Delay in Connected Drive operating

eskdale · 02-19-2012, 07:46 AM

Another issue I have that customer services say that they are not aware of -: is a long delay in all the features that require the SIM in the car to have a connection - My info, BMW online, RTTI traffic info, My Service etc etc.

When I leave home it takes 20 miles / 30 minutes before this will work. I have no coverage at home, but coverage starts 1 mile from home. But even when I reach coverage none of the functions will work until I have done approx 20 miles / 30 minutes which means things like Real Time Traffic Info are pretty useless for my daily trip to the office. Using TomTom live in my previous car this did not have coverage at home either but it would always update its RTTI somewhere between 1 and 3 miles which is what I would expect.

When I leave the office for home then it works straight away and then keeps working until I'm a mile from home so there is definitely coverage in the 19 miles where it doesn't work.

Has anyone any experience of this - perhaps where the car is parked overnight in an underground carpark without mobile coverage or in an area without coverage?

Would be interested to find out if it is a generic issue or only my car

Thanks

eskdale · 03-05-2012, 10:12 AM

UPDATE:-
Dealer phoned today to say they want to try a similar car in the same situation. But they don't have a 5 Series with assist that they can try they will have to get a loan unit from BMW. They insists it must be a 5 series otherwise its not a relevant test. They want to do the test themselves i.e. bring the car to my house leave it over night and come back in the morning to see how it performs (Thats 120 miles plus for them to drive). Now I agree that trying another car is a good thing to do but this is going on and on. I've had the car a month and the RTTI (Traffic info) at the moment is useless because I had done the the first 20+ miles of the 30 to the office before it starts to work, its to late to take an alternative route by then. Why spend Thousands on a BMW with Prof Nav and have to use a TomTom for the traffic! Surely it would be simpler just to loan me a car for the night. I would pick the car up after work and drop it back to them on the way to work - but no.
But they can not even give me a date when they will try another car. Then will have to wait for a diagnosis and then a fix. It will be time to change the car before they get around to fixing it. Useless !!

Does anyone else have any experience of this problem?

BMWrules7 · 03-05-2012, 07:15 PM

I always thought the real time traffic was received through the satellite radio.

eskdale · 03-06-2012, 04:21 AM

Here in the Europe we have RDS-TMC which transmits traffic info over the FM radio, this has limited coverage and does not update regularly. From about Sept 2011 BMW launched their RTTI (Real Time Traffic Information) system which is similar to TomTom Live which updates the traffic every 3 minutes and also covers more roads than the TMC system. This information is received over the car Data that is part of BMW assist.

Problem is for me my car takes just over half an hour before the data connects which means I don't get any of these updates and hence is useless because I'm two thirds of the way to work by the time it starts working and taking an alternative route is then not viable. My TomTom Live works but why pay thousands for a BMW system that doesn't work!! when a £200 TomTom does

E90Fleet · 03-06-2012, 05:46 AM

Good news eskdale.
I think its the only real way to see if its a BMW problem or one with your car(as we discussed in another thread)

Please keep us informed as to what happens.

Sorry its taking so long for it all to happen.

islandnipper · 03-06-2012, 09:16 AM

I'll check on mine when I get the chance (mine's a MY 2012 520d with pro-nav inc RTTI, internet etc).

I'll take it into an area of poor coverage (i.e. most of the south-west coastline of the Isle of Wight!) and experiment with how long RTTI etc takes to recover as I come back into signal again. There's no RTTI-type sensors (as far as I'm aware) on the Island (not really much point!), but there's plenty of nearby mainland info, so will be easy to tell.

May take me a day or two to get over there (have a few chores to do at home first...). I'm interested to see what happens though; I live in an area of good signal, so haven't experienced anything like this either from home, or the old office on the mainland (I retired last week, keeping the four month old company car, so I have time to do the experiment

)

eskdale · 03-06-2012, 09:41 AM

Thanks islandnipper - It's not just the RTTI that doesn't work its all the things that require data such as BMW online and Internet etc. - You can tell if you have connection in many ways but one way is to select "ConnectedDrive" then "Service Status"

You then see two options the first option of "update" is greyed out if you have no data and becomes enabled when there is data.

Typically if you have destination programmed into the SatNav the box in the bottom right of the screen which tells you your estimated arrival time will say RTTI in the box indicating that it is using the RTTI info to calculate the arrival time. If there is no Data mine typically says TMC indicating that it is using the TMC data for the arrival time.

Much appreciated for your help. I don't know how long it has to be out of signal for before it gets into this state. A Strange thing is, if I go to Tesco's for a shop which is only 2 miles from my house when I come out it is working, but I have tried stopping at Tesco's on the way to work even shutting the engine off and locking the car and then starting off again but it does not work then either.

I've been watching your other posts - hope you enjoy your retirement. I'm afraid I am going to have to keep working to the end !!. You live in a nice area as well. I get around the South coast quite a bit as a do a lot of voluntary work doing results for major Windsurfing and Sailing events.

Thanks

islandnipper · 03-06-2012, 10:03 AM

Thanks eskdale.

I realised that other data would be affected, but wasn't too sure how best to tell when normal service resumes; you've given me some useful info.

Very odd about your experiments at Tesco's. I actually know quite a bit about mobile data, from the signal format point of view (I was a radar design engineer, and at one point was experimenting using the broadcasts from phone base stations as "free" distributed transmitters) and am intrigued as to why it takes so long to acquire the data... Definitely something I'd like to get to the bottom of; if nothing else, from a strokey beardy point of view!!

Thanks for the retirement wishes. It's certainly a lovely place to live - We're overlooking the beach in West Cowes, with views across the Solent to the New Forest. Get in a lot of boating as well (less sailing, more workboat for me; I enjoy being able to come and go as I like, without worrying about wind and tides

)

eskdale · 03-06-2012, 10:22 AM

Thanks - It is a strange issue. Although very annoying as well as I bought the car because of all the "Toys" but they don't really work. I did my apprenticeship with the MOD used to work on the good old 965 radar. I'm now a Hardware / Software engineer and have done quite a bit with mobiles and Data - (Put the first barcode tracking system into all the ParcelForce trucks 2000+ all with mobile data). I don't know if it is specific to my vehicle or a design issue. Rather suspect it's a design issue but if it is, why don't other people see the problem. BMW are using T-mobile for the data - so now Orange and T-Mobile have merged how come the Car can't roam onto Orange (There is an orange signal at my house) My Mobile phone roams freely between T-Mobile and Orange.

If the car can't roam this may cause problems for a lot of other users in the future as some of the transmitters are being turned off where there is duplication between orange and T-Mobile.

As for the boating - you can always come and help with the rescue boats if you have some spare time. Nearly all the events I do results for are either Windsurfing or the Olympic classes - course racing.

E90Fleet · 03-06-2012, 11:50 AM

Thanks for helping out islandnipper

islandnipper · 03-06-2012, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eskdale

Thanks - It is a strange issue. Although very annoying as well as I bought the car because of all the "Toys" but they don't really work. I did my apprenticeship with the MOD used to work on the good old 965 radar. I'm now a Hardware / Software engineer and have done quite a bit with mobiles and Data - (Put the first barcode tracking system into all the ParcelForce trucks 2000+ all with mobile data). I don't know if it is specific to my vehicle or a design issue. Rather suspect it's a design issue but if it is, why don't other people see the problem. BMW are using T-mobile for the data - so now Orange and T-Mobile have merged how come the Car can't roam onto Orange (There is an orange signal at my house) My Mobile phone roams freely between T-Mobile and Orange.

If the car can't roam this may cause problems for a lot of other users in the future as some of the transmitters are being turned off where there is duplication between orange and T-Mobile.

As for the boating - you can always come and help with the rescue boats if you have some spare time. Nearly all the events I do results for are either Windsurfing or the Olympic classes - course racing.

Ha, small world isn't it? I was the system authority on 996 radar and moved on to several land and naval radar designs, inc the Sampson radars on the Type 45s and new carriers...

So why can't we work out what's happening here - yet!?

We will have a fair stab at it, that's for sure!

As for the boating, cheers! I'm a volunteer for the Cowes RNLI lifeboat crew (on a pager right now!)... always glad to get involved with local racing organisation if I'm available, but don't actually partake nowadays.

Best wishes for your sailing efforts, sounds very good fun!

So... shall be in touch with the car data findings...

islandnipper · 03-08-2012, 09:13 AM

Right... did the experiment, as per our discussion above, this afternoon.

Used two methods. One a little more "scientific" than the other...

The first involved the procedure mentioned in the posts above, where I tried driving into areas of poor coverage, waiting for the status/RTTI indications to drop out and then go back on a known "good" route to reacquire. Unfortunately, I couldn't tell exactly when the signal was restored because it doesn't necessarily come back into coverage cleanly due to the way it was variably masked by hills etc in the first place.

Anyway, as far as I could tell, the services restored almost immediately (within a minute or two).

It then dawned on me that, if I sat the car on the drive at home, in a known strong signal area, and shielded the antenna with foil and a biscuit tin (the neighbours must have thought I'd gone mad!) I could tell exactly when the signal was there or not and how long recovery took.

This method worked well: I lost services almost immediately upon fitting the shielding - and, importantly for the point of this experiment, regained them in less than a minute when the antenna was uncovered.

So, there you are: as really expected, the data system seems to be designed to reacquire lost services very fast.

Hope that helps...

eskdale · 03-08-2012, 11:41 AM

Hi

Thanks for that - That is interesting - How long did you leave it without signal? I would guess it is something to do with the time that it is without signal that is causing the issue. In my case this is overnight. One possibility is that may be it gives up trying after a certain time to save power. The data device must be powered constantly as you can send it signals to say flash the headlights, may be they shut it down after so many hours of no signal, but you would expect it to start and stay hunting as soon as the ignition is on or the engine running at least.

Presumably you put the biscuit tin over the sharks fin antenna. Which then leads to the question as to why the backup antenna did not take over. The system is fitted with two antenna's which are meant to switch over to the backup antenna if the main antenna fails, such as if it is damaged in an accident the backup antenna will work to notify BMW the car has been involved in an accident.

Really strangely - I got fed up with no traffic info on the way to the office (which I've got used to with TomTom in the Galaxy) that I put the TomTom in the Bimmer. On the 2 days that I've used the TomTom the Bimmer has worked at 2 miles from home. These are the only 2 times this has happened. The Lady of the house tells me its because the Bimmer was jealous!! But I like to think a bit more scientifically I think it must be a coincidence, but I'm going to have to try it again.

Going to try and take some time lapse photography of the screen.

islandnipper · 03-08-2012, 03:13 PM

Hmmm. I wont give an ilconsidered reply... Interesting...

Need to think again. (best wishes, by the way!)

islandnipper · 03-09-2012, 05:00 AM

Ah, just thought! Is the backup antenna on the back ledge of the car, in which case it probably would have been obscured. The sheet of tin foil I used was a 6ftx6ft substantial bit of kit that we used to use for temporary ground planes on portable antennas. I've got loads of them!

I didn't know how much "leakage" there'd be through the roof, so used the whole sheet, secured with a biscuit tin over the sharks fin...

eskdale · 03-09-2012, 06:23 AM

Hi - I think its in the rear bumper - at least that is where it was on an earlier model according to some Google searches. So that could explain why the backup antenna was also screened.

Thanks for your help

eskdale · 03-14-2012, 01:18 PM

As per posting 5th March BMW eventually dropped a car off at my house yesterday and left it overnight and picked it up today. It behaved the same as mine. No connection for 21 Miles. Now they tried to tell me that its OK there is nothing wrong with my car as the other car does the same!! It has worked 3 times out of about 30 in reality, so there is no reason why it shouldn't work, if the design is correct. If the engine cut out every time on a journey would that be OK just because another car did the same. I don't understand their thinking sometimes. Lets hope that they talk to someone sensible at BMW.

islandnipper · 03-14-2012, 02:13 PM

As you say, their logic makes no sense.

It's a pity that there are enough variables to muddy the water for anyone (like most dealers!) that don't really have any appreciation of the technology involved.

I'd be hard pushed to suggest the next stage (including some of our PM chats). I'm convinced that the system works in strong data signal areas: the difficulty is in determining just where those areas are, when the phone sig strength meters do not distinguish between the operator services.

Best of luck in finding a solution and keep in touch!

Nick

eskdale · 03-15-2012, 04:47 AM

Thanks Nick.

I'm struggling to work out what scenario it is that creates this issue. If the car is left for some time a mile away from the house and start the journey from their it works (so its not really a signal strength issue) but when it doesn't work the location where it starts to work is always the same area 21 miles from home, so I assume it is some signal handover that makes it work.

Realistically I don't understand why it doesn't roam onto Orange anyway. T-Mobile and Orange are now the same company (Everything Everywhere). There is Orange coverage at my home and for the full journey to work.

Back to waiting for the dealer to come back to me again. I had a go at the New car Sales Manager last night as this was what BMW customer services sugested. BMW customer services don't seem to have any clout - all they can do is log your complaint and refer you back to the dealer.

Jon

E90Fleet · 03-15-2012, 05:27 AM

Its really sounding like its a anomaly with the cell coverage in your home area.

eskdale · 03-15-2012, 07:41 AM

Not really a simple coverage issue. As a) if it worked with Orange coverage as you would expect it to there is full coverage for the whole journey. b) If it only works with T-Mobile then it should pick up signal after 1 mile. If my £200 TomTom can work Reliably using TomTom Live I would expect the system in a £50,000 + car to work.

eskdale · 03-16-2012, 12:09 PM

Below is the response from the Dealer - Which is total rubbish.

If I park the car 1 mile from home and start the journey there, it works perfectly all the way so how can they argue that it is because of poor signal strength. I also sent them photos of the signal strength taken every 15s where some parts of the journey were even showing max no of bars!!

Connected Drive Delay
As I indicated in our telephone conversations, the test car we received from BMW behaved in exactly the same way as your vehicle. I.e. from an overnight start up, the car takes 21 miles to connect to the BMW online system, thus giving limited accessibility during that section of your commute. After speaking to BMW regarding these findings I can clarify that the system in the vehicle requires a much stronger signal during its initial start up in order to retrieve its required data. Once it has this signal the system works to its full functionality and also as it is not retrieving as much data can therefore hold on to the signal for a much greater length of time. This also explains the situation that occurs during your return commute, whereby the signal is received very quickly and is held until approx 2 miles from your address. As a further test in the BMW car, I parked the car overnight at my property and found that the system connected within a minute, my address is not rural at all and hence this further proves this to be a signal issue rather than a technical fault within the car. It is unfortunate therefore that the signal during your commute to work is not conducive to the data transfer and start up procedure. Obviously this is an outside influence that BMW have no control over, As such I’m afraid from a technical point of view we can go no further in this matter as there is no component on the vehicle suffering from a manufacturing defect and hence we cannot action any repairs or quality enhancements.

02-19-2012, 07:46 AM	#1
eskdale Second Lieutenant 5 Rep 205 Posts Drives: 520d M Sport Touring F11 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Gloucestershire UK iTrader: (0)	Delay in Connected Drive operating Another issue I have that customer services say that they are not aware of -: is a long delay in all the features that require the SIM in the car to have a connection - My info, BMW online, RTTI traffic info, My Service etc etc. When I leave home it takes 20 miles / 30 minutes before this will work. I have no coverage at home, but coverage starts 1 mile from home. But even when I reach coverage none of the functions will work until I have done approx 20 miles / 30 minutes which means things like Real Time Traffic Info are pretty useless for my daily trip to the office. Using TomTom live in my previous car this did not have coverage at home either but it would always update its RTTI somewhere between 1 and 3 miles which is what I would expect. When I leave the office for home then it works straight away and then keeps working until I'm a mile from home so there is definitely coverage in the 19 miles where it doesn't work. Has anyone any experience of this - perhaps where the car is parked overnight in an underground carpark without mobile coverage or in an area without coverage? Would be interested to find out if it is a generic issue or only my car Thanks
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03-05-2012, 10:12 AM	#2
eskdale Second Lieutenant 5 Rep 205 Posts Drives: 520d M Sport Touring F11 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Gloucestershire UK iTrader: (0)	UPDATE:- Dealer phoned today to say they want to try a similar car in the same situation. But they don't have a 5 Series with assist that they can try they will have to get a loan unit from BMW. They insists it must be a 5 series otherwise its not a relevant test. They want to do the test themselves i.e. bring the car to my house leave it over night and come back in the morning to see how it performs (Thats 120 miles plus for them to drive). Now I agree that trying another car is a good thing to do but this is going on and on. I've had the car a month and the RTTI (Traffic info) at the moment is useless because I had done the the first 20+ miles of the 30 to the office before it starts to work, its to late to take an alternative route by then. Why spend Thousands on a BMW with Prof Nav and have to use a TomTom for the traffic! Surely it would be simpler just to loan me a car for the night. I would pick the car up after work and drop it back to them on the way to work - but no. But they can not even give me a date when they will try another car. Then will have to wait for a diagnosis and then a fix. It will be time to change the car before they get around to fixing it. Useless !! Does anyone else have any experience of this problem?
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03-05-2012, 07:15 PM	#3
BMWrules7 Lieutenant Colonel 349 Rep 1,684 Posts Drives: 2015, 740 LdX, Alpine White Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Boston Area iTrader: (0)	I always thought the real time traffic was received through the satellite radio.
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03-06-2012, 04:21 AM	#4
eskdale Second Lieutenant 5 Rep 205 Posts Drives: 520d M Sport Touring F11 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Gloucestershire UK iTrader: (0)	Here in the Europe we have RDS-TMC which transmits traffic info over the FM radio, this has limited coverage and does not update regularly. From about Sept 2011 BMW launched their RTTI (Real Time Traffic Information) system which is similar to TomTom Live which updates the traffic every 3 minutes and also covers more roads than the TMC system. This information is received over the car Data that is part of BMW assist. Problem is for me my car takes just over half an hour before the data connects which means I don't get any of these updates and hence is useless because I'm two thirds of the way to work by the time it starts working and taking an alternative route is then not viable. My TomTom Live works but why pay thousands for a BMW system that doesn't work!! when a £200 TomTom does
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03-06-2012, 05:46 AM	#5
E90Fleet Lieutenant General 1312 Rep 10,185 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Africa iTrader: (0)	Good news eskdale. I think its the only real way to see if its a BMW problem or one with your car(as we discussed in another thread) Please keep us informed as to what happens. Sorry its taking so long for it all to happen. __________________ BMW if you are reading, I need a job, Please.
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03-06-2012, 09:16 AM	#6
islandnipper Private First Class 3 Rep 118 Posts Drives: MY 2012 F10 520d SE Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Isle of Wight, UK iTrader: (0)	I'll check on mine when I get the chance (mine's a MY 2012 520d with pro-nav inc RTTI, internet etc). I'll take it into an area of poor coverage (i.e. most of the south-west coastline of the Isle of Wight!) and experiment with how long RTTI etc takes to recover as I come back into signal again. There's no RTTI-type sensors (as far as I'm aware) on the Island (not really much point!), but there's plenty of nearby mainland info, so will be easy to tell. May take me a day or two to get over there (have a few chores to do at home first...). I'm interested to see what happens though; I live in an area of good signal, so haven't experienced anything like this either from home, or the old office on the mainland (I retired last week, keeping the four month old company car, so I have time to do the experiment )
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03-06-2012, 09:41 AM	#7
eskdale Second Lieutenant 5 Rep 205 Posts Drives: 520d M Sport Touring F11 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Gloucestershire UK iTrader: (0)	Thanks islandnipper - It's not just the RTTI that doesn't work its all the things that require data such as BMW online and Internet etc. - You can tell if you have connection in many ways but one way is to select "ConnectedDrive" then "Service Status" You then see two options the first option of "update" is greyed out if you have no data and becomes enabled when there is data. Typically if you have destination programmed into the SatNav the box in the bottom right of the screen which tells you your estimated arrival time will say RTTI in the box indicating that it is using the RTTI info to calculate the arrival time. If there is no Data mine typically says TMC indicating that it is using the TMC data for the arrival time. Much appreciated for your help. I don't know how long it has to be out of signal for before it gets into this state. A Strange thing is, if I go to Tesco's for a shop which is only 2 miles from my house when I come out it is working, but I have tried stopping at Tesco's on the way to work even shutting the engine off and locking the car and then starting off again but it does not work then either. I've been watching your other posts - hope you enjoy your retirement. I'm afraid I am going to have to keep working to the end !!. You live in a nice area as well. I get around the South coast quite a bit as a do a lot of voluntary work doing results for major Windsurfing and Sailing events. Thanks
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03-06-2012, 10:03 AM	#8
islandnipper Private First Class 3 Rep 118 Posts Drives: MY 2012 F10 520d SE Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Isle of Wight, UK iTrader: (0)	Thanks eskdale. I realised that other data would be affected, but wasn't too sure how best to tell when normal service resumes; you've given me some useful info. Very odd about your experiments at Tesco's. I actually know quite a bit about mobile data, from the signal format point of view (I was a radar design engineer, and at one point was experimenting using the broadcasts from phone base stations as "free" distributed transmitters) and am intrigued as to why it takes so long to acquire the data... Definitely something I'd like to get to the bottom of; if nothing else, from a strokey beardy point of view!! Thanks for the retirement wishes. It's certainly a lovely place to live - We're overlooking the beach in West Cowes, with views across the Solent to the New Forest. Get in a lot of boating as well (less sailing, more workboat for me; I enjoy being able to come and go as I like, without worrying about wind and tides )
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03-06-2012, 10:22 AM	#9
eskdale Second Lieutenant 5 Rep 205 Posts Drives: 520d M Sport Touring F11 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Gloucestershire UK iTrader: (0)	Thanks - It is a strange issue. Although very annoying as well as I bought the car because of all the "Toys" but they don't really work. I did my apprenticeship with the MOD used to work on the good old 965 radar. I'm now a Hardware / Software engineer and have done quite a bit with mobiles and Data - (Put the first barcode tracking system into all the ParcelForce trucks 2000+ all with mobile data). I don't know if it is specific to my vehicle or a design issue. Rather suspect it's a design issue but if it is, why don't other people see the problem. BMW are using T-mobile for the data - so now Orange and T-Mobile have merged how come the Car can't roam onto Orange (There is an orange signal at my house) My Mobile phone roams freely between T-Mobile and Orange. If the car can't roam this may cause problems for a lot of other users in the future as some of the transmitters are being turned off where there is duplication between orange and T-Mobile. As for the boating - you can always come and help with the rescue boats if you have some spare time. Nearly all the events I do results for are either Windsurfing or the Olympic classes - course racing.
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03-06-2012, 11:50 AM	#10
E90Fleet Lieutenant General 1312 Rep 10,185 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Africa iTrader: (0)	Thanks for helping out islandnipper __________________ BMW if you are reading, I need a job, Please.
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03-08-2012, 09:13 AM	#12
islandnipper Private First Class 3 Rep 118 Posts Drives: MY 2012 F10 520d SE Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Isle of Wight, UK iTrader: (0)	Right... did the experiment, as per our discussion above, this afternoon. Used two methods. One a little more "scientific" than the other... The first involved the procedure mentioned in the posts above, where I tried driving into areas of poor coverage, waiting for the status/RTTI indications to drop out and then go back on a known "good" route to reacquire. Unfortunately, I couldn't tell exactly when the signal was restored because it doesn't necessarily come back into coverage cleanly due to the way it was variably masked by hills etc in the first place. Anyway, as far as I could tell, the services restored almost immediately (within a minute or two). It then dawned on me that, if I sat the car on the drive at home, in a known strong signal area, and shielded the antenna with foil and a biscuit tin (the neighbours must have thought I'd gone mad!) I could tell exactly when the signal was there or not and how long recovery took. This method worked well: I lost services almost immediately upon fitting the shielding - and, importantly for the point of this experiment, regained them in less than a minute when the antenna was uncovered. So, there you are: as really expected, the data system seems to be designed to reacquire lost services very fast. Hope that helps...
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03-08-2012, 11:41 AM	#13
eskdale Second Lieutenant 5 Rep 205 Posts Drives: 520d M Sport Touring F11 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Gloucestershire UK iTrader: (0)	Hi Thanks for that - That is interesting - How long did you leave it without signal? I would guess it is something to do with the time that it is without signal that is causing the issue. In my case this is overnight. One possibility is that may be it gives up trying after a certain time to save power. The data device must be powered constantly as you can send it signals to say flash the headlights, may be they shut it down after so many hours of no signal, but you would expect it to start and stay hunting as soon as the ignition is on or the engine running at least. Presumably you put the biscuit tin over the sharks fin antenna. Which then leads to the question as to why the backup antenna did not take over. The system is fitted with two antenna's which are meant to switch over to the backup antenna if the main antenna fails, such as if it is damaged in an accident the backup antenna will work to notify BMW the car has been involved in an accident. Really strangely - I got fed up with no traffic info on the way to the office (which I've got used to with TomTom in the Galaxy) that I put the TomTom in the Bimmer. On the 2 days that I've used the TomTom the Bimmer has worked at 2 miles from home. These are the only 2 times this has happened. The Lady of the house tells me its because the Bimmer was jealous!! But I like to think a bit more scientifically I think it must be a coincidence, but I'm going to have to try it again. Going to try and take some time lapse photography of the screen.
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03-08-2012, 03:13 PM	#14
islandnipper Private First Class 3 Rep 118 Posts Drives: MY 2012 F10 520d SE Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Isle of Wight, UK iTrader: (0)	Hmmm. I wont give an ilconsidered reply... Interesting... Need to think again. (best wishes, by the way!)
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03-09-2012, 05:00 AM	#15
islandnipper Private First Class 3 Rep 118 Posts Drives: MY 2012 F10 520d SE Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Isle of Wight, UK iTrader: (0)	Ah, just thought! Is the backup antenna on the back ledge of the car, in which case it probably would have been obscured. The sheet of tin foil I used was a 6ftx6ft substantial bit of kit that we used to use for temporary ground planes on portable antennas. I've got loads of them! I didn't know how much "leakage" there'd be through the roof, so used the whole sheet, secured with a biscuit tin over the sharks fin...
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03-09-2012, 06:23 AM	#16
eskdale Second Lieutenant 5 Rep 205 Posts Drives: 520d M Sport Touring F11 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Gloucestershire UK iTrader: (0)	Hi - I think its in the rear bumper - at least that is where it was on an earlier model according to some Google searches. So that could explain why the backup antenna was also screened. Thanks for your help
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03-14-2012, 01:18 PM	#17
eskdale Second Lieutenant 5 Rep 205 Posts Drives: 520d M Sport Touring F11 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Gloucestershire UK iTrader: (0)	UPDATE2:- As per posting 5th March BMW eventually dropped a car off at my house yesterday and left it overnight and picked it up today. It behaved the same as mine. No connection for 21 Miles. Now they tried to tell me that its OK there is nothing wrong with my car as the other car does the same!! It has worked 3 times out of about 30 in reality, so there is no reason why it shouldn't work, if the design is correct. If the engine cut out every time on a journey would that be OK just because another car did the same. I don't understand their thinking sometimes. Lets hope that they talk to someone sensible at BMW.
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03-14-2012, 02:13 PM	#18
islandnipper Private First Class 3 Rep 118 Posts Drives: MY 2012 F10 520d SE Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Isle of Wight, UK iTrader: (0)	As you say, their logic makes no sense. It's a pity that there are enough variables to muddy the water for anyone (like most dealers!) that don't really have any appreciation of the technology involved. I'd be hard pushed to suggest the next stage (including some of our PM chats). I'm convinced that the system works in strong data signal areas: the difficulty is in determining just where those areas are, when the phone sig strength meters do not distinguish between the operator services. Best of luck in finding a solution and keep in touch! Nick
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03-15-2012, 04:47 AM	#19
eskdale Second Lieutenant 5 Rep 205 Posts Drives: 520d M Sport Touring F11 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Gloucestershire UK iTrader: (0)	Thanks Nick. I'm struggling to work out what scenario it is that creates this issue. If the car is left for some time a mile away from the house and start the journey from their it works (so its not really a signal strength issue) but when it doesn't work the location where it starts to work is always the same area 21 miles from home, so I assume it is some signal handover that makes it work. Realistically I don't understand why it doesn't roam onto Orange anyway. T-Mobile and Orange are now the same company (Everything Everywhere). There is Orange coverage at my home and for the full journey to work. Back to waiting for the dealer to come back to me again. I had a go at the New car Sales Manager last night as this was what BMW customer services sugested. BMW customer services don't seem to have any clout - all they can do is log your complaint and refer you back to the dealer. Jon
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03-15-2012, 05:27 AM	#20
E90Fleet Lieutenant General 1312 Rep 10,185 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Africa iTrader: (0)	Its really sounding like its a anomaly with the cell coverage in your home area. __________________ BMW if you are reading, I need a job, Please.
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03-15-2012, 07:41 AM	#21
eskdale Second Lieutenant 5 Rep 205 Posts Drives: 520d M Sport Touring F11 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Gloucestershire UK iTrader: (0)	Not really a simple coverage issue. As a) if it worked with Orange coverage as you would expect it to there is full coverage for the whole journey. b) If it only works with T-Mobile then it should pick up signal after 1 mile. If my £200 TomTom can work Reliably using TomTom Live I would expect the system in a £50,000 + car to work.
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03-16-2012, 12:09 PM	#22
eskdale Second Lieutenant 5 Rep 205 Posts Drives: 520d M Sport Touring F11 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Gloucestershire UK iTrader: (0)	Update 3:- Below is the response from the Dealer - Which is total rubbish. If I park the car 1 mile from home and start the journey there, it works perfectly all the way so how can they argue that it is because of poor signal strength. I also sent them photos of the signal strength taken every 15s where some parts of the journey were even showing max no of bars!! Connected Drive Delay As I indicated in our telephone conversations, the test car we received from BMW behaved in exactly the same way as your vehicle. I.e. from an overnight start up, the car takes 21 miles to connect to the BMW online system, thus giving limited accessibility during that section of your commute. After speaking to BMW regarding these findings I can clarify that the system in the vehicle requires a much stronger signal during its initial start up in order to retrieve its required data. Once it has this signal the system works to its full functionality and also as it is not retrieving as much data can therefore hold on to the signal for a much greater length of time. This also explains the situation that occurs during your return commute, whereby the signal is received very quickly and is held until approx 2 miles from your address. As a further test in the BMW car, I parked the car overnight at my property and found that the system connected within a minute, my address is not rural at all and hence this further proves this to be a signal issue rather than a technical fault within the car. It is unfortunate therefore that the signal during your commute to work is not conducive to the data transfer and start up procedure. Obviously this is an outside influence that BMW have no control over, As such I’m afraid from a technical point of view we can go no further in this matter as there is no component on the vehicle suffering from a manufacturing defect and hence we cannot action any repairs or quality enhancements.
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