[WULFFZA]

I don't see a post about this yet.
On pg 24 and 25 of the March Motortrend mag there is a Lexus ad spot that compares performance states of the 2013 Lexus GS F Sport against a 535i and an E350 Sport. The Lexus pips the BMW on autocross, braking and quarter mile. The pic is from the from the front of all 3 cars so you cannot tell if the BMW had a sport package and it isn't an M sport (which it should be if it is being compared to an F Sport). On the website the BMW appears to have a Sport package, but they also say the Lexus starts at $47k, I assume that is base....
Apparently you can cherry pick stats and people will believe at you have the superior car, even though you are comparing apples and oranges for different comparisons.
http://www.motortrend.com/lexusgschallenge/

[Sedoy]

Good for Lexus:

Curb Weight: 3,795 lb. (RWD) - that's what 535i should weight
Starting price: $46,900
F-sport looks sporty
Has long list of standard equipment
Great electronics


Bad:

6-speed auto… really in 2012?
Center console from minivan
28 HWY MPG

[rexus300]

I drove the new GS yesterday and wow it is simply more sharper, nimbler, and more fun to drive than my 535i xdrive. The GS felt amazing with blend of smooth and sportiness. Looks like it will be in my garage soon in my fleet of 4 German cars. I used to have Lexus before and got tired of it but this one is a spark by a huge leap forward over the older Lexus that I am amazed. I prefer the feel and ride of this GS over the 5 now.

[r3amir]

535i had a better time than GS F Sport, but only by a little.

GS looks over styled and not elegant.

[rexus300]

I find the GS very nicely designed in the Premium and Luxury versions and have more presence than the 5. Many agreed when both of the cars where next to each other.

[joey5622]

Is it just me or does the new GS only look good in some of the colors it's offered on? Something about how the chrome grill and lines not meshing well with the paint colors.. Not a fan of the trim choices either.. Loving the 12 display tho!!

Does the GS have any toys/tech that the F10 doesn't have?

[Losco]

I remember when AUDI brought A6 for press launch to Korea, and they put PSS on A6 and $100 bridgestone econo-crap on 528 and E300... talk about fair comparison!

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by joey5622

Is it just me or does the new GS only look good in some of the colors it's offered on? Something about how the chrome grill and lines not meshing well with the paint colors.. Not a fan of the trim choices either.. Loving the 12 display tho!!

Does the GS have any toys/tech that the F10 doesn't have?

You are right. It only looks good in Black, Dark Gray and Red based on my observation. Silver is okay. White and other colors look awful.

[Sedoy]

Originally Posted by joey5622

Does the GS have any toys/tech that the F10 doesn't have?

Yes, one of the best sound system:
Mark Levinson® 17-speaker, 835-watt * all channels driven @ less than 0.1% total harmonic distortion. Premium Surround Sound Audio System * with 7.1-channel architecture, digital amplifier and GreenEdgeTM speaker technology
$1,380 MSRP

[delvek]

Lexus is a Camry turd

It amazes me what I read on here

[rexus300]

Originally Posted by delvek

Lexus is a Camry turd

It amazes me what I read on here

Shame how people thing having a BMW means its superior than the Lexus. I don't care how much money you have. I have had worst BMW than Lexus overall before so I rather spend my money on a better product sometmes.

[Sedoy]

I would actually start to worry after realizing that "Camry turd" matches BMW 535i numbers with inferior engine and transmission. What happens when Lexus brings turbo-V6 and 7 or 8-speed tranny?

Originally Posted by delvek

Lexus is a Camry turd

It amazes me what I read on here

[stealth.pilot]

I took this car for a test drive today.

On the whole I disagree with the reviews regarding the driving experience. I can see why people might like the car on a track - but it didn't seem as good as the 535i for day to day driving.

Before you read the review, you should know that I currently own both a 2008 GS460 and a 2012 BMW 550i. I also recently test drove both the 535i and the A6 3.0T.

I took this car for a test drive today. They didn't have an F-Sport available so I took out the Luxury Package model with Active Variable Suspension. I did most of the test drive in Sport+ because that's how I roll, but I did check out Sport and Normal. I didn't bother with Eco because I don't care for Eco mode.

Bottom line - I was disappointed - actually prefer the 535i and the A6 from a driving experience perspective. Feel that my 3GS GS460 is a much more satisfying drive than the new GS350.

What I liked:
+ The interior is among the best in the market - and certainly best at this price(won't elaborate since I commented extensively on that in my Lexus of North Miami thread)
+ The car is much more solid than before. None of the body flex and shake that you had on the old GS when you took corners hard over expansion joints. It feels rock solid like the German cars do.
+ The engine has a nice punch at higher revs and no lag I think this is a quality which may make it enjoyable on an an auto-X track, but as I mention below, the lack of low-end torque is a problem in day to day driving.
+ It corners well because it is light, but it didn't seems to me to corner any better than the competition. I think part of this is because the car seems to be a little soft on turn-in compared with a BMW so you aren't inclined to be as aggressive with it.

What I didn't like:
- It feels sluggish off the line. I think it is because the naturally aspirated engine has peak torque at high revs, whereas the BMW 535i and A6 have much more low end torque. This means the BMW 535i feels like a much more powerful car in town driving than the Lexus GS350. On the whole I felt the 535i had as much engine response as my GS460, however the GS350 seems a big step down in terms of power. It may be there on paper, but as a driver - it feels sluggish to me.
- The steering doesn't seem as precise and sharp as the BMWs. It feels better than the old one, but it doesn't seem sporty to me yet. It's a little fuzzy on turn-in, has a little bit more play than BMWs.
- The car is loud. The engine requires revving to get the car moving, the exhaust is loud, the engine doesn't have that soft electric whine I associate with Lexus engines, but more of a roar I associate with Jaguars and Porsches. The BMW feels more refined as a result. One of the things I liked about the old GS was how quiet the car is - the old GS seemed very refined, this felt rough.
- No Auto Handbrake. BMW and Audi have this feature where it automatically applies handbrake when you are in drive but standstill. It saves the need to keep your foot on the brake when standstill at lights or in traffic. I love this feature and was disappointed Lexus does not offer it in the GS but only in the LS.
- Lack of dynamic range in AVS. The difference between Sport mode and Normal mode is noticeable, however I would like Lexus to offer a true comfort mode. The dynamic range between the softest and firmest settings is limited compared with what the German's offer.

On the whole I was not impressed.

[rexus300]

Stealth.Pilot,

Since the GS is naturally aspirated it takes time to break in and get faster. I had the same issue on the older GS. So I would not conclude it is sluggish by all means. The turbo on the 535i is bad with the lag in between gears.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by baloo588

Stealth.Pilot,

Since the GS is naturally aspirated it takes time to break in and get faster. I had the same issue on the older GS. So I would not conclude it is sluggish by all means. The turbo on the 535i is bad with the lag in between gears.

My perspective is the lag is less bad than having to go to 5-6k rpms to get some torque. Also the A6 engine seems light years ahead to the one in the GS.

I really did not like the power train. I thought the power delivery was terrible compared with the Forced Induction engines, and even compared with Infiniti's NA V6.

[rexus300]

Stealth Pilot.

Interesting observation. I will have to test the GS again. I wonder if Lexus will ever offer a V8 in this car now. The GS460 is with a great engine.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by baloo588

Stealth Pilot.

Interesting observation. I will have to test the GS again. I wonder if Lexus will ever offer a V8 in this car now. The GS460 is with a great engine.

Yes the Lexus V8 is one of the best engines ever made. It would really transform the GS.

I think the Hybrid will be good too. At least the electric motor will boost low end torque.

[delvek]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

I took this car for a test drive today.

On the whole I disagree with the reviews regarding the driving experience. I can see why people might like the car on a track - but it didn't seem as good as the 535i for day to day driving.

Before you read the review, you should know that I currently own both a 2008 GS460 and a 2012 BMW 550i. I also recently test drove both the 535i and the A6 3.0T.

I took this car for a test drive today. They didn't have an F-Sport available so I took out the Luxury Package model with Active Variable Suspension. I did most of the test drive in Sport+ because that's how I roll, but I did check out Sport and Normal. I didn't bother with Eco because I don't care for Eco mode.

Bottom line - I was disappointed - actually prefer the 535i and the A6 from a driving experience perspective. Feel that my 3GS GS460 is a much more satisfying drive than the new GS350.

What I liked:
+ The interior is among the best in the market - and certainly best at this price(won't elaborate since I commented extensively on that in my Lexus of North Miami thread)
+ The car is much more solid than before. None of the body flex and shake that you had on the old GS when you took corners hard over expansion joints. It feels rock solid like the German cars do.
+ The engine has a nice punch at higher revs and no lag I think this is a quality which may make it enjoyable on an an auto-X track, but as I mention below, the lack of low-end torque is a problem in day to day driving.
+ It corners well because it is light, but it didn't seems to me to corner any better than the competition. I think part of this is because the car seems to be a little soft on turn-in compared with a BMW so you aren't inclined to be as aggressive with it.

What I didn't like:
- It feels sluggish off the line. I think it is because the naturally aspirated engine has peak torque at high revs, whereas the BMW 535i and A6 have much more low end torque. This means the BMW 535i feels like a much more powerful car in town driving than the Lexus GS350. On the whole I felt the 535i had as much engine response as my GS460, however the GS350 seems a big step down in terms of power. It may be there on paper, but as a driver - it feels sluggish to me.
- The steering doesn't seem as precise and sharp as the BMWs. It feels better than the old one, but it doesn't seem sporty to me yet. It's a little fuzzy on turn-in, has a little bit more play than BMWs.
- The car is loud. The engine requires revving to get the car moving, the exhaust is loud, the engine doesn't have that soft electric whine I associate with Lexus engines, but more of a roar I associate with Jaguars and Porsches. The BMW feels more refined as a result. One of the things I liked about the old GS was how quiet the car is - the old GS seemed very refined, this felt rough.
- No Auto Handbrake. BMW and Audi have this feature where it automatically applies handbrake when you are in drive but standstill. It saves the need to keep your foot on the brake when standstill at lights or in traffic. I love this feature and was disappointed Lexus does not offer it in the GS but only in the LS.
- Lack of dynamic range in AVS. The difference between Sport mode and Normal mode is noticeable, however I would like Lexus to offer a true comfort mode. The dynamic range between the softest and firmest settings is limited compared with what the German's offer.

On the whole I was not impressed.

Great write up but if I may summarize:

Lexus is a Camry turd

[CAPSGOD]

Originally Posted by delvek

Lexus is a Camry turd

It amazes me what I read on here

Originally Posted by delvek

Great write up but if I may summarize:

Lexus is a Camry turd

[r3amir]

Originally Posted by delvek

Great write up but if I may summarize:

Lexus is a Camry turd

+1

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by baloo588

Stealth Pilot.

Interesting observation. I will have to test the GS again. I wonder if Lexus will ever offer a V8 in this car now. The GS460 is with a great engine.

Lexus no longer offers the V8 for the GS, and has no intention of offering it. I hate to break it down to you, but the only 2 sporty cars worth owning by Toyota (in 2012), are the FR-S and the LFA. One is powered by Subaru and the other is powered by Yamaha (catching the drift?). The FR-S might be fun, but the Subaru's version looks better. The LFA costs more than the Ferrari 599 (fully loaded), end of the day, you're driving a $400k USD Lexus. Toyota created an ISF, supposedly the M3 killer, but heavier and slower than the M3 4dr.

In conclusion. Toyota has taken all the fun cars away from the Jap car fans. The great cars like the 2000GT, Supra Twin Turbos, MR-2 Turbo, Celica GTS, etc. are now in distant memories. It is now a company known to make great mini vans, reliable mid sized sedans, great trucks, and comfortable (but dull looking) luxury vehicles.

Please don't bash on BMW and its owners. You have to own a good BMW to really "get it." Every BMW I've driven gives a solid connection between me, and the road. It's like an extension of yourself and very enjoyable to drive/corner.

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by WULFFZA

I don't see a post about this yet.
On pg 24 and 25 of the March Motortrend mag there is a Lexus ad spot that compares performance states of the 2013 Lexus GS F Sport against a 535i and an E350 Sport. The Lexus pips the BMW on autocross, braking and quarter mile. The pic is from the from the front of all 3 cars so you cannot tell if the BMW had a sport package and it isn't an M sport (which it should be if it is being compared to an F Sport). On the website the BMW appears to have a Sport package, but they also say the Lexus starts at $47k, I assume that is base....
Apparently you can cherry pick stats and people will believe at you have the superior car, even though you are comparing apples and oranges for different comparisons.
http://www.motortrend.com/lexusgschallenge/

I got that ad in front of me, Automobile March 2012. The 5-series has the staggered wheel setup, but not the M Package.

This is what I like about BMW, they have nothing to prove to others. They don't need to bash their competitors to stay ahead of the game. I love watching the Audi ads on TV, always bashing other luxury vehicles (especially its toughest competition, BMW). I watch an Infiniti ad the other day, of kids throwing snow balls at the BMW driver (really?). If your product is the best, people will notice. No need to launch a bashing campaign. It will just turn most buyers off.

FYI: I traded my '08 Infiniti G35x for my first BMW, the E90 (330i) now F10. Traded the other '11 FX35 for the BMW E70. I'm sold on the brand through owning the first BMW, not by reading/watching bashful ad campaigns.