[Surly73]

Hi all:

I have 27k km (16,500 miles) on my 2011 535xi and I'm looking to do some "long term ownership" fluid changes. I know that the F10 is still in the "let's talk tint, wheels and stereos" stage but we should be getting to wrenching discussions soon I'm hoping.

I've wrenched on BMWs for years, but I'm looking for perhaps some specific tips from those who have done some of this already.

Note that I have a dealer extended warranty through the end of 2018. I don't want to cause any issues or get a hassle about warranty issues when I do this work. I also don't want to pay the criminal Canadian dealer prices on all parts and fluids (don't even get into labour) so I'm shopping around.


TRANSFER CASE:
It looks to me like the drain and fill plugs have rubber O-rings, not crush washers, so no parts need to be ordered. Should just be raise the car level, drain, fill till it runs out, and done - right? I plan to use genuine OEM fluid for this.

DIFFERENTIALS:
My E90 really annoyed me with it only having a FILL plug and no drain plug, meaning I had to use an extractor to get "most" of the original fluid out. Is the F10 the same way? Both front and rear? The diagrams at RealOEM aren't clear but I think, again, that they have real O-rings instead of crush washers. Am I correct? I intend to use Amsoil SVG or Redline 75W90 for this application but I'd like something that at a glance or smell isn't way different than the Castrol SAF-XO that comes in the car. Is SAF-XO stinky? Is it golden in colour?

COOLANT:
Best DIY to change coolant? Done it on lots of BMWs and I liked my E90s program to automatically bleed using the electric water pump. The issue is that I think that the E90s documented method to do it (hold throttle at WOT for 30 seconds with key on) does something else on the F10 - clear all transmission adaptations. Any comments on proper bleeding and draining the block on the N55 F10? I plan to use BMW OE coolant.

TRANSMISSION:
I've seen generic ZF videos on changing the fluid/pan, and I've done the work before on an E39 in the family (all of my previous cars have been MT). Who has done it on an F10, preferably a 535? Does the transmission actually need to be lowered on an F10? Best source for an OE pan/filter? What was used for fluid? I am only planning a drain/replace, not a flush, so I was thinking of using ZF Lifeguard 8, not specifically the BMW bottle - how much do I need for a pan drop? I'd love to use something like Amsoil ATL but the transmission is something I don't want to take any warranty gambles with. Best source for ZF LG8 or Shell M-L12108?

[ausfahrt]

Anybody do the A/T drain and fill yet?

[EV0LVE]

Originally Posted by ausfahrt

Anybody do the A/T drain and fill yet?

I have not but I heard it's fairly complex to do properly. The car has to be level, as in use a leveling tool precisely level, most garages have a slight slope so that's not considered level. Secondly the car has to be on a specific temp while adding the fluid.

I had it done thru an independent and it was about $800 including the pan, where the filter is. The ZF fluid is about $25 per quart, you'll need 8.

[Surly73]

Searching this forum for "differential" doesn't result in a lot of hits so I figured I would follow up to my own thread from a couple of years back. Also because this isn't a full, illustrated DIY I figure it doesn't deserve a thread of its own.

I got around to doing both differentials yesterday. Here are some notes. Although it's a 2011, I only have 70,000km (45,000mi) so even though I would have liked to do it sooner, they are not recklessly overdue.

Fluids.

Consult with ETK and online sources like RealOEM and bimmercat. There seems to be a fair bit of complication here, with specifications changing between SAF-XO, OSP, Hypoid G1 and Hypod G2 with seemingly overlapping production dates and service bulletin dates specifying fluids. I did lots of looking online, asked a couple of forum folks, and spent about half an hour with the local dealer parts counter (where I fear I may have taught the counter person a few things). They pulled in their service liason too to try to figure this out.

NewTIS has a number of very simple-looking notes on allowed fluids that should be straightforward which aren't in 100% alignment with dealer ETK.

Some notes on Front: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...ion/1VndAkI4Dp

And the rear: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...ide/1VnczONFlo

Based on everything in front of me, and my 03/2011 or 04/2011 production date (different BMW systems disagree on this) I chose -

Front: Hypoid Axle Oil G2 2x500mL bottles for $132CAD
Rear: SAF-XO was probably in my car (substituted with Amsoil SVT 75W110) $18/L


Rear

The rear diff only has a full plug, the front has a fill and drain. The plugs use a 14mm hex socket and are an O-ring type, not a crush washer type. For years I had been reusing them assuming they weren't damaged, but TIS says to replace every time. So I ran to the dealer to spend an extra $40. Look for these at other places like ECS or FCP if you're planning the job.

Other than having to extract the fluid it was straightforward. The original fluid was dark brown for me.


Front

A much bigger pain than I was expecting. The front stiffening plate must be removed to access the diff. This has ten single-use stretch bolts with a torque spec of 15Nm to seat plus 90 degrees. Another $80 at the dealer.

TIS also says to remove the left steering box cover. I had to do this to get clearance to remove the stiffening plate, and get a multi-extension hex bit affair at the fill plug. So you'll need a lot of 3/8" socket extensions, 1/2" tools may not fit through the gap. You'll need to bring these extensions through a convoluted path nearly to the left wheel. Ditto with the tubing to refill.

The drain plug is right on the bottom of the diff and easy access.

So the fluid volume spec is something like 0.8L to change the front diff, so I bought two bottles. I planned on possibly returning one since I figured they made them in 500mL bottles instead of 1L for a reason. I pumped the first full bottle into the diff and it didn't run out. I open the second bottle and after the first pump it ran out So there's $56 wasted. The long tubing required basically held all that was needed to be at the right level.

Buttoned everything back up. Seems fine. Both jobs took the whole afternoon because of complication with the front and an extra trip to the dealer. It was mostly fighting for access to do a very simple procedure.

I took fluid samples from both to possibly send to Blackstone.

AT fluid will also be done this spring.

[David_Vasha]

Sorry Surly to bump up this old thread, but I found that redline 75w85 gl 5 is approved as a g1 and G2 Hypoid oil. What do you think on this? I am trying to justify buying two bottles of bmw G2 Fluid but it's just so absurd that I would be wasting almost half of the second bottle!!

[Unspec]

Originally Posted by David_Vasha

Sorry Surly to bump up this old thread, but I found that redline 75w85 gl 5 is approved as a g1 and G2 Hypoid oil. What do you think on this? I am trying to justify buying two bottles of bmw G2 Fluid but it's just so absurd that I would be wasting almost half of the second bottle!!

It's not approved, just recommended by red line. Having said that, I'm sure it's fine. I agree about the G2, it's stupid as hell that the diff takes 600ML and they sell only 500ML bottles.

[Sylverlee]

When I did mine, I was actually only able to get around 400ml.

[David_Vasha]

Originally Posted by Unspec

It's not approved, just recommended by red line. Having said that, I'm sure it's fine. I agree about the G2, it's stupid as hell that the diff takes 600ML and they sell only 500ML bottles.

Whenever you do it let me know how it goes. I'm gonna focus on my transmission fluid for right now

[Sylverlee]

Originally Posted by David_Vasha

Whenever you do it let me know how it goes. I'm gonna focus on my transmission fluid for right now

Curious how that goes, as that's my to-do list as well. All seems to be relatively self explanatory minus the refill while the engine is running.

[Unspec]

Originally Posted by David_Vasha

Whenever you do it let me know how it goes. I'm gonna focus on my transmission fluid for right now

Will do, will probably tackle it when it gets warmer in april. Working in a cold concrete garage in the 30-40s really kills dexterity.

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by David_Vasha

Sorry Surly to bump up this old thread, but I found that redline 75w85 gl 5 is approved as a g1 and G2 Hypoid oil. What do you think on this? I am trying to justify buying two bottles of bmw G2 Fluid but it's just so absurd that I would be wasting almost half of the second bottle!!

Well - like I said, they changed specifications through all of these different fluids settling on G2. I don't know why it's different, but everyone who opens their diffs say that the front diff fluid seems extra "used up", darkened and burnt.

For, let's say, E39 automatics. They have a BMW specified fluid, which it turns out is Esso LT71141. Lots of really good ATFs says they are intended for LT71141 applications and fully compatible. I put Amsoil ATF (which listed LT71141 as an intended application) in an E39 and it worked better than new. In this case BMW didn't specify a whole series of fluids which they superceded and made obsolete, leading to a TIS bulletin listing only three exceptions to G2 for front diffs, with no clear indication what was different.

I find almost no manufacturers who said they were equivalent to G1 or G2. Amsoil and other web sites had NO driveline fluid recommendations for the F10 (and Amsoil makes a lot of fluids).

As I explained in another thread - I just went with real G2. Who knows how many years before I have to spend another $80 on fluid (or whatever).

Originally Posted by Unspec

It's not approved, just recommended by red line. Having said that, I'm sure it's fine. I agree about the G2, it's stupid as hell that the diff takes 600ML and they sell only 500ML bottles.

Mine took 500mL plus a single pump from my bottle pump. If I had not opened the second bottle I could have returned it.

[Unspec]

Originally Posted by Surly73

Well - like I said, they changed specifications through all of these different fluids settling on G2. I don't know why it's different, but everyone who opens their diffs say that the front diff fluid seems extra "used up", darkened and burnt.

For, let's say, E39 automatics. They have a BMW specified fluid, which it turns out is Esso LT71141. Lots of really good ATFs says they are intended for LT71141 applications and fully compatible. I put Amsoil ATF (which listed LT71141 as an intended application) in an E39 and it worked better than new. In this case BMW didn't specify a whole series of fluids which they superceded and made obsolete, leading to a TIS bulletin listing only three exceptions to G2 for front diffs, with no clear indication what was different.

I find almost no manufacturers who said they were equivalent to G1 or G2. Amsoil and other web sites had NO driveline fluid recommendations for the F10 (and Amsoil makes a lot of fluids).

As I explained in another thread - I just went with real G2. Who knows how many years before I have to spend another $80 on fluid (or whatever).



Mine took 500mL plus a single pump from my bottle pump. If I had not opened the second bottle I could have returned it.

The change in 7/2011 is that BMW went from a 75w90 to a 75w85 to boost mileage by like 0.1% lol. People are probably reporting that the G2 is extra chewed up because it's just a thinner fluid. It's a 75W85 GL-5 oil, so the Red Line GL-5 is actually a valid replacement.

The rear diff is G1, which is just a GL-4 oil. They probably went GL-4 because there weren't many yellow metal safe oils at the time, but these days 99% of modern Gl-5 oils are safe for yellow metals (in fact, some corrode LESS than Gl-4).

The 7/2011 change actually PERFECTLY lines up with the political happenings of the day:

"On July 29, 2011, President Obama announced an agreement with thirteen large automakers to increase fuel economy to 54.5 miles per gallon for cars and light-duty trucks by model year 2025. He was joined by Ford, GM, Chrysler, BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Jaguar/Land Rover, Kia, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Toyota, and Volvo—which together account for over 90% of all vehicles sold in the United States—as well as the United Auto Workers (UAW), and the State of California, who were all participants in the deal"

[David_Vasha]

Originally Posted by Unspec

The change in 7/2011 is that BMW went from a 75w90 to a 75w85 to boost mileage by like 0.1% lol. People are probably reporting that the G2 is extra chewed up because it's just a thinner fluid. It's a 75W85 GL-5 oil, so the Red Line GL-5 is actually a valid replacement.

The rear diff is G1, which is just a GL-4 oil. They probably went GL-4 because there weren't many yellow metal safe oils at the time, but these days 99% of modern Gl-5 oils are safe for yellow metals (in fact, some corrode LESS than Gl-4).

The 7/2011 change actually PERFECTLY lines up with the political happenings of the day:

"On July 29, 2011, President Obama announced an agreement with thirteen large automakers to increase fuel economy to 54.5 miles per gallon for cars and light-duty trucks by model year 2025. He was joined by Ford, GM, Chrysler, BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Jaguar/Land Rover, Kia, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Toyota, and Volvo—which together account for over 90% of all vehicles sold in the United States—as well as the United Auto Workers (UAW), and the State of California, who were all participants in the deal"

What oil are you going to use in the rear diff? Probably going to get this done this week

[Unspec]

Originally Posted by David_Vasha

What oil are you going to use in the rear diff? Probably going to get this done this week

Red Line 75W-85 GL-5 gear oil. Same as front diff. Red Line states that it is for hypoid gears, so I feel safe in using it.

Some suggest the MT-85 GL-4 oil made by Red Line, but Red Line has specifically stated that it is NOT for hypoid gears.

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by Unspec

The change in 7/2011 is that BMW went from a 75w90 to a 75w85 to boost mileage by like 0.1% lol. People are probably reporting that the G2 is extra chewed up because it's just a thinner fluid. It's a 75W85 GL-5 oil, so the Red Line GL-5 is actually a valid replacement.

The rear diff is G1, which is just a GL-4 oil. They probably went GL-4 because there weren't many yellow metal safe oils at the time, but these days 99% of modern Gl-5 oils are safe for yellow metals (in fact, some corrode LESS than Gl-4).

Not saying you're wrong (at all) - but why does it seem like only the front was revised for 7/2011? Although I'm looking around again (trying to get RealOEM to show me rear fluids recommended before/after 7/2011) they may have updated it but still not to G2. If front and rear are 'the same', as you assert, why aren't they just "the same" after 7/2011 and both G2? Bimmercat tells me rear was OSP pre-7/2011 and G1 post-7/2011. Bimmercat says front was OSP pre-7/2011 and G2 post-7/2011.

[ Actually, that's the first that any of the parts systems said OSP was acceptable at any point in time in front and rear. I don't think it said that last year when I looked everywhere looking for answers. The fact that bimmercat shows OSP in use in front and rear pre-7/2011 would have been nice to see last year ]

Thanks for your post!

EDIT: it doesn't cover front diffs and G2, but the write up at https://www.bimmerworld.com/About-Us...ferential-Oil/ is a nice break down, assuming it is technically accurate.

[Unspec]

Originally Posted by Surly73

Not saying you're wrong (at all) - but why does it seem like only the front was revised for 7/2011? Although I'm looking around again (trying to get RealOEM to show me rear fluids recommended before/after 7/2011) they may have updated it but still not to G2. If front and rear are 'the same', as you assert, why aren't they just "the same" after 7/2011 and both G2? Bimmercat tells me rear was OSP pre-7/2011 and G1 post-7/2011. Bimmercat says front was OSP pre-7/2011 and G2 post-7/2011.

[ Actually, that's the first that any of the parts systems said OSP was acceptable at any point in time in front and rear. I don't think it said that last year when I looked everywhere looking for answers. The fact that bimmercat shows OSP in use in front and rear pre-7/2011 would have been nice to see last year ]

Thanks for your post!

EDIT: it doesn't cover front diffs and G2, but the write up at https://www.bimmerworld.com/About-Us...ferential-Oil/ is a nice break down, assuming it is technically accurate.

After 7/2011, BMW went from SAF-XO in rear to G1 in rear. Pre-7/2011 is SAF-XO, post 7/2011 is G1. G1 is a GL-4 gear oil. BMW most likely specified G1 because they didn't want to risk corrosion on any yellow metals/aluminum, but modern aftermarket G1 oils have enough inhibitors to not be an issue.

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by Unspec

After 7/2011, BMW went from SAF-XO in rear to G1 in rear. Pre-7/2011 is SAF-XO, post 7/2011 is G1. G1 is a GL-4 gear oil. BMW most likely specified G1 because they didn't want to risk corrosion on any yellow metals/aluminum, but modern aftermarket G1 oils have enough inhibitors to not be an issue.

But why not G1 in both, or G2 in both, was my point...

I can easily believe that they changed fluid spec for the reasons of fuel economy instead of mechanical longevity. But, in the midst of a discussion about what the right fluid is, with the contention that you can use all kinds of "standard" fluids, why didn't they switch both front and rear recommendations to the same fluid? Why is the fluid used in the rear explicitly NOT recommended for the front (as opposed to "acceptable but not preferred")?

Do you happen to have any other specs on what "Synthetik OSP" is equivalent to?

[Unspec]

Originally Posted by Surly73

But why not G1 in both, or G2 in both, was my point...

I can easily believe that they changed fluid spec for the reasons of fuel economy instead of mechanical longevity. But, in the midst of a discussion about what the right fluid is, with the contention that you can use all kinds of "standard" fluids, why didn't they switch both front and rear recommendations to the same fluid? Why is the fluid used in the rear explicitly NOT recommended for the front (as opposed to "acceptable but not preferred")?

Do you happen to have any other specs on what "Synthetik OSP" is equivalent to?

Not sure what Synthetik OSP is equivalent to. BMW likely called for different ones in front and rear because GL-5 has more EP additives. Maybe rear gets less stress than rear, or less heat? I'm not sure, but GL-5 actually protects better than GL-4, assuming you have the correct corrosion inhibitors.