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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum Autocar slags F10 ride without VDC
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      04-05-2010, 10:59 PM   #23
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I think Autocar is consistently anti-BMW.
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      04-05-2010, 11:02 PM   #24
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      04-06-2010, 12:45 AM   #25
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      04-06-2010, 01:10 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemerup View Post
TO Laguna Dallas. I'm absolutely baffled that you thought the ride was to harsh and you traded in your car because of that. I have absolutely NO regrets about my 335 sport w/ 18 RFT's. It's not harsh...it's a freeking sports car. You should know driving what you have in your garage. BUT...this just proves again to me that you can't just go on what others say. It is IMPERATIVE to test drive these cars prior to making such a commitment. I don't think your wrong Lagunadallas...just that we differ on what we find to be a harsh vs comfortable ride. Crazy. enjoy your toys!!!!
To your point, I am amazed that so many people are buying (or ordering) the car sight unseen. It's one thing to buy something on impulse and quite another to plunk down $60k on an unknown car that will surely depreciate as soon as it's driven off the dealer's lot.

I may be old fashioned, but I have little faith in all the weight-inducing gimmicky electronics. I may be proven wrong (like I was about the DCT), but I will reserve my judgement until I have a chance to take one out for a long test drive (my CA's better earn his commission! ).
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      04-09-2010, 03:41 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carl_d View Post
Yeah, its all a bit confusing...

Seems I cannot have VDC without Adaptive Drive on a 535i SE urgh.

I'm not to upset about firm ride of RFTs but I'm very concerned about the rolly-polly turn in Autocar talk of below. I'm going wait for M-Sport but I rather wanted a 535i M-Sport with VDC and no Adaptive Drive nonsence. Will have to wait for M-Sport specs.

From Autocar

First, we’d avoid choosing anything larger than the 18-inch wheels of our test car. Smaller wheels are standard and, if you can bear their appearance, will be better still at providing a truly isolated ride. As it is, the 18-inchers mated to the standard (passive and non-adjustable) suspension of our test car let sharper road imperfections affect the cabin in a way that a Mercedes E-class on 17s does not.

Adaptive dampers are optional on all models. With them fitted, small ripples are far better dealt with. Brake, turn (even modestly) and introduce a broken surface into the equation and this test 5-series fails to prevent noisy thumps with the same aplomb as an adaptively suspended car (even on 19in wheels) or an E-class. We understand a revision is planned.

BMW claims that the 5-series is the most overtly sporting car in this class, and while it does hold an agility advantage over the E-class, it lacks the centre-pivoted, fleet-footed feel of the Jaguar XF.

In this SE spec and without the active chassis, it also rolls more and has looser body control – surprisingly so for anyone coming from the old model. The BMW’s electrically assisted power steering is fine in its own regard (avoid the artificial-feeling Active Steer), but lacks the XF’s fluidity.
Autocar criticizes body roll of the f10, but say the adaptive drive is a matter of preference? I take it that the roll bars mentioned below refer to the adaptive drive. They recommend the VDC/dynamic dampers.

"... Every car on the international launch had all of these systems fitted. The RHD 530d tested here has none. In the magazine version of this road test we try an active car back-to-back with the passive car, and recommend which systems are worth going for.

Unfortunately the online format doesn’t give us such flexibility, but in short – go for the dampers, avoid the steering, and the roll-bars are a matter of preference.

Hope this clears things up."

http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/still...-the-same.aspx This sure is not clearing up the matter.
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      04-09-2010, 04:09 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
Autocar criticizes body roll of the f10, but say the adaptive drive is a matter of preference? I take it that the roll bars mentioned below refer to the adaptive drive. They recommend the VDC/dynamic dampers.

"... Every car on the international launch had all of these systems fitted. The RHD 530d tested here has none. In the magazine version of this road test we try an active car back-to-back with the passive car, and recommend which systems are worth going for.

Unfortunately the online format doesn’t give us such flexibility, but in short – go for the dampers, avoid the steering, and the roll-bars are a matter of preference.

Hope this clears things up."

http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/still...-the-same.aspx This sure is not clearing up the matter.
Wait for M-Sport! Checking on German web configurator, it seems the M-Sport suspension is not compatible with the other chassis trickery! See other post here ... http://f10.5post.com/forums/showpost...1&postcount=35
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      04-09-2010, 04:44 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carl_d View Post
Wait for M-Sport! Checking on German web configurator, it seems the M-Sport suspension is not compatible with the other chassis trickery! See other post here ... http://f10.5post.com/forums/showpost...1&postcount=35
I would if not for my wife intending to drive the f10 at times, and she wouldn't be keen on the firm ride
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      04-09-2010, 06:40 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
I would if not for my wife intending to drive the f10 at times, and she wouldn't be keen on the firm ride
Give her a cushion to sit on
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      04-09-2010, 07:11 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carl_d View Post
Give her a cushion to sit on
yah, good idea maybe 2 cushions
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      04-09-2010, 03:28 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carl_d View Post
I'm going to wait for M-Sport hopefully by then the "fix" for the suspension will be sorted.
@carl_d: Have you read about this 'fix''? I can't find any information about this one.


@Autocar UK :
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      04-09-2010, 03:48 PM   #33
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NEWS FLASH

Autoweek (Dutch) has tested the 523i with standard suspension ... no adds whatsoever.

IT IS GREAT !!!!!!

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=372793
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      04-09-2010, 04:05 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erasmus View Post
NEWS FLASH

Autoweek (Dutch) has tested the 523i with standard suspension ... no adds whatsoever.

IT IS GREAT !!!!!!

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=372793
That is good news

(not sure we can trust Autocar)
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Last edited by carl_d; 04-09-2010 at 04:18 PM..
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      04-09-2010, 04:10 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erasmus View Post
@carl_d: Have you read about this 'fix''? I can't find any information about this one.


@Autocar UK :
Autocar mention this in the printed magazine and online and I quoted above in this thread.

I asked BMW UK to confirm a date for such a fix and they said "We have not yet received information on any revised/fixed suspension for non-VDC cars" which, I think, is code for yes there is a fix coming!
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Last edited by carl_d; 04-09-2010 at 04:19 PM..
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      04-09-2010, 04:37 PM   #36
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@carl_d: strange, autoweek was very, very positive as in absolutely no negative points whatsoever on the suspension. I know those roads in the movie (near the Dutch dunes / beach Ijmuiden area), and they are not comfortable at all .. Great news ... Maybe the 'fix' is just for the UK market in respons to the ridiculous Autocar test. In the Netherlands I've heard no such thing (a "fix") ... greetz
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      04-11-2010, 05:30 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erasmus View Post
@carl_d: strange, autoweek was very, very positive as in absolutely no negative points whatsoever on the suspension. I know those roads in the movie (near the Dutch dunes / beach Ijmuiden area), and they are not comfortable at all .. Great news ... Maybe the 'fix' is just for the UK market in respons to the ridiculous Autocar test. In the Netherlands I've heard no such thing (a "fix") ... greetz
Seems Autocar whipping up non-issues to sell more magazines
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Last edited by carl_d; 04-12-2010 at 03:52 AM..
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      04-11-2010, 10:27 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Hood View Post
I tested a F10 530d with all the electronic damping stuff + active steering + 331 19 "alloys. Nice smooth ride and in sport it still feels like a Citroen C6 compared to my E90 M3 also equipped with EDC in soft mode

I love and I 'm used to a firm ride(with a 120d/330i/335i equipped with M Technik and 17"/18"RFT's) for the past 5 years or so, hence M3 is a bumpy car....

I know a 5 series is more about comfort than sports, but I opted for the somewhat firmer and 1 cm lowered (code 704) OEM M Technik suspension + 19" 331s and my dealer told me today M Technik is not compatible with the electronic damping stuff so I stick with M Technik.

Cheers
Robin(who is making an appointment with his dentist right now LOL)
Would you say that the f10 gives a firmer ride without the VDC/dynamic dampers?
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      04-14-2010, 03:51 PM   #39
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I've test driven two F10s 'back to back' and have to say the Autocar comments, so far, are making some sense. The standard car on 18" wheels is flawed. Based on the first test drive I wouldn't be ordering an F11 touring, as the run-flat tyres have too much influence on the steering and vibration back to the steering wheel, broken surfaces make the car fight for line and spoil the composure. Some weird sensations come back through the car on some surfaces. Cause a numbness and vague feel to the steering.

The second car had Dynamic Drive and was on 19" wheels, the car was much more composed even on the normal setting, steering more meaty and when switched to sport, the car was even more composed and settled. On poor or broken surfaces and twisty roads, the car was so much better than the standard car. No strange feedback or vagueness in the steering, even on normal setting.

The next test car will have the whole Adaptive Drive package, as I need the car to drive with more poise on poor road surfaces, but sporty when on some decent roads. So very interested to see how VDC works with the active roll bars.

To me, the run-flat shod wheels are still the issue here, and I'm to be convinced which size will work better on these cars, 18" don't work, IMO, the frequencies they generate, feed back in conflict with the suspension. Same as in the 3-series cars.

I'm surprised the 19" wheels work better than 18". The dealer has tried 20" wheels and they completely spoil the ride, I'm informed.


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      04-14-2010, 11:08 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
The second car had Dynamic Drive and was on 19" wheels, the car was much more composed even on the normal setting, steering more meaty and when switched to sport, the car was even more composed and settled. On poor or broken surfaces and twisty roads, the car was so much better than the standard car. No strange feedback or vagueness in the steering, even on normal setting.
Your reference to "Dynamic Drive", do you mean this f10 had the normal/sport toggle button with no VDC and no active anti-roll bars?
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      04-15-2010, 03:29 AM   #41
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Funny, there are now three threads running with the same topic ....

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthre...=369498&page=3
http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthre...=367571&page=3

and this one ....
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      04-15-2010, 04:58 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
I've test driven two F10s 'back to back' and have to say the Autocar comments, so far, are making some sense. The standard car on 18" wheels is flawed. Based on the first test drive I wouldn't be ordering an F11 touring, as the run-flat tyres have too much influence on the steering and vibration back to the steering wheel, broken surfaces make the car fight for line and spoil the composure. Some weird sensations come back through the car on some surfaces. Cause a numbness and vague feel to the steering.

The second car had Dynamic Drive and was on 19" wheels, the car was much more composed even on the normal setting, steering more meaty and when switched to sport, the car was even more composed and settled. On poor or broken surfaces and twisty roads, the car was so much better than the standard car. No strange feedback or vagueness in the steering, even on normal setting.

The next test car will have the whole Adaptive Drive package, as I need the car to drive with more poise on poor road surfaces, but sporty when on some decent roads. So very interested to see how VDC works with the active roll bars.

To me, the run-flat shod wheels are still the issue here, and I'm to be convinced which size will work better on these cars, 18" don't work, IMO, the frequencies they generate, feed back in conflict with the suspension. Same as in the 3-series cars.

I'm surprised the 19" wheels work better than 18". The dealer has tried 20" wheels and they completely spoil the ride, I'm informed.


HighlandPete
Pete, thank you for this. I get these issues in my E90 M-Sport but I have to say it's often because the tyre pressures are slightly low! RFT's do not like being under inflated even a tiny amount. May be worth a check? I've been running with 0.1 BAR above spec to no ill effect with improvements

Back to F10, seems the standard suspension is best suited to non-RFT on 17" wheels? I understand all 17" wheels have non-RFTs?

BTW, VDC has been tuned for 18" RFT's and other wheel/tyres combinations will be a compromise!

What I find interesting is that the M-Sport suspension (listed on bmw.de but not on the bmw.co.uk configurator) cannot be selected with any trick chassis option. The M-Sport set-up will likely also be tuned for 18" RFT wheels - this I hope will be the better sporting option for the UK without going to the extra cost of the extra chassis tricks. Wish BMW UK would stop messing around and release all the options so we can find the best one.
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      04-15-2010, 06:05 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
Your reference to "Dynamic Drive", do you mean this f10 had the normal/sport toggle button with no VDC and no active anti-roll bars?
This is where the confusion comes in. The car didn't have VDC, (no comfort setting), but changing from normal to sport completely changed the chassis control, the car didn't pitch and roll the same over the poor surfaces, as it did in normal setting. it wasn't just me as the driver who could feel the changes, my wife could as passenger.

We looked in I-drive and there were 3 setting levels. The one selected was the botton of the list, definitely had 'chassis' in the definition. I can't remember the exact list, but one was 'steering' on its own I believe.

I was of the understanding it had more than just tightening up throttle response and steering, by the way the car was responding. But the pricing list doesn't seperate Dynamic Drive (the roll bar bit), from the VDC package. You can buy VDC on its own, but the Adaptive Drive package has both.

Anyone know what is on that I-drive "Drive Dynamic Control" configuration?

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      04-15-2010, 06:25 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
But the pricing list doesn't seperate Dynamic Drive (the roll bar bit), from the VDC package. You can buy VDC on its own, but the Adaptive Drive package has both.


HighlandPete
VDC on its own, only on smaller engine options, such as 520d/525d/523i/528i and 530d/535i/550i must have both (according to bmw.co.uk).

Pete what engine options were you test drving?
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