I swear a rapper built them. If I was to buy the Lexus, the new Toyota Avalon would have my money instead. I also feel the Jap's interior is not as well thought out especially the Acura. The Audi is nice overall and probably the best vehicle but their front LEDs are annoyingly too bright. Audi's interior is top notch but not to my liking. I just don't like the pop-up looking nav screen, the ugly shift stick, and crazy amounts of buttons/knobs around the shift stick. The Audi was a close contender but ultimately it feels like a well made tuxedo and I am just not a tuxedo type of guy.

If you like your previous 5, you should drive the 435i Gran Coupe. It's the best looking 4 door coupe BMW sells. It drives much more like the old 5s and has similar dimensions. It's also more useful than any 5 series besides the GT. But then again, the 5GT is a heavy, gas guzzling, ugly vehicle. I hate it with a passion.

The only reason I picked the 550xi over the 435 Gran Coupe is because I wanted a comfortable luxury car for road trips in the NorthEast US. There's no question that it is the best vehicle for that duty in this price range and class.
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      09-04-2014, 11:34 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
The 5-series being a step down from the 7-series, rather than a step up from the 3-series does clearly have an impact.
From my observations and the obvious options list for the 5s and 7s, the 5 series is for executives who drives themselves. The 7 series are for people with chauffeurs. The 7's main advantage over the 5 is its extra leg room and all the options for the rear seats. But honestly, if you're going to buy a 7, then a Benz S550 or S600 will do the job better.
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      09-04-2014, 02:34 PM   #76
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There might be cars in the same class that are better suited to someone's taste handling/look wise, it's highly subjective thing and hard to agree on.

Is DHP worth $3K+?
Personal decision each of us have to make.
In my opinion it gives this car quite impressive versatility and differences between DHP modes are significant. I for sure would pay for it after discovering how great it is.
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      09-04-2014, 04:39 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bbb34 View Post
Is DHP worth $3K+?
Personal decision each of us have to make.
In my opinion it gives this car quite impressive versatility and differences between DHP modes are significant. I for sure would pay for it after discovering how great it is.
Concur. DHP (and particularly the active roll stabilization) transforms this car. It is worth every penny of the $3K+.
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      09-04-2014, 07:09 PM   #78
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I think if everyone experienced DHP first before they make their decision to buy a car, most 550 buyers would have DHP, especially 550xi buyers. The problem being that dealers let people test drive what's on the lot and it's usually based on color preference and useless features. Almost no vehicle on the lot have DHP. Most people buying these cars are not enthusiasts and does not even know it exist. When they see it, they think it would give the car a harsh ride because it's "sport". Therefore, for the vast majority of buyers, dealers don't stock vehicles with DHP much.

In fact, my salesman admitted at the end that he didn't think I would even buy a vehicle. I'm 31 and I know too much about these vehicles while the typical buyers are 50+ years old and more interested in luxury and comfort. Because of that, I usually receive pretty crappy service from dealers when I purchase a vehicle.
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      09-22-2014, 10:39 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillInDenver View Post
One aspect of this discussion that hasn't come up yet is the cost to fix DHP down the road when it breaks. I realize most of us lease - self included at this point - but I have to believe that somebody is going to have some really bad days at the repair shop at about 85,000 miles.

I feel the same about PDK on a Porsche. As cool as it is, I might avoid it it I were going to push one down the road.

I had a 2004 Audi allroad, which had the adjustable air suspension. It was primitive compared to DHP - there was an actual airbag at each corner. They started breaking on me at 65,000 miles and each one was $1300 to fix.
I looked this up a few days ago, shock are about $800 a piece.
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      10-06-2014, 11:59 AM   #80
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I've had my 2015 550xi MSport about a week, coming from a 2012 535xi MSport. Trying to put aside the amazing motor in the N63TU, the Adaptive Drive is an must have option. No, my 550 isn't like a 3 series I had a few years ago, but Adaptive Drive makes the F10 much more nimble, much more responsive, more like what BMW wants to call the Ultimate Driving Experience. For a big car, WAY better with Adaptive Drive. I'll never get another BMW without it.
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      10-07-2014, 08:18 AM   #81
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I should tell you that even dynamic damper control alone is semi-active, changing shock valving and damper rates as you drive within the user-selected threshold (comfort, sport, etc.).

Great write up though. I'm sure a lot of people have benefitted from your study.
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      10-07-2014, 05:14 PM   #82
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OP, you are the reason we got DHP on our 2015 550i xDrive. Thank you!
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      10-21-2014, 04:20 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by digitalnoah View Post
On Tuesday of this week I took delivery of my new 535d with the DHP package. After driving it a few days, I have a couple of updates.
  • Overall -I absolutely love the way this car handles. It feels tight, responsive, flat, predictable, and endlessly smooth. I'm used to driving an 2008 e60, and there is simply no comparison. That old model was permanently soft and comfortable, and this new model feels much more confident and stable. And the DHP truly solves all the complaints about the f10 being too big, too heavy, and plagued by too much body roll.
  • On Dynamic Modes - I anticipated wanting to keep the car in Sport mode for the firmest dampening settings, but I've found that the standard Comfort mode is just about perfect for me. It is a great balance between sporty crispness and luxury comfort, which is exactly what I'd expect from a vehicle like this. With the 19" wheels and 40 series tires, the Sport mode feels a bit too firm and harsh for the back roads in my town where the roads are in bad shape (from last winter). I do like the Sport mode on a well paved back road, as it does tighten up the chassis noticeably.
  • It Aint the Dynamic Dampers - No matter what dampening settings you dial in, the real hero of the DHP is the Adaptive Drive and Active Roll Stabilization. Even in the softest settings, this car stays impossibly flat and square in corners – the car is literally counteracting physics and it makes for an amazing driving experience.
  • On Hitting Potholes - When hitting potholes and uneven pavement, my perception is that the DHP helps prevent that corner from deep diving, putting less of the car's weight into the pothole. I can't say whether or not there's actually less force and potential damage to the wheels/tires, but I can say that from the driver's seat, it certainly feels this way.
  • On Comfort - When in the Comfort+ mode, this is the most comfortable, smooth riding car I've ever driven. Eco-Pro mode is also very comfortable, but it makes the steering noodle-soft, which I think is a step too far.
Hi digitalnoah,
Were those tires OEM and if so I am assuming they were performance run-flats and not all-season. Please advise.
The reason i ask it that I am about to finalize an order on a 535i M Sport with the
Dynamic Handling Package and trying to meet my wife half way on a comfortable ride for her.
Trying to find out if there is an appreciable difference between the performance and all-season.
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      10-21-2014, 07:25 PM   #84
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Yes, the tires are the OEM all-season run-flats. I live in the Northeast and got the winter package and x-drive, which comes with a square wheel setup (same 19"x8.5" size all around) and all season tires.
BTW, my wife is also very picky about comfort and finds this car supremely comfortable. However, when put into Sport or Sport+, the steering and shocks tighten up and deliver the sportiness, too. With DHP you really get the best of both worlds.
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      10-21-2014, 07:27 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by secretanchitman View Post
OP, you are the reason we got DHP on our 2015 550i xDrive. Thank you!
That's awesome. I hope you enjoy your new car!
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      10-21-2014, 09:23 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalnoah View Post
Yes, the tires are the OEM all-season run-flats. I live in the Northeast and got the winter package and x-drive, which comes with a square wheel setup (same 19"x8.5" size all around) and all season tires.
BTW, my wife is also very picky about comfort and finds this car supremely comfortable. However, when put into Sport or Sport+, the steering and shocks tighten up and deliver the sportiness, too. With DHP you really get the best of both worlds.
That's great news.
So you have 19" 245/40 all-season run-flat tires.
May I ask what brand they are?
I've been hearing it can make a difference.
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      11-02-2014, 02:03 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by digitalnoah View Post
That's awesome. I hope you enjoy your new car!
We will on Tuesday!
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      11-03-2014, 10:25 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillInDenver View Post
Yeah, but Cadillac, Lexus, and Audi are all making cars that provide superior driving dynamics at the same size and comparable weight. Even BMW's own 6 series. The Panamera is even bigger and heavier.

You're right; BMW changed the recipe for the 5 with the F10. It's been undeniably successful for them so far be it from me to judge. I just feel like my last one was a lot more fun!
Really? I don't know.. every time I get into an Audi A6 I walk away not liking the way it drives or handles at all. I just cant like them even when I try.

My sweetest BMW was an E39 530 sport with a standard transmission. That particular car was as close to perfect as I have ever seen. I went from that into an e60 545. It was a nose heavy pig. Next was an E60 550 automatic, which was again nose heavy. I got rid of that 2 years into my 3 year lease and got into a new 2008 M3. The M3 made me smile.

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