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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum Car&Driver August 2010 issue
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      07-15-2010, 12:36 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
The most robust mode is Sport+ but it reduces the gas mileage too much.
Why would you say the F10 535i you test drove handled better than your F10 550i? http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=390376

Are you certain that the iDrive has adjusted the chassis and drivetrain to its sportiest?
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      07-15-2010, 03:09 PM   #68
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The Autobahn is a great test ground for the F10 at high speed. Strengths and weaknesses of any car are magnified at high speed. I drove it for about 5 hours up to 100 mph.

I am positive that I had it set to Sport+. The 550 V8 has enormous horsepower and that is cool. However my gas mileage is not good. !9.8 mpg on the highway vs. 24 mpg with my 2008 550i M-Sport. That is comparing similar average mph but I was not scientific. In light of that for most people the 535 is fine IMO. A lighter car would perform very, very slightly better. As with anything it is best to test drive the car configured in a manner that you are considering.

You need to consider my situation coming from the 2008 550i M-Sport and the Sport Package on my other previous BMW's. Undoubtedly that contributes to my perceptions. The F10 is a fine car, but it is a different animal from prior iterations. It is has many wonderful aspects but the Sport Aspect of the car is not its strength in my opinion. Again that is just my opinion and I really admire BMW and its products in general. Electronics in automobiles are here to stay, however electronics is just one tool to better cars. It is an an end to a means and not the end in itself. Adding gee wiz electronics do not always yield better handling and sportiness. Hopefully BMW will adjust the electronics to better improve the handling concerns that I and others expressed. Also hopefully the M-Sport suspension will address the Sportiness concerns for those that desire that quality in a BMW Sport Sedan.
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      07-15-2010, 10:32 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
The Autobahn is a great test ground for the F10 at high speed. Strengths and weaknesses of any car are magnified at high speed. I drove it for about 5 hours up to 100 mph.

I am positive that I had it set to Sport+.
Thanks for the info. I am certain that you have given accurate views of the F10. You bought the F10 and although initially disagreed with Car & Driver, subsequently concurred as regards its steering. Sorry if I am asking the same point: my question is not whether the toggle button is on sport/sport+ mode but whether the iDrive has been utilised to adjust the chassis and drivetrain to its sportiest level.

Last edited by bm323; 07-15-2010 at 11:04 PM..
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      07-16-2010, 12:43 AM   #70
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The sportiest level is Sport+. Those settings cannot be changed by the user. Sport has the capability to be changed in the I-Drive. You can change the drive train or chassis in a simplistic way. Other modes are not user adjustable.
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      07-16-2010, 01:46 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
The sportiest level is Sport+. Those settings cannot be changed by the user. Sport has the capability to be changed in the I-Drive. You can change the drive train or chassis in a simplistic way. Other modes are not user adjustable.
Yes, I understand, but sport+ may not be the sportiest ... depending, as the car is not at its stablest. How is the F10 on the autobahn with toggle on sport with iDrive adjusted to the sportiest mode, compared to toggle on sport+?

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      07-16-2010, 04:04 AM   #72
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Are we talking 'Autobahnspeeds' at 100mph?

Anyway....
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      07-16-2010, 08:25 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Hood View Post
Are we talking 'Autobahnspeeds' at 100mph?

Anyway....
In the break-in period, one is not supposed to go over 100 mph. I comply with that. Still that is faster than we can legally drive in the US.
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      07-16-2010, 10:34 AM   #74
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^Fair enough, but 100mph equals 2600rpm (more or less) in 8th gear in my 'lesser'535i. So that's about idling
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      07-23-2010, 06:46 PM   #75
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Interesting to see the distribution of points for the three cars

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...0ed856746b.pdf anyone knows what's the "features/amenities" where the F10 scored 5/10 and the other two scored 10/10? The steering feel scored 7/10 and the other two 9/10, handling 8/10 and the other two 9 and 10, and fun to drive 18/25 and the other two 19 and 21.

As taken from http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests

with its video as pointed out by gatoman39 http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...niti_m37-video looks like 3 different drivers?
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      07-23-2010, 07:43 PM   #76
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I tested a 535 non-sport and a 550 sport. Are you sure the 535 in the article was with sport package? I looked and didn't see the equipment list.

The 535 non-sport was the most uninspired car I've ever driven. I'd take a Honda Accord over the 535 non-sport. I was ready to write off the F10 from my shoping list. With that comment, the prick sales guy finally pulled out the 550 sport I'd asked to drive in the first place. What a difference. My order will be going in for November build!
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      07-23-2010, 07:46 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Hood View Post
^Fair enough, but 100mph equals 2600rpm (more or less) in 8th gear in my 'lesser'535i. So that's about idling
It's not just about RPM. Load on the engine is different at 30 mph and 2600 rpm than at 100mph and 2600 rpm. It's the sustained increased loads you're trying to avoid during break-in.
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      07-23-2010, 09:08 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboFan View Post
I tested a 535 non-sport and a 550 sport. Are you sure the 535 in the article was with sport package? I looked and didn't see the equipment list.

The 535 non-sport was the most uninspired car I've ever driven. I'd take a Honda Accord over the 535 non-sport. I was ready to write off the F10 from my shoping list. With that comment, the prick sales guy finally pulled out the 550 sport I'd asked to drive in the first place. What a difference. My order will be going in for November build!
I take it that you mean dynamic handling package ie with adaptive drive. (You may wish to check your order). From the video, it has the toggle button, sport and sport+. Not clear whether it has adaptive drive, but likely.
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      07-24-2010, 06:51 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
Yes, I understand, but sport+ may not be the sportiest ... depending, as the car is not at its stablest. How is the F10 on the autobahn with toggle on sport with iDrive adjusted to the sportiest mode, compared to toggle on sport+?
Sport Mode can be customized. You can dumb down the drivetrain or chassis or both from regular Sport Mode.
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      07-24-2010, 12:41 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerGuyFL View Post
Well they basically blasted the new 535i for the too light steering and numb on center feel when driving the car. These are the same thought when I test drove the 535i & 550i twice. They also stated that the new platform is too heavy since it's based from the 7-series platform. A lot is blamed from switching the steering system to an Electric power assist which doesn't give too much feed back.
+1. I test drove both the 550 and 535 the other day at the Ultimate Driving Event. I was unimpressed by the feel of the car compared with the last generation. Steering indeed felt numb and the car was heavy. I swear I felt more body roll. I even drove the 550 with the sport package. Very comfortable ride with plenty of power and beautiful inside and out. I don't mean to sound like a bmw snob, but it just didn't feel like the driver's car it used to be. They are targeting the freaking Lexus crowd. First it was the X5M and X6M to compete with the Porsche Cayenne and now this.......they must stop This is terrible. I can't blame them as they are indeed in the business to sell cars, but I would like more compromise for people who really appreciate a more connected sporty vehicle. Where are we going to go for our cars if they keep heading this direction?

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      07-24-2010, 02:12 PM   #81
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Wow! This board is populated mostly with enthusiasts - people who always bought BMWs knowing that any model in any trim configuration would handle well and have exquisite steering feel. However, reading this thread makes one believe that the 5er has morphed into a Lexus, an overweight and poorly assembled one to boot. To get the car to handle decently you have to spring for the Dynamic Handling package - sad, very sad. If BMW repeats this debacle with the upcoming F30 they will definitely start forfeiting some of their enthusiast base to other brands.
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      07-24-2010, 02:32 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeTerp View Post
Wow! This board is populated mostly with enthusiasts - people who always bought BMWs knowing that any model in any trim configuration would handle well and have exquisite steering feel. However, reading this thread makes one believe that the 5er has morphed into a Lexus, an overweight and poorly assembled one to boot. To get the car to handle decently you have to spring for the Dynamic Handling package - sad, very sad. If BMW repeats this debacle with the upcoming F30 they will definitely start forfeiting some of their enthusiast base to other brands.
+1. I believe the 550 I drove had the dynamic handling package. It wasn't much of an improvement in my opinion. It's not near as bad as a Lexus at this point but it's definitely becoming more Lexus like.

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      07-24-2010, 07:28 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
Sport Mode can be customized. You can dumb down the drivetrain or chassis or both from regular Sport Mode.
I wonder whether some of the different reviews I've read are due to people driving the F10s with both components dumbed.
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      07-24-2010, 07:35 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeTerp View Post
Wow! This board is populated mostly with enthusiasts - people who always bought BMWs knowing that any model in any trim configuration would handle well and have exquisite steering feel. However, reading this thread makes one believe that the 5er has morphed into a Lexus, an overweight and poorly assembled one to boot.
Should test drive the F10 first There are forummers in other boards who haven't test driven it or may not have adjusted the adaptive drive, but yet are able to make many comments on how the car handles.

I find this board the most intelligent and mature

You can also check out the reviews of auto mags compiled by this board http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343293

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      07-24-2010, 07:36 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erio View Post
+1. I test drove both the 550 and 535 the other day at the Ultimate Driving Event. I was unimpressed by the feel of the car compared with the last generation. Steering indeed felt numb and the car was heavy. I swear I felt more body roll.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erio View Post
+1. I believe the 550 I drove had the dynamic handling package.
I don't recall any car mag reviewer who says the F10 has more body roll and neither did I find the roll substantial (of a base spec F10 without adaptive drive or M sport suspension)

Meaning you are not sure whether it had the dynamic package with adaptive drive? Did it have a comfort mode (which would necessarily mean it had adaptive drive) and was the toggle button in sport mode with the chassis and drivetrain adjusted using the iDrive?

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      07-24-2010, 08:30 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
I don't recall any car mag reviewer who says the F10 has more body roll and neither did I find the roll substantial

Meaning you are not sure whether it had the dynamic package with adaptive drive? Did it have a comfort mode (which would necessarily mean it had adaptive drive) and was the toggle button in sport mode with the chassis and drivetrain adjusted using the iDrive?
Well the body roll I felt was obviously subjective. While I'm not a professional car critic, I have driven and owned many BMWs. That has to count for something. I did drive the 550 in all modes from comfort to the most aggressive sport+.

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      07-25-2010, 07:13 PM   #87
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I had suspicion I wasn't alone in my perception. From autocar:

"In this SE spec and without the active chassis, it also rolls more and has looser body control – surprisingly so for anyone coming from the old model. The BMW’s electrically assisted power steering is fine in its own regard (avoid the artificial-feeling Active Steer), but lacks the XF’s fluidity."

M sport package (not available with active drive) will likely change things when it becomes available in sept/oct.

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      07-25-2010, 07:49 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erio View Post
I had suspicion I wasn't alone in my perception. From autocar:

"In this SE spec and without the active chassis, it also rolls more and has looser body control – surprisingly so for anyone coming from the old model. The BMW’s electrically assisted power steering is fine in its own regard (avoid the artificial-feeling Active Steer), but lacks the XF’s fluidity."

M sport package (not available with active drive) will likely change things when it becomes available in sept/oct.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/...E-Auto/248585/

But you mentioned yours tested was not the basic F10, but with adaptive drive (which includes the anti-roll bars) and this is the only auto mag that mentions more body roll in the base F10? Also from the same article

Quote "It’s important to note that when we make comparisons between the 5-series and its competitors in terms of ride and handling, we are talking about differences you could only measure in nths of degrees, when tested back to back on the same stretch of demanding road or ride-and-handling test track.
Note, too, that the new 5-series is, in general, an excellent car to drive; it is quiet, it is comfortable, it soothes miles away with the same crushing ease with which it approaches going around corners. We would very happily recommend a 5-series to anyone who wants one to drive 50,000 miles a year and occasionally enjoy themselves while they are doing it.
However, to maximise its potential it’s important to optimise the specification, of which the choices are many. And even then, to note that in some areas the 5-series is a touch weaker than its best rivals.
First, we’d avoid choosing anything larger than the 18-inch wheels of our test car. Smaller wheels are standard and, if you can bear their appearance, will be better still at providing a truly isolated ride. As it is, the 18-inchers mated to the standard (passive and non-adjustable) suspension of our test car let sharper road imperfections affect the cabin in a way that a Mercedes E-class on 17s does not.
Adaptive dampers are optional on all models. With them fitted, small ripples are far better dealt with. Brake, turn (even modestly) and introduce a broken surface into the equation and this test 5-series fails to prevent noisy thumps with the same aplomb as an adaptively suspended car (even on 19in wheels) or an E-class. We understand a revision is planned."

Another autocar review http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/...30d-SE/246781/ and there is a previous thread on autocar.

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