[sickwithit]

11 months ago, I got a set of Avant Garde m510s for my F10 535i in gun metal and so far only the front passenger wheel is absent issues. Just to catalog some of the incidents

2x bent the front diver side rim
small crack on rear driver side rim
bent and have a small crack on rear passenger side rim

Now, the sad part is that I'm actually a pretty careful driver and as a father or two, I hardly ever have the time or the desire to go racing or even drive aggressively. I may have hit the occasional pot hole or two but it wouldn't have been at any significant speed and I live in an area where the roads are for the most part well maintained.

Up until two weeks ago, all my issues have been with that front driver side rim which was bent again after fixing it the first time (I guess it keeps getting softer every time it gets fixed). Well, two weeks ago I decided to replace all my RFTs with regular tires and during the swap, the guy told me that both the rear wheels had hairline fractures and they were not leaking most likely because the thick and hard walls of the RFTs were keeping them sealed. But with regular tires on, it was clear that there was a leak and I couldn't use the rims without getting the cracks fixed.

I took it to the guy who had handled the other two incidents and God Bless his heart, the guy pulls me aside and says...look, I'm going to charge you $125 apiece for these cracks but you're probably going to be back here soon. Your wheels are soft like butter. You should go back to stock or get new wheels. Now, this guys doesn't sell wheels so it's not like he was trying to upsell me. He could see I was frustrated and he just didn't want me to keep going back to him with these soft as hell rims.

To make the long story short, I'm never buying another set of Avant Garde rims until I see evidence that these rims can last for over a year under normal use and tear. The weight of the rims is not an important factor to me because I don't care too much about speed. Price is an important factor because I don't want to pay $2000+ for rims that, for all I know, may be gone in a year. With these things in mind, do you guys have any recommendations on what brand may be STRONGER than Avante Garde rims but priced about the same or preferably even less? Ideally, I want something similar to the m510s that comes in gunmetal/graphite. Thanks.

Here are some of the brands I'm considering.

Forgestar
TSW
VMR
Niche

[sickwithit]

Ok, so far, the top option I have is the Niche Targa m129 in anthracite. A set of 4 go for as low as $900 and they are heavier but like I said I'm not concerned about that and that may even be a plus. The rims guy did mention that one of the disadvantages with the lighter rims (especially pressure cast) was that they won't be as strong as the heavier rims.

[Dan1416]

Originally Posted by sickwithit

Ok, so far, the top option I have is the Niche Targa m129 in anthracite. A set of 4 go for as low as $900 and they are heavier but like I said I'm not concerned about that and that may even be a plus. The rims guy did mention that one of the disadvantages with the lighter rims (especially pressure cast) was that they won't be as strong as the heavier rims.

I have niche Essen and love them. I've had them on since may in the north east and they have held up amazing! I would buy Niche again for sure!

[sickwithit]

Originally Posted by Dan1416

I have niche Essen and love them. I've had them on since may in the north east and they have held up amazing! I would buy Niche again for sure!

That's only a few months but still encouraging to hear that because my first incident with the Avant Gardes was literally two months in.

[Dan1416]

Originally Posted by sickwithit

That's only a few months but still encouraging to hear that because my first incident with the Avant Gardes was literally two months in.

Few months in north Jersey is like 2 years in Cali. Our roads suck. Trust me you'll be fine lol

[sickwithit]

^^ Good point.

[RED99HT]

I would recommend a set of high quality flow forged wheels. Its a step up from cast wheels as the barrels are basically forged. That where wheels bend and crack the most. I have a set of the HRE FF01's and love them. They are 3K a set but you can get a great set from Forgestar, BBS, OZ has a nice new style on Tire Rack, and TSW makes several styles. Spend a couple more $ because you will find yourself in the same camp with a cheap set of wheels. BTW, what size wheels are you looking at? If its 19" plus I would do no less than Flow Forged wheels. Here are mine
http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1007009

[sickwithit]

Originally Posted by RED99HT

I would recommend a set of high quality flow forged wheels. Its a step up from cast wheels as the barrels are basically forged. That where wheels bend and crack the most. I have a set of the HRE FF01's and love them. They are 3K a set but you can get a great set from Forgestar, BBS, OZ has a nice new style on Tire Rack, and TSW makes several styles. Spend a couple more $ because you will find yourself in the same camp with a cheap set of wheels. BTW, what size wheels are you looking at? If its 19" plus I would do no less than Flow Forged wheels. Here are mine
http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1007009

Thanks for the suggestion. I looked some of those up and except for the Forgestar they all seem to be way out of my budget. Even the Forgestar is pushing it so I have to think about how badly I want these wheels. If I can get the niche set for <$900, that means I can get two complete sets for the price of one Forgestar set.

[sickwithit]

So I'm now looking at RS51. a flow forged wheel by Renn Motorsport. These are purportedly better quality wheels because they're flow forged unlike the Targas and the AV m510s that are pressure cast. I've just never heard of this brand so I'm not really sure how reliable their products are. Any thoughts?

http://www.slraceshop.com/products/r...rt-rs51-wheels

[f10inSD]

I have a set of Avant Garde M368... I posted a thread of how much I think these rims suck. I firmly believe the rims are soft.

I would go with the Essen.. I actually was considering getting rid of my AV and using the same tires on a new set of Niche Essen.

[sickwithit]

That's encouraging. That's two votes for Niche. I'm assuming a vote for the Essen is a vote for the Targa.

[Cquilichini]

I've had two sets of BBS Wheels in two different BMW's. I got my first set of CH's after breaking a replica set of CSL's.

BBS makes OEM for a LOT of car Manufacturers, the rest of the Wheels Brands don't have the benefit of saying the same. BBS even makes OEM wheels for Ferrari.

Just my 2 cents.

Good lock.

I just got myself a new set BBS CH-R's..., a good choice for the F10 IMHO.

[VMRWheels]

If you're looking into Flow-Formed wheels, be sure to check out our VMR V810





To clarify on a previous comment... flow-forming/forging does not necessarily correlate with "strength', but rather weight-savings. Generally speaking, flow-forming/forging etc. is a process that allows for the use of less material while RETAINING the same strength of a wheel that would typically weigh more (cast etc).

All things considered, not all cast/flow-form/forged wheels are created equal. Ultimately, it comes down to wheel design and manufacturing quality

[HXS]

Anyone tried the TSW Nurburgring? They're rotary forged, which I believe means lighter and stronger than cast...

[MELLOWYELLOW06]

Ive had good luck with my MRR wheels.

[RED99HT]

This is the description of Flowform wheels off HRE website

WHAT IS FLOWFORM?
Our FlowForm wheels are created using a unique casting and forming process that obtains strengths and weights similar to a forged wheel.

The process begins by pouring molten aluminum into a mold face-side-down followed by rapid cooling. By doing this, the aluminum alloy is condensed and in turn enhances the elastic strength and durability.

After the wheel is formed [a] it is pulled from the mold and placed into the flow forming tooling [b] which is similar to the concept of a potters’ wheel. This process stretches the barrel to a defined profile and thickness, ultimately giving the wheel its final shape [c]. This “stretching” improves the grain structure of the aluminum making it stronger, lighter and more precise than a non-flow formed barrel resulting in forged aluminum-like strength.

[sickwithit]

So HRE is saying the flowform wheels are stronger than the even heavier cast wheels but VMR is saying not necessarily. Which one is it?

For the record, I think VMR is onto something because my local rim expert was telling me just a few days ago that there is a direct correlation between rim weight and strength. This lends credence to the proposition that a lighter wheel will need to be made up of this fortified aluminium to match the strength of the heavier wheel which is made of just regular aluminium.

[Bobby_Drake]

Originally Posted by HXS

Anyone tried the TSW Nurburgring? They're rotary forged, which I believe means lighter and stronger than cast...

I have it on my F10 for over 2 years now...Holding up well with daily driving in San Diego, including all the nasty pot holes downtown. Haven't bent any rims yet.

[twelve535i]

If you have a stock wheel that is low pressure cast and weights 30lb, it will not be as strong as a wheel that is forged or rotary/flow from forged that weighs 30lbs.

Since the forging processes make the wheels stronger, most aftermarket companies reduce the weight of the wheels claiming them to be "just as strong or stronger" as OEM wheels. It allows the weight to be reduced to 22-25lbs.

[deepat04]

Surprised to hear about the AG wheels, have you communicated your troubles with Avant Garde, maybe you received a defective set?

[mtl430]

Yeah I am curious also considering I have a set of bespoke on order that will be done in about 2 weeks.

[HXS]

Originally Posted by Bobby_Drake

I have it on my F10 for over 2 years now...Holding up well with daily driving in San Diego, including all the nasty pot holes downtown. Haven't bent any rims yet.

Thanks for the input! Where did you buy yours from?