[vngooi]

Hi All,

Does anyone know where the F10s being sold in Singapore are made/assembled in? I was told that there is a China-plant that makes the F10.....shudder!!!!

Also, the although all the "official" F10 brochures show that the 523i model is a 3-lire engine, the 523i model being marketed in Singapore is a 2.5 litre...so really very puzzled why this is the case?

[SuiDO]

BMW group wants to share the China market with high speed growth and is even building a second production plant in Tiexi of China. It is no surprise their plants will take care of asian market some days. Over the long term, they anticipate to produce as many as 300,000 vehicles a year in China. But for now, the BMWs made in China are only sold in China.

[bimmernic]

There is currently a plant in China, operated as a joint venture between BMW AG and the Brilliance Group. Currently, the production is only for the Chinese market but a second plant is in the pipeline, with production from this second plant slated for 2012.

http://www.bmwblog.com/2010/04/23/bm...na/#more-34204

The Singapore market has always had the 2.5l engine when the rest of the world had the 3.0l engine for for the 523/525 models. This was the case even for the E60.

The engine capacity tax position in SG does not make it very attractive for PML to bring in the 3.0l version of the 523 that is available for the rest of the world. The other reason appears to be that the high sulfur content of the fuel available in Singapore is not suitable for the N53 DI engine (the 3.0 l version).

The F10 523 (SG version) will be using the N52 2.5l 204 BHP / 250 Nm engine. The N53 version has the same horsepower rating but 20 Nm more torque.

[vngooi]

Originally Posted by nfnc

There is currently a plant in China, operated as a joint venture between BMW AG and the Brilliance Group. Currently, the production is only for the Chinese market but a second plant is in the pipeline, with production from this second plant slated for 2012.

http://www.bmwblog.com/2010/04/23/bm...na/#more-34204

The Singapore market has always had the 2.5l engine when the rest of the world had the 3.0l engine for for the 523/525 models. This was the case even for the E60.

The engine capacity tax position in SG does not make it very attractive for PML to bring in the 3.0l version of the 523 that is available for the rest of the world. The other reason appears to be that the high sulfur content of the fuel available in Singapore is not suitable for the N53 DI engine (the 3.0 l version).

The F10 523 (SG version) will be using the N52 2.5l 204 BHP / 250 Nm engine. The N53 version has the same horsepower rating but 20 Nm more torque.

Thanks for all the replies...I would prefer then to get the F10 before 2012...!!

[bm323]

Originally Posted by nfnc

The Singapore market has always had the 2.5l engine when the rest of the world had the 3.0l engine for for the 523/525 models. This was the case even for the E60.

The engine capacity tax position in SG does not make it very attractive for PML to bring in the 3.0l version of the 523 that is available for the rest of the world. The other reason appears to be that the high sulfur content of the fuel available in Singapore is not suitable for the N53 DI engine (the 3.0 l version).

The F10 523 (SG version) will be using the N52 2.5l 204 BHP / 250 Nm engine. The N53 version has the same horsepower rating but 20 Nm more torque.

I think the F10 523 in Singapore will be using the N53, and US using the N52 due to the high sulphur content of its fuel (?)

http://www.bmwinformation.com/engines/straight6_n.html

Quote "The BMW N53 will be BMW's latest and most modern straight-6 engine, which will debut 2007 in the facelifted 5 series (E60/E61). It is an improvement on the N52 Naturally Aspirated (NA) engine mainly since it has gasoline direct injection technology and can burn stratified. However, it will not contain Valvetronic due to space limitations in the cylinder head.

Specific vehicle models, engine sizes or other details are still sketchy at best. The 2.5 liter has unimproved power 215hp, but enhanced torque, to 199ft-lbs. The 3.0 liter has improved power to 268hp as well as improved torque. The N53 will be BMW's 14th generation production straight six engine.

Unfortunately the N53 engine series will not be sold in Australian and North American models due to the high sulphur content of the fuel available in these markets.

Interestingly, unlike previous engine generations such as the M50 and the M52 which had the 'TU' designation for the updated versions, the N53 was not called 'N52TU' as it more approprietely should have been named as it is an update of the previous N52 engines and not a new generation of engine."

[bimmernic]

It would be great if they used the N53 engine for the 523 in the Singapore market. However, the order receipt has the N52 notation under the "Model" column. So, unless PML has got it wrong, the N52 it is.

[Erasmus]

Originally Posted by bm323

I think the F10 523 in Singapore will be using the N53, and US using the N52 due to the high sulphur content of its fuel (?)

...

Specific vehicle models, engine sizes or other details are still sketchy at best. The 2.5 liter has unimproved power 215hp, but enhanced torque, to 199ft-lbs. The 3.0 liter has improved power to 268hp as well as improved torque. The N53 will be BMW's 14th generation production straight six engine.

....."

shouldn't it be 258 horsepower instead of 268 hp?
greetz Erasmus

[bm323]

Originally Posted by nfnc

It would be great if they used the N53 engine for the 523 in the Singapore market. However, the order receipt has the N52 notation under the "Model" column. So, unless PML has got it wrong, the N52 it is.

Does the 523i claim to have valvetronic (which means it's a N52) or gasoline direct injection without valvetronic (which means it's a N53)?

[bm323]

Originally Posted by Erasmus

shouldn't it be 258 horsepower instead of 268 hp?
greetz Erasmus

The engines can be configured differently, eg for the N52 3 liters
quote "The N52B30 comes in three versions, all displacing 3.0 L (2996 ccm/182 in�) and produces variable outputs depending on the BMW model that it comes with (with changes to the variable resonance system-omitted, dual plenum runner system-also omitted and variable back pressure muffler-omitted) 190 kW (255 hp) at 6600 and 300 N�m (221 ft�lbf) at 2500-4000 rpm is the first and most produced version, while the second one is more powerful at 195 kW (265 hp) at 6600 and 315 N�m (232 ft�lbf) at 2750-4250 rpm.

The third version is just starting to replace the first 190kW versions on the E90/E60 in Late 2006 and has first been released on the new E92 330i Coupé. It will produce 200 kW (272 hp) at 6650 and 315 N�m (232 ft�lbf) at 2750-4250 rpm.

Models Applied:

* 190 kW (255 hp) and 300 N�m (221 ft�lbf)
o E60/E61 530i/530xi Sedan and Touring
o E63/E64 630i (Not in the US market) Luxury Coupé and Convertible
o E65/E66 730i/730Li (Not in the US market) Luxury Sedan
o E90/E91 325i, 328i, 330i Sedan, Touring
* 195 kW (265 hp) and 315 N�m (232 ft�lbf)
o E85/E86 Z4 3.0i and 3.0si Roadster and Coupé
o E87 130i (Not in the US market) Hatchback
* 200 kW (272 hp) and 315 N�m (232 ft�lbf)
o E92/E93 328i/328xi Coupé, 4WD Coupé and the upcoming Hardtop Convertible
o E83 X3 3.0si Sports Activity Vehicle"
http://www.bmwinformation.com/engine...ight6_n.html#2

For the N53 3 liters, I'm not sure how reliable the information on Wikipedia is, but it appears the minimum/standard has 272 bhp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N53

The US 523i 3 liter has 204 hp http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325034

ps But looking at the US specs, it says that the engine for the 523i has direct fuel injecton (high precision injection) lean burn, which means that the N53 has been modified for higher sulphur content fuels?

[bimmernic]

Originally Posted by bm323

Does the 523i claim to have valvetronic (which means it's a N52) or gasoline direct injection without valvetronic (which means it's a N53)?

Salesperson just confirmed again that its the N52 engine.

I suspect the decision not to bring in the N53 engine has nothing to do with the high sulfur content (?) in the petrol available here. The N53 engine with another 20 Nm in torque (for the 523) but with a higher road tax (3.0l vs 2.5l) would not be that popular with local buyers. After all, PML brings in the 335i with the N54 3.0l twin turbo engine. That engine employs direct injection, which is supposedly not suitable to high sulfur content petrol as well.

[bm323]

Found this informative site on engine specs http://www.bmwheaven.com/component/o...ines/mtype,N52

[vngooi]

Originally Posted by nfnc

Salesperson just confirmed again that its the N52 engine.

I suspect the decision not to bring in the N53 engine has nothing to do with the high sulfur content (?) in the petrol available here. The N53 engine with another 20 Nm in torque (for the 523) but with a higher road tax (3.0l vs 2.5l) would not be that popular with local buyers. After all, PML brings in the 335i with the N54 3.0l twin turbo engine. That engine employs direct injection, which is supposedly not suitable to high sulfur content petrol as well.

Yes, its the N52 engine...got to preview the car...and the plate showed "N52B25A"....tried some of the links but cannot decipher what the "A" stands for....

[bm323]

Originally Posted by bimmernic

The other reason appears to be that the high sulfur content of the fuel available in Singapore is not suitable for the N53 DI engine (the 3.0 l version).

You are correct about the sulphur content, quoting from article below "In comparison, the European market 523i is actually powered by the 3.0-litre N53B30 naturally aspirated direct injection engine rated at 204hp @ 6,100rpm and 270Nm @ 1,500 - 4,250rpm. When asked why the older N52 engine was offered for our market, BMW personnel informed us that the highly sensitive direct injection system cannot yet be tuned for our market's high sulphur fuel.

Above the 523i is the RM200k-dearer 535i, powered by the 3.0-litre N55B30 engine, which features twin-scroll turbocharging, Valvetronic, and direct injection. But wait a minute, if BMW said they could not offer us the Euro-spec 523i due to problems tuning the direct injection system to suit our fuel, why is it that the 535i can?

We presented the question to BMW personnel during the media Q&A session, and according to them, although their colleagues have managed to tune turbocharged direct injection engines to suit high-sulphur fuel, they have yet to crack the problem when it comes to naturally aspirated direct injection engines."

http://www.autoworld.com.my/v2/news/...=RT.ATC.CAR.PV

[vngooi]

Originally Posted by bm323

You are correct about the sulphur content, quoting from article below "In comparison, the European market 523i is actually powered by the 3.0-litre N53B30 naturally aspirated direct injection engine rated at 204hp @ 6,100rpm and 270Nm @ 1,500 - 4,250rpm. When asked why the older N52 engine was offered for our market, BMW personnel informed us that the highly sensitive direct injection system cannot yet be tuned for our market's high sulphur fuel.

Above the 523i is the RM200k-dearer 535i, powered by the 3.0-litre N55B30 engine, which features twin-scroll turbocharging, Valvetronic, and direct injection. But wait a minute, if BMW said they could not offer us the Euro-spec 523i due to problems tuning the direct injection system to suit our fuel, why is it that the 535i can?

We presented the question to BMW personnel during the media Q&A session, and according to them, although their colleagues have managed to tune turbocharged direct injection engines to suit high-sulphur fuel, they have yet to crack the problem when it comes to naturally aspirated direct injection engines."

http://www.autoworld.com.my/v2/news/...=RT.ATC.CAR.PV

I am puzzled by this....just basing my comments on the article...first they say..".....highly sensitive direct injection system cannot yet be tuned for our market's high sulphur fuel....." Then in the same article "...they have yet to crack the problem when it comes to naturally aspirated direct injection engines.... SO what is the case? Is it a tuning problem or is there a problem with naturally aspirated DI engines. How about the Lexus, Jaguar, Mercs that are already using DI? How about the cars in Hong Kong? Taiwan?...

..as a lay person, I cannot believe that because of the fuel, an entire car's engine is different...is that just a marketing gimmick?...it would be instructive to see if once the 528i gets marketed, it gets hyped as it has a "new generation" engine of the DI-type...blah, blah, blah.....haha..

...so early adopters of the 523i are at the losing end...where the tech for the engine is concerned...?

[vngooi]

And oh!..thanks BM323 for the sharing!!...great that Malaysia has already launched!!...it will only be officially launched in Singapore on 18 May...In my opinion, sometimes waiting too long to launch will mute the effect on consumers...everybody else already know and seen, so what's the big deal!!!....no sense of timing!!!

[bimmernic]

Originally Posted by vngooi

...so early adopters of the 523i are at the losing end...where the tech for the engine is concerned...?

Possibly. Or, if they bring in the N53 DI engines, the 523i will be using the 3.0 litre engine, like ROW. But, this would not make the 523 competitive against, say, the E200 or E250, both of which are using 1.8 litre turbo charged engines. Hopefully, by the time the LCI is introduced, there will be a small capacity (2.0 - 2.5 litre) turbo charged engine

[RichReg]

Originally Posted by vngooi

..as a lay person, I cannot believe that because of the fuel, an entire car's engine is different...is that just a marketing gimmick?...it would be instructive to see if once the 528i gets marketed, it gets hyped as it has a "new generation" engine of the DI-type...blah, blah, blah.....haha..

The 528i engine that comes to the U.S. will be a different version altogether and will not have Direct Injection. In fact it has been cited on several occasions that BMW has no plans to bring DI to naturally aspirated engines at all here in the U.S.

[Allan Ng]

Hi, does anyone know if they will be rolling out the F10 528i in SG? If yes, when?

[akhter]

Originally Posted by Allan Ng

Hi, does anyone know if they will be rolling out the F10 528i in SG? If yes, when?

I don't think the will ever launch it because both 528 and 535 are 3.0L engine so much higher tax than the 2.5L 523i.

[kaishang]

Do you know anything about the sulfur content of fuel in Australia compared with Singapore? I notice Australia is one place where the 2.5L 325i is sold, compared with a 3.0L 325i in the rest of the world.

Also BMW Australia was in the Oz media about a year ago complaining that the standard of Australian fuel did not allow them to bring some of their more fuel efficient models in.

Originally Posted by bimmernic

The engine capacity tax position in SG does not make it very attractive for PML to bring in the 3.0l version of the 523 that is available for the rest of the world. The other reason appears to be that the high sulfur content of the fuel available in Singapore is not suitable for the N53 DI engine (the 3.0 l version).

The F10 523 (SG version) will be using the N52 2.5l 204 BHP / 250 Nm engine. The N53 version has the same horsepower rating but 20 Nm more torque.

[PoleApart]

The RHD 3 series for Asia and Australia are probably built in Rosslyn in South Africa. That's where a lot of UK 3 series were from too.

This is interesting:
http://www.wemotor.com/blog/2010/07/...-bmw-5-series/

I guess it's just basic SKD assembly to avoid some kind of import duty, right?

[bm323]

Originally Posted by Allan Ng

Hi, does anyone know if they will be rolling out the F10 528i in SG? If yes, when?

My SE does not have info on this but my guess is they will. Malaysia will be having the 528i likely in less than 1 year Parallel importers have been bringing in the 523i with the 3 liter engine, likely the 528i too. May not be advisable to buy from parallel importers in the first year of production though.