[Wizo]

Howdy,

I promise I spent the last 2 weeks reading and doing my due diligence before I dropped my questions.
I have a 2013 f10 550i N63 msport. I have been torn inside about adding a BMS tune stage 1 to my car. I have ordere it but already plan on returning it. This is a quasi work/personal car that I will have for a year. Assumed a lease.

I just scheduled my service appointment to do a brake flush and oil change - they will be then ordering the parts to do the customer care package.
I am worried since this motor is notorious and plagued with injector issues, vacuum pump failures, solenoid sticking, and timing chain problems - that tuning could give the stealer a great way out of warranty work. Obviously I was going to add tune after the work was completed. I am also worried that the BMS can be read by the dealer even though it's a piggy back that there was additional boost and fuel being ordered by the mAF.
Questions:
1. Since this is work car and I blow it up..could get in some serious trouble; would you mess with tune?
2. If you remove the piggy back can they tell?
3. Anyone have failure due to the added hp?
4. Is the tune really that much better that it's worth the risk?

I appreciate the help and its a freaking very nice ride...glad to be part of this board.

[ezmaass]

I wouldn't touch it personally.

I don't know the exact situation (who technically owns the car, pays for it, how it's titled or registered, etc.), but the fact that you're calling it a "work car" and could "get in serious trouble" is enough for me to say - stay clear of a tune.

Even if it were a personal car, I'd probably not worry about the tune. The 550 has plenty of power (even original N63), so it's really not necessary to tune it further for regular DD usage. It has plenty of passing power for the highway, and quick off the line if you're trying to cut over a lane or something.

Get the customer care package done and just enjoy the car. Return the tune. There will be responses here of guys telling you not to worry, they have it on their pre-LCI, no problems, blah, blah, blah. But really, if it can cause you issues with your employer, it's just not worth it IMHO. Plus, like I said, the car has tons of power as it is - anything extra wouldn't likely be well-utilized unless you're planning to drag race your 5-series.... and please say you aren't planning that!

[SonicEndeavor]

The likelihood of having problems related to the tune are exceptionally low, especially with only one year before the end of your lease. I've never heard of engine problems caused by a BMS tune, but yes a diagnostic can tell that a tune was installed, if BMW felt a need to look into it.
What would you be trying to accomplish with the tune? A specific 0-60 or quarter mile time? If not, I agree with ezmaass, enjoy your already very fast car as is.

[493263]

Originally Posted by SonicEndeavor

The likelihood of having problems related to the tune are exceptionally low, especially with only one year before the end of your lease.

The likely of problems occurring with any tune is up significantly. It may seem low to you because the people who does this usually maintain their cars better. They also tend to discount any problems if they prevented it or fixed it before it becomes a major meltdown(because they considered it as maintenance).

And an intelligent BMW tech will probably know if you used a tune if he looks at your datalog. They don't usually do this though because the vast majority of BMW owners don't mod their cars(they're not looking to bust you, it's just a job and paycheck). The modders usually go for the older cars and doesn't take it to the dealer for maintenance/repair.

Increasing power by any means, especially raising boost, WILL decrease reliability by a good amount. There's so such thing as a free lunch or even cheap lunch when it comes to modding. The risks are always high unless you know what you're doing and constantly maintain it.

[The X Men]

I agree, engineers usually have a build in safety factor, by boosting the turbo and HP without the supporting components and design, you are basically taking away the safety factor and the engine's reliability will be compromise.

[badblack550xi]

It's a used car how can they prove he was the one who ran the tune and not the guy before him ?

Stage 1 has never cause any issues because it is a mild boost... it also spoofs the car to think it's in much warmer conditions which makes the stock ECU run more boost to compensate for heat... Which means it's a stock BMW map running more boost, gas and timing to make up for the conditions. Even Top Gear mentions this in their last episode with the M6..

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Wizo

Howdy,

I promise I spent the last 2 weeks reading and doing my due diligence before I dropped my questions.
I have a 2013 f10 550i N63 msport. I have been torn inside about adding a BMS tune stage 1 to my car. I have ordere it but already plan on returning it. This is a quasi work/personal car that I will have for a year. Assumed a lease.

I just scheduled my service appointment to do a brake flush and oil change - they will be then ordering the parts to do the customer care package.
I am worried since this motor is notorious and plagued with injector issues, vacuum pump failures, solenoid sticking, and timing chain problems - that tuning could give the stealer a great way out of warranty work. Obviously I was going to add tune after the work was completed. I am also worried that the BMS can be read by the dealer even though it's a piggy back that there was additional boost and fuel being ordered by the mAF.
Questions:
1. Since this is work car and I blow it up..could get in some serious trouble; would you mess with tune?
2. If you remove the piggy back can they tell?
3. Anyone have failure due to the added hp?
4. Is the tune really that much better that it's worth the risk?

I appreciate the help and its a freaking very nice ride...glad to be part of this board.

the BMS is very safe and have been test by thousands of users so far.
Just remove it before your dealership visit and you should be fine.

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by badblack550xi

Stage 1 has never cause any issues because it is a mild boost... it also spoofs the car to think it's in much warmer conditions which makes the stock ECU run more boost to compensate for heat... Which means it's a stock BMW map running more boost, gas and timing to make up for the conditions.

If that's all stage one does, that would mean that the stage one would provide no performance increase during the summer.

[badblack550xi]

Originally Posted by The X Men

If that's all stage one does, that would mean that the stage one would provide no performance increase during the summer.

What lol it still increases the temps that it reads so it makes it even hotter reading making power.

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by badblack550xi

What lol it still increases the temps that it reads so it makes it even hotter reading making power.

Simulated higher temp will increase turbo boost, so we are back to square one of the discussion which is increasing the boost pass the factory design point.

[badblack550xi]

Originally Posted by The X Men

Simulated higher temp will increase turbo boost, so we are back to square one of the discussion which is increasing the boost pass the factory design point.

With in the manufacturers specs ECU adjusts.

[SonicEndeavor]

Originally Posted by 493263

The likely of problems occurring with any tune is up significantly.

That's just flat out untrue.
The OP is talking about a mild tune that's proven itself in tens of thousands of cars. The N63 can easily handle that boost and plenty more as proven by several guys on these boards.

[badblack550xi]

Originally Posted by SonicEndeavor

That's just flat out untrue.
The OP is talking about a mild tune that's proven itself in tens of thousands of cars. The N63 can easily handle that boost and plenty more as proven by several guys on these boards.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by SonicEndeavor

That's just flat out untrue.
The OP is talking about a mild tune that's proven itself in tens of thousands of cars. The N63 can easily handle that boost and plenty more as proven by several guys on these boards.

+1

[badblack550xi]

i mean i have stage 2 for 35k miles now and run it every week i am yet to blow something.. not sure if that's considered long term.

[493263]

Originally Posted by badblack550xi

i mean i have stage 2 for 35k miles now and run it every week i am yet to blow something.. not sure if that's considered long term.

And your car had engine problems recently. I'm also pretty sure you had other problems with your car prior to that so don't give me those lies. Like all modders, they tend to discount the problems as minor and brush it off. Or if they got it fixed, they won't even count it(like you). Maybe by some miracle, you're one of the few that got away relatively unscathed.

It's actually pretty easy to statistically prove how reliable modding is compared to keeping it stock. Check how much money spent to maintain the car and how many items have to be bought at what frequency. I used to go to the hobby shop where you can borrow garages and tools to fix your car on base. The modders always claim their car are just as reliable or even more reliable. But then they are also there every other week either fixing or doing maintenance on a higher frequency. During my modding days, I'm always working on something on my car. I modded everything from Prelude H22As to Mustang Cobras. I always felt like it was "reliable" until I stopped modding and realize how much more reliable cars were being stock.

I really don't understand why you would even argue about reliability when it comes to modding. I'm sure you know others that spent a lot of money fixing their broken stuff or high maintenance costs. Sending a modified signal to trick your car's ECU to increase boost, raising temperature, higher rev, etc... will very significantly increase failure rates. What are the main reason for engine/tranny failures? heat, pressure, torque and vibrations. The BMS tune effectively increased all 4 and tricks the CPU into thinking it's normal.

[kondor]

Originally Posted by 493263

And your car had engine problems recently.

The vast majority of 550 owners were affected by the N63 engine issues. My car was in the shop 3 different times due to premature failures of components covered by the service bulletin.....and mine is completely stock....for the time being.

I have a catback exhaust and BMS stage 2 ready for install and I'm not even the slightest bit worried about it.

[badblack550xi]

Originally Posted by 493263

And your car had engine problems recently. I'm also pretty sure you had other problems with your car prior to that so don't give me those lies. Like all modders, they tend to discount the problems as minor and brush it off. Or if they got it fixed, they won't even count it(like you). Maybe by some miracle, you're one of the few that got away relatively unscathed.

It's actually pretty easy to statistically prove how reliable modding is compared to keeping it stock. Check how much money spent to maintain the car and how many items have to be bought at what frequency. I used to go to the hobby shop where you can borrow garages and tools to fix your car on base. The modders always claim their car are just as reliable or even more reliable. But then they are also there every other week either fixing or doing maintenance on a higher frequency. During my modding days, I'm always working on something on my car. I modded everything from Prelude H22As to Mustang Cobras. I always felt like it was "reliable" until I stopped modding and realize how much more reliable cars were being stock.

I really don't understand why you would even argue about reliability when it comes to modding. I'm sure you know others that spent a lot of money fixing their broken stuff or high maintenance costs. Sending a modified signal to trick your car's ECU to increase boost, raising temperature, higher rev, etc... will very significantly increase failure rates. What are the main reason for engine/tranny failures? heat, pressure, torque and vibrations. The BMS tune effectively increased all 4 and tricks the CPU into thinking it's normal.

i have an N63 which got a recall that was my only issue with the car... yet it still holds a record for n63 1/4.... I have had no issues what so ever from the tune and daily drive this car... This is on stage 2 and down pipes and intakes so i am way far from what a stage 1 does to a stock car. I drive daily on most aggressive setting my car can handle. But i guess you know better

[kondor]

Originally Posted by badblack550xi

i have an N63 which got a recall that was my only issue with the car... yet it still holds a record for n63 1/4.... I have had no issues what so ever from the tune and daily drive this car... This is on stage 2 and down pipes and intakes so i am way far from what a stage 1 does to a stock car. I drive daily on most aggressive setting my car can handle. But i guess you know better

[Wizo]

I appreciate everyone and your feedback. It's clear reading your responses that the reason I am torn is there are two trains of thought.
I think my car is petty fast out the box but I am sure the bms tune will make it seem untouchable...the reason I would tune it would be strictly to have the hp on tap. I won't be going to the strip or going out of my way to line her up, but I do enjoy getting onto highway and the occasional 0-100 runs on a open stretch of highway (straight line and no cars).
On the flip side the apprehensions are that I take her in shortly for the customer care package, they don't find a problem but 2 months down the road some injectors fail again and....I am out of pocket. I guess worse than that would be they deny warranty and not allow me to return the car off lease.
I have had an Audi b7, S6,E55, and Chyrsler 300 chipped. I never had a problem but I owned those cars myself and not through work. I guess the saying goes...if it can go wrong it almost always does, especially when you don't need it to.

I guess I will return it. Drive the car for a few months and if I really think I need it I will order it again. I was really looking forward to seeing the car open it's potential

[Ben2k9]

Originally Posted by Wizo

I appreciate everyone and your feedback. It's clear reading your responses that the reason I am torn is there are two trains of thought.
I think my car is petty fast out the box but I am sure the bms tune will make it seem untouchable...the reason I would tune it would be strictly to have the hp on tap. I won't be going to the strip or going out of my way to line her up, but I do enjoy getting onto highway and the occasional 0-100 runs on a open stretch of highway (straight line and no cars).
On the flip side the apprehensions are that I take her in shortly for the customer care package, they don't find a problem but 2 months down the road some injectors fail again and....I am out of pocket. I guess worse than that would be they deny warranty and not allow me to return the car off lease.
I have had an Audi b7, S6,E55, and Chyrsler 300 chipped. I never had a problem but I owned those cars myself and not through work. I guess the saying goes...if it can go wrong it almost always does, especially when you don't need it to.

I guess I will return it. Drive the car for a few months and if I really think I need it I will order it again. I was really looking forward to seeing the car open it's potential

I think they have to prove you used a mod, and secondly that that mod was the direct cause of the engine problem before you run into warranty problems.

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by badblack550xi

With in the manufacturers specs ECU adjusts.

yes, within in the manufacturers specs ECU but with a higher boost, that's where the HP comes from. I have done many performance mods in the pass and I know the risk. In today's HP race among car manufacturers, if BMW could have squeeze out another 40 HP safely thru an increase in boost, they would have done so from the factory. To safety increase boost and HP, you need to look at the whole drivetrain. The M5's powertrain for example, is lot more than just an increase in boost when compare to the N63.

Below is a good link on chip tuning:

"Advantages and Disadvantages of Chip Tuning
Manufacturers design ECU chip software that will result in the highest possible gas mileage and lowest emissions. The drawback to this can be less available power and torque. ECU chip tuning can provide substantially more power and better performance but it can also mean a noticeable reduction in gas mileage and may result in increased emissions. In addition, ECU chip tuning may void the manufacturer’s drive train warranty. Chip tuning can also cause some engine components, such as the ignition coils, to require more frequent replacement, increasing vehicle ownership costs. While most cars will realize at least some performance boost with chip tuning; turbo cars will generally experience the most noticeable increase in power.
There are a good number of risks to tuning your engine chip. It can be very difficult to determine how to tune the chip itself. Understandably, many manufacturers do not want customers to change the engine chips and the vehicle settings in their cars, so they purposefully make it difficult to do so, and do not provide guidelines on how to do this.
If you happen to adjust the settings in the incorrect way, you can decrease the overall performance of your vehicle instead of increase it. In some cases, the changes that you make may even cause permanent and irreversible damage to your engine.
Chip tuning is a great way to increase horsepower and performance, if done correctly. It is very important to use only reputable companies for any sort of vehicle modification in order to prevent serious engine or ECU damage. Keep in mind that chip tuning can, in some situations, increase ownership costs by increasing fuel consumption and requiring more frequent replacement of engine parts. For drivers seeking an appreciable boost in power and performance, chip tuning may just be the way to go."

http://www.autos.com/aftermarket-par...p-tuning-guide