[Pottsy]

HP,

I think I do more or less the same as you. The issue is with the items or parameters which are fixed. For me, that's the angle to the right my legs have to take to reach the pedals. Obviously we can't move the pedals left or the seat right.

The only way to mitigate the angle (mathematically) is to have the seat base as far back as possible - which I do.

Looking at the first photo in the sequence just above, do you see your legs covering the right hand seat base bolster more than the left hand one, like I do?

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Pottsy

HP,

Looking at the first photo in the sequence just above, do you see your legs covering the right hand seat base bolster more than the left hand one, like I do?

I took note of how my legs were positioned while out driving and they seemed pretty equal to me. Seeing your pictures after my return, I was surprised your legs seem so odd for position, so went out to the car just to double check how I was seated. To be honest I'm not that comfortable when I sit like your pose. My legs/knees relax at equal positions on the seat. Maybe how we have the seat base tilt and thigh support has an influence?

Must say I'm a bit baffled how the slight offset, has such an impact on your comfort. Until you posted this topic, I'd never even noticed there was an issue with the dead pedal and accelerator being different offsets to the steering and seat line.

HighlandPete

[The Beast]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I took note of how my legs were positioned while out driving and they seemed pretty equal to me. Seeing your pictures after my return, I was surprised your legs seem so odd for position, so went out to the car just to double check how I was seated. To be honest I'm not that comfortable when I sit like your pose. My legs/knees relax at equal positions on the seat. Maybe how we have the seat base tilt and thigh support has an influence?

Must say I'm a bit baffled how the slight offset, has such an impact on your comfort. Until you posted this topic, I'd never even noticed there was an issue with the dead pedal and accelerator being different offsets to the steering and seat line.

HighlandPete

Exactly that's why I suggested tilting the seat as it appears that you have no thigh support...

[wicked5]

Originally Posted by xenon

The 3 series does have a foot rest - why wouldn't it?

The right hand model does not, the clutch is far left. A lot of cars are like this, infact on some models the "foot rest" is to the far right, which is useless considering the foot needs to be on the pedal all of the time. Heh.

[325_bucks]

I just sat on my car and I lookexactly like you seem to do in the disco! No twisted body at all for me

[bd250]

I agree with Pottsy. The pedals on the F10 are ludicrously offset. That said, most of my 50 mile round-trip commute is on motorway where I simply engage the cruise control and that sorts the problem. Like yours, mine is an auto. I defiantly notice that if I stretch my legs straight out in front of me the left leg is where the clutch would be and the right is behind the brake pedal.

There are a few things to improve the issue next time round (assuming BMW don't actually fix it in the next generation)

Memory Seats (I find it infuriating when my other half adjusts the seat and steering wheel - takes ages to get it just right again)
Active Cruise.
I'd also have comfort access, I can't stand having no sensible storage compartment/slot where it won't rattle around. At least the key could stay in my pocket then, like it did when I had it before.

[Pottsy]

HP (and others),

Thanks for your help. I do have the thigh support out, but I think the issue is having the seat too far back. If my legs are nearly straight, then the pedal offset has to be accommodated by my hip joints angling my legs to the right, because knees don't bend that way. If I move closer and introduce a bent knee, then the pedal offset can be accommodated by rotation of the thigh at the hip, which although not ideal, does not transmit such a big twist up my torso. So I need to sit closer, or higher, or both, in order to get a good bend in the knee. I'll report back after a few days of driving.

[HighlandPete]

I'm sure some of it is sitting too far back.... have you seen the linked video?

HighlandPete

[Flyboy-fil]

I agree too with the offset pedals although they're not as bad as some cars. My last bmw was a 1996 (had itm96-98) 3 which was acceptable but the next model was much worse (don't know model numbers). But coming to a current 5 from a Volvo where the alignment was perfect I spend quite a while ensuring the offset wasn't too bad.

At work however, the alignment is perfect...just the blooming seats are so incredibly firm....Boeing 777.

Oh for a 777 with a side stick (but I'd keep the 777 control laws and moving thrust levers)

[ukbeemerboy]

Originally Posted by wicked5

The right hand model does not, the clutch is far left. A lot of cars are like this, infact on some models the "foot rest" is to the far right, which is useless considering the foot needs to be on the pedal all of the time. Heh.

All the 3 series I've ever owned and driven have had a footrest in the footwell, as does the 1 series...

[AP]

Originally Posted by Flyboy-fil

I agree too with the offset pedals although they're not as bad as some cars. My last bmw was a 1996 (had itm96-98) 3 which was acceptable but the next model was much worse (don't know model numbers). But coming to a current 5 from a Volvo where the alignment was perfect I spend quite a while ensuring the offset wasn't too bad.

At work however, the alignment is perfect...just the blooming seats are so incredibly firm....Boeing 777.

Oh for a 777 with a side stick (but I'd keep the 777 control laws and moving thrust levers)

another pilot on these forums. making me jealous , I only fly a PA28 Dakota. (No control laws and I move the levers!)

[Piers]

Since this thread, I have now investigated my seating position, and similar to some of the posts above, I sit differently in this car.

In the Lotus, and in previous cars, I tend to sit a little more laid back, being 5'7", I tend to have the seat further forward, back tilted back so I am not too close to the wheel, not gangster style don't worry!.

However in the 5, I sit further back and higher than normal, with the back more upright, Now this maybe due to not having a clutch and its associated long travel, but either way, both the Lotus and BMW are very comfortable in totally different environments.

My annual Lotus European tour is 9 days, over 3000 miles, in total comfort, albeit "driving" rather than "wafting".

[Apple Corps]

I'll add my thoughts now that I have completed a 10 hour touring run to the Bay Area / Bodega Bay / Sonoma.

Almost needed an EMT to move me out of my 2014 550. Lower back was sore & stiff and the buttocks were numb (tmi) I have the same sense of things not being aligned correctly as mentioned by the OP.

That same trip made in our 2012 X5 - relaxed and arrived back home refreshed.

Like others, I have fiddled with different seat settings but have yet to find a comfortable position. Our Lexus GS 430 is also much more comfortable.

I am 5'11" - 165 pounds - maybe some of us are just not anatomically matched to the F10 seat / control arrangement ???

[morellomax]

Pottsy - do you think it's anything to do with the steering weight rather than the possibly slightly offset pedals ? I find the F10 steering a little heavy for a car that's intended as a relaxing long-distance cruiser, and it's also a little unpredictable in the way it weights up in corners or even when trying to maintain straight ahead on a camber or on a windy motorway, and all of that does tend to make me tense my back and shoulders a bit, bracing myself for an unknown amount of steering effort being required at any moment.

There were many things I didn't like about my 2012 F10 but the iffy steering feel and assistance is the only one that's survived to my 2015 car. Running on non-runflat Michelin Primacy 3s on 18s, it's as good as I can make it, but it still sucks compared to virtually every other decent car I've driven in the last year: C-class, Mk7 Golf, Focus, S-Max, a few others. I think it may actually have less satisfying and less predictable steering feel than our VW Caravelle !

[Pottsy]

I think you're right in so much that the steering is very poor - but ultimately all this is doing is making you notice how twisted your body is when driving. If the seating position was fine, the steering would still be poor, but it wouldn't hurt!

I have my seat as high as the HUD will allow - this causes more of the twist to be taken by the knee rather than the hip and spine. But it still gives me grief.

[xenon]

Originally Posted by ukbeemerboy

All the 3 series I've ever owned and driven have had a footrest in the footwell, as does the 1 series...

As does my current F31

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Pottsy

I think you're right in so much that the steering is very poor - but ultimately all this is doing is making you notice how twisted your body is when driving. If the seating position was fine, the steering would still be poor, but it wouldn't hurt!

Is the steering that poor?

A simple point, is your steering wheel perfectly set mid position when tracking straight? I mean 'exactly' mid position, as if not, that could be the issue. Steering angle sensor setting (to actual wheel position while driving) is critical and is key to giving steering precision.

HighlandPete

[SHoTTa35]

I think its a right hand drive issue. In the carbuyer or one of the reviews that British dude said the same thing about the steering wheel being off centered.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by SHoTTa35

I think its a right hand drive issue. In the carbuyer or one of the reviews that British dude said the same thing about the steering wheel being off centered.

A steering wheel off centre will definitely mess with the steering accuracy, same as an alignment that doesn't include a steering wheel sensor recalibration can cause more issues than it solves.

If the sensor is not at zero position when going straight (steering wheel off centre) it has no absolute reference.

HighlandPete

[Pottsy]

Pete,

Steering wheel alignement is spot on. It's the inherent numbness and poor feedback and weighting around the centre position that's the issue. What's tragic is having to put up with EPS to save the inefficiency of a hydraulic pump, but I already have a hydraulic pump for the ARS...

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Pottsy

Pete,

Steering wheel alignement is spot on. It's the inherent numbness and poor feedback and weighting around the centre position that's the issue. What's tragic is having to put up with EPS to save the inefficiency of a hydraulic pump, but I already have a hydraulic pump for the ARS...

Ah, the usual complaint on F10/11 steering. I've commented before on the slight lack of mid position precision, I tweaked my alignment to get my wheel exactly correct and keep tyre pressures within a couple of psi tolerance, to keep the steering in best state. Got used to the feel and don't think much about it these days. Strange thing the steering is better on my winter wheels, only 17", more fluid and less corrupted by road conditions.

Agree on having EPS and having the hydraulic pump, though the pump is supposed to run at very low pressure while driving straight to save power wastage.

HighlandPete

[Apple Corps]

More on the pain - I do believe that Pottsy is on to something. For some time I have noticed that when I sit in the drivers seat the bolsters are not "aligned" with how I am sitting. Today, I carefully centered myself in the seat with the bolsters applying equal pressure to my left and right thighs. I look straight forward and observe that my torso is pointing off towards the left headlight. I normally seat myself pointing parallel to the center axis of the car. That is why I have been experiencing issues with the bolsters. If you were looking down through the roof the driver's seat is rotated 5 degrees or so to the left. Add to that the pedal placement and we have some torsional tension going on.

As a sanity check, I hopped into our Lexus 430 - centered in the seat, equal pressure on the thighs from the bolsters, and BINGO - my torso and eyes are aimed forward and parallel to the center axis of the car.

Hmmmmm