[Bbb34]

Sorry to hear about your bad experience, but you know, s... happens (even after you spend huge amounts of money on a car). Even if you had a spare you could've ended up being late and/or dirty/wet/frozen. One of those just unfortunate things that just happen now and then.

I agree with others that BMW should make this an option, and leave the decision to the buyer. I for one would like to have spare. Whether this (or a bad roadside assistance service) is big enough reason to move to another brand is personal decision everybody has to make.

As for RF tires.
I had 2 inch sidewall burst (front tire) and have driven 100+ km. home slowly with my family in the car. Car was sitting in the garage for two days on punctured RF (until tires I ordered arrived) then driven to the dealership 20km away with no issues. Did I risk the rim damage? You bet, but it worked fine for me that time.

Runflats may, or may not get you where you're headed, depends on the type of puncture I suppose.

I since switched to non RF tire with Continental kit in the trunk.
This, also, may, or may not get me where I'm headed depending on type of puncture.

In either case I'd prefer to have a spare tire, but in either case, flat tire is an inconvenience that will slow you down and cost you money.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by The X Men

Blow out to me means that the tire lost all pressure in less than a second or two, that is a very dangerous situation if it happens at high speed. One of the advantage of runflat is that it can keep the car stable in a high speed blowout.

Similar here, for me a blowout is sudden air loss, or catastrophic tire failure. Not your typical slow air loss, with the 'bong' which warns we have lost some air pressure.

The blowout is usually caused by a sharp object penetrating the tire or ripping a tire open, or the tire itself structurally failing. Certainly would like to understand the way the RFT is typically failing.

With the typical slow puncture, we can be put some air back in the tire and run on with some pressure (even full pressure) and extend the RFT's ability to run for many more miles than 50miles at 50mph, with a loaded car.

HighlandPete

[The Beast]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Similar here, for me a blowout is sudden air loss, or catastrophic tire failure. Not your typical slow air loss, with the 'bong' which warns we have lost some air pressure.

The blowout is usually caused by a sharp object penetrating the tire or ripping a tire open, or the tire itself structurally failing. Certainly would like to understand the way the RFT is typically failing.

With the typical slow puncture, we can be put some air back in the tire and run on with some pressure (even full pressure) and extend the RFT's ability to run for many more miles than 50miles at 50mph, with a loaded car.

HighlandPete

Yep agree

I ran a Bridgestone RFT with a slow puncture for two months before changing it. Just topped it up every other day with my compressor. Interesting thing was there were no small balls of rubber in the tyre when I did get them all changed, indicating that even though the tyre ran as low as 15 PSI at times it never heated up enough to destroy the tyre totally.

[///M5Driver]

[ezmaass]

Thanks for all the replies guys. To answer a few questions:

1. What it a true blowout?

Yes. I hit a moon crater (e.g. pothole) that instantly blew the tire and the warning bells were ringing in under a second about low tire pressure. The car immediately drove with a "thumping" noise - all air gone, riding on the tire sidewall with a substantial crack in it.

2. Why didn't I continue driving on it?

In fact, I did. I continued to drive the final 5 miles to my destination. However, I had a 100+ mile trip HOME after the event was over. So, being that it was now Sunday at 3pm in the afternoon, I had to immediately start figuring out my options for getting the tire repaired. These tires are only rated to go about 50 miles once flat - I wasn't about to attempt twice that distance.

3. How does the R8 do it?

The R8 actually comes with a tire repair kit (no spare). But then again, if you read the R8 forums, very few guys have ever experienced tire or rim problems amazingly - bent rims, as an example, are also nearly unheard of even on daily driven cars. But that's neither here nor there.

While I do value runflat technology, they're just tires. This nonsense about not having room in the car for a spare? Well, that's just nonsense. Every car for the past hundred years prior to this trend carried a spare. My e46 had a full sized spare. I'd even accept a space saver. But the idea that I need to (a) purchase this part separately, and then (b) eat up a large part of my trunk space with it, is just silly. Every BMW, including 5-series, of yesteryear had spare tires. BMW is making a conscious decision not to include them - and we're left to believe that runflats are an acceptable substitute. They're not.

And for those looking to carry a tire repair kit? Good luck - not an acceptable substitute either. On the last blowout I had, I actually tried a tire repair - mini compressor blows hardening gel into the tire, pumps it up, etc. It doesn't work when the tire has blown out and the damage is more than a minor hole (like a nail puncture).

So the fact remains, you're s*** out of luck if you get a flat tire and (a) you're more than 50 miles from your destination, (b) it's after hours, and/or (c) a replacement RFT can't be located and mounted. As I said, the SIMPLE inconvenience of a flat tire is now elevated to be on-par with a mechanical breakdown - or hell, a breakdown that lets you continue for up to 50 miles, but still requires you to then get to a professional service center.

Sorry, the whole thing is just unacceptable to me. This is a pretty obvious situation of where BMW has made life much more complex for its customers. Imagine if your home had lightbulbs that would blow out, but would continue to stay on for an hour after they burned out - keeping you from losing light altogether. But then it required you to get a professional electrician in, with special bulbs, to fix it. That would be utterly ridiculous, as a simple inconvenience of changing a lightbulb pales in comparison to the hassle of the replacement job. Well, this is no different in my eyes. BMW can still choose to provide RFTs as standard equipment, but a spare is a must as the two serve very different objectives. The RFT is what enables you to continue uninterrupted to your destination and safely change the tire in a safe location. The spare is what enables you to continue on your way longer term without needing to employ the use of services or be reliant upon the availability of a shop and its parts. Apparently BMW believes, and have educated their roadside assistance, that an "acceptable solution" is to tell their customers to hang out overnight wherever they got their flat - complete nonsense.

Long story short - it's a fail for BMW. When I can take my old e46 and put run-flats on it, along with a full sized run-flat in the trunk, and be MUCH better off than my brand new F10? That's a fail - there's no reason why a bunch of guys here should be discussing buying spare tires and eating up their trunk space with them - flat tires have never been such a big deal.

[Genieman]

Originally Posted by ezmaass

Thanks for all the replies guys. To answer a few questions:

1. What it a true blowout?

Yes. I hit a moon crater (e.g. pothole) that instantly blew the tire and the warning bells were ringing in under a second about low tire pressure. The car immediately drove with a "thumping" noise - all air gone, riding on the tire sidewall with a substantial crack in it.

2. Why didn't I continue driving on it?

In fact, I did. I continued to drive the final 5 miles to my destination. However, I had a 100+ mile trip HOME after the event was over. So, being that it was now Sunday at 3pm in the afternoon, I had to immediately start figuring out my options for getting the tire repaired. These tires are only rated to go about 50 miles once flat - I wasn't about to attempt twice that distance.

3. How does the R8 do it?

The R8 actually comes with a tire repair kit (no spare). But then again, if you read the R8 forums, very few guys have ever experienced tire or rim problems amazingly - bent rims, as an example, are also nearly unheard of even on daily driven cars. But that's neither here nor there.

While I do value runflat technology, they're just tires. This nonsense about not having room in the car for a spare? Well, that's just nonsense. Every car for the past hundred years prior to this trend carried a spare. My e46 had a full sized spare. I'd even accept a space saver. But the idea that I need to (a) purchase this part separately, and then (b) eat up a large part of my trunk space with it, is just silly. Every BMW, including 5-series, of yesteryear had spare tires. BMW is making a conscious decision not to include them - and we're left to believe that runflats are an acceptable substitute. They're not.

And for those looking to carry a tire repair kit? Good luck - not an acceptable substitute either. On the last blowout I had, I actually tried a tire repair - mini compressor blows hardening gel into the tire, pumps it up, etc. It doesn't work when the tire has blown out and the damage is more than a minor hole (like a nail puncture).

So the fact remains, you're s*** out of luck if you get a flat tire and (a) you're more than 50 miles from your destination, (b) it's after hours, and/or (c) a replacement RFT can't be located and mounted. As I said, the SIMPLE inconvenience of a flat tire is now elevated to be on-par with a mechanical breakdown - or hell, a breakdown that lets you continue for up to 50 miles, but still requires you to then get to a professional service center.

Sorry, the whole thing is just unacceptable to me. This is a pretty obvious situation of where BMW has made life much more complex for its customers. Imagine if your home had lightbulbs that would blow out, but would continue to stay on for an hour after they burned out - keeping you from losing light altogether. But then it required you to get a professional electrician in, with special bulbs, to fix it. That would be utterly ridiculous, as a simple inconvenience of changing a lightbulb pales in comparison to the hassle of the replacement job. Well, this is no different in my eyes. BMW can still choose to provide RFTs as standard equipment, but a spare is a must as the two serve very different objectives. The RFT is what enables you to continue uninterrupted to your destination and safely change the tire in a safe location. The spare is what enables you to continue on your way longer term without needing to employ the use of services or be reliant upon the availability of a shop and its parts. Apparently BMW believes, and have educated their roadside assistance, that an "acceptable solution" is to tell their customers to hang out overnight wherever they got their flat - complete nonsense.

Long story short - it's a fail for BMW. When I can take my old e46 and put run-flats on it, along with a full sized run-flat in the trunk, and be MUCH better off than my brand new F10? That's a fail - there's no reason why a bunch of guys here should be discussing buying spare tires and eating up their trunk space with them - flat tires have never been such a big deal.

Hey man, where in CT are you? I'm in Stamford... I'm actually taking a road trip this coming Saturday to South Carolina in my car with my wife and 4-month old and you've gotten me all paranoid.

Here is a story for comparison; someone I know who owns an A6 drove this past Saturday night and just near his house hit a curb or rock or something and the damage was so severe that it resulted in a hole in his tire that was a 1-2 inches in diameter AND his wheel cracked. Being a few hundred feet from his house he made it home on that wheel and tire. The next morning he woke up and took his spare (non-full sized, space saver, doughnut, whatever you call it) and mounted it on his car. He has wheel and tire insurance so is pretty certain the repair/replacement won't cost him much, but was told that they can't make an appointment for him to replace it until Tuesday. Today he was able to drive round trip to work on the spare and his life didn't come to a complete halt due to a VERY severe blow out. A6's have spares. My old s-line A5 had a spare although in the 3 years I've owned it I never had a single blow out on stock nor aftermarket wheels and tires.

RFT may prevent that one in a billion situation where someone gets stuck on the side of the highway and gets hit by another car while attempting to put the spare tire on. But the rest of the time, the RFTs seem to be more of a hindrance than anything else. While I haven't had the frustrating experience that you had (and that's probably why I haven't yet sworn off future BMWs) if something remotely close to this happens to me on my road trip, which will span a Sunday as well, I'm going to be in a similar mindset as you.

[ezmaass]

Originally Posted by Genieman

Hey man, where in CT are you? I'm in Stamford... I'm actually taking a road trip this coming Saturday to South Carolina in my car with my wife and 4-month old and you've gotten me all paranoid.

Here is a story for comparison; someone I know who owns an A6 drove this past Saturday night and just near his house hit a curb or rock or something and the damage was so severe that it resulted in a hole in his tire that was a 1-2 inches in diameter AND his wheel cracked. Being a few hundred feet from his house he made it home on that wheel and tire. The next morning he woke up and took his spare (non-full sized, space saver, doughnut, whatever you call it) and mounted it on his car. He has wheel and tire insurance so is pretty certain the repair/replacement won't cost him much, but was told that they can't make an appointment for him to replace it until Tuesday. Today he was able to drive round trip to work on the spare and his life didn't come to a complete halt due to a VERY severe blow out. A6's have spares. My old s-line A5 had a spare although in the 3 years I've owned it I never had a single blow out on stock nor aftermarket wheels and tires.

RFT may prevent that one in a billion situation where someone gets stuck on the side of the highway and gets hit by another car while attempting to put the spare tire on. But the rest of the time, the RFTs seem to be more of a hindrance than anything else. While I haven't had the frustrating experience that you had (and that's probably why I haven't yet sworn off future BMWs) if something remotely close to this happens to me on my road trip, which will span a Sunday as well, I'm going to be in a similar mindset as you.

I'm also in Fairfield county.

As I said, my issue isn't so much with RFTs - I think they're a good idea to keep guys from having to change tires in unsafe locations, and they certainly help in keeping you on-track to your destination. But I don't believe the RFT manufacturers intended them to be replacements for spare tires. You can continue up to 50 miles, but ultimately that's it, the tire still needs to then be replaced. Finding a service center that's open, has the right tire, and taking the time to mount it is a huge inconvenience over pulling over and putting a spare wheel on your car.

I've not checked out Audi or MB. Honestly, I love my 550xi, but I think I'm going to need to check out the competition now. No matter how great the car is, it's hampered in a major way by having no spare... and that can also be a major safety issue if on a long distance road trip. There are just too many parts of the country that don't have readily available service centers (certainly not 24x7 or even Sunday), and many don't stock these tires. I'm just in awe that in the year 2015 I'd be sitting here discussing how an $85k luxury car is at such a disadvantage compared to cars of the past 100 years. Certainly something is wrong with that situation.

More over, to the point made by many here, there appears to be something terribly wrong with the Goodyear Eagle LS2 tires. I've had cars for many years with low profile tires, and I've hit plenty of potholes with them. Tire damage can certainly occur, but there appears to be an alarming rate of blowouts on 5-series cars fitted with these OEM tires. Prior to the incidents on this car, I can't even remember the last time I had a flat tire.

No response from BMW Customer Service yet - it's been 24 hours since I contacted them.

[NewM3driver]

Originally Posted by ezmaass

Thanks for all the replies guys. To answer a few questions:

1. What it a true blowout?

Yes. I hit a moon crater (e.g. pothole) that instantly blew the tire and the warning bells were ringing in under a second about low tire pressure. The car immediately drove with a "thumping" noise - all air gone, riding on the tire sidewall with a substantial crack in it.

2. Why didn't I continue driving on it?

In fact, I did. I continued to drive the final 5 miles to my destination. However, I had a 100+ mile trip HOME after the event was over. So, being that it was now Sunday at 3pm in the afternoon, I had to immediately start figuring out my options for getting the tire repaired. These tires are only rated to go about 50 miles once flat - I wasn't about to attempt twice that distance.

3. How does the R8 do it?

The R8 actually comes with a tire repair kit (no spare). But then again, if you read the R8 forums, very few guys have ever experienced tire or rim problems amazingly - bent rims, as an example, are also nearly unheard of even on daily driven cars. But that's neither here nor there.

While I do value runflat technology, they're just tires. This nonsense about not having room in the car for a spare? Well, that's just nonsense. Every car for the past hundred years prior to this trend carried a spare. My e46 had a full sized spare. I'd even accept a space saver. But the idea that I need to (a) purchase this part separately, and then (b) eat up a large part of my trunk space with it, is just silly. Every BMW, including 5-series, of yesteryear had spare tires. BMW is making a conscious decision not to include them - and we're left to believe that runflats are an acceptable substitute. They're not.

And for those looking to carry a tire repair kit? Good luck - not an acceptable substitute either. On the last blowout I had, I actually tried a tire repair - mini compressor blows hardening gel into the tire, pumps it up, etc. It doesn't work when the tire has blown out and the damage is more than a minor hole (like a nail puncture).

So the fact remains, you're s*** out of luck if you get a flat tire and (a) you're more than 50 miles from your destination, (b) it's after hours, and/or (c) a replacement RFT can't be located and mounted. As I said, the SIMPLE inconvenience of a flat tire is now elevated to be on-par with a mechanical breakdown - or hell, a breakdown that lets you continue for up to 50 miles, but still requires you to then get to a professional service center.

Sorry, the whole thing is just unacceptable to me. This is a pretty obvious situation of where BMW has made life much more complex for its customers. Imagine if your home had lightbulbs that would blow out, but would continue to stay on for an hour after they burned out - keeping you from losing light altogether. But then it required you to get a professional electrician in, with special bulbs, to fix it. That would be utterly ridiculous, as a simple inconvenience of changing a lightbulb pales in comparison to the hassle of the replacement job. Well, this is no different in my eyes. BMW can still choose to provide RFTs as standard equipment, but a spare is a must as the two serve very different objectives. The RFT is what enables you to continue uninterrupted to your destination and safely change the tire in a safe location. The spare is what enables you to continue on your way longer term without needing to employ the use of services or be reliant upon the availability of a shop and its parts. Apparently BMW believes, and have educated their roadside assistance, that an "acceptable solution" is to tell their customers to hang out overnight wherever they got their flat - complete nonsense.

Long story short - it's a fail for BMW. When I can take my old e46 and put run-flats on it, along with a full sized run-flat in the trunk, and be MUCH better off than my brand new F10? That's a fail - there's no reason why a bunch of guys here should be discussing buying spare tires and eating up their trunk space with them - flat tires have never been such a big deal.

So the run flat tire had a blow out and worked as promised and got you safely the rest of the way to your destination. It was your decision to miss the party and deal with a tire.... something that could have been done at a later time considering the importance of the event you were hosting.



Not at all trying to be a jerk... and i agree with you on the no spare thing, but you could have made the party and dealt with the car issue later.

[BMWrules7]

Originally Posted by ezmaass

I had yet another tire blowout today on the 550xi. This time I was 100 miles from home with my wife and our 22 month old toddler.

Being Sunday, I was told by BMW Roadside Assistance that I was essentially out of luck - STRANDED - all of the service centers were closed. Their only suggestion was to tow the car and have it fixed on Monday.

Meanwhile, my wife and I were the hosts of my parents' 40th anniversary party - missing half the party to sort out a simple flat tire. Needless to say, over 100 guests were flabbergasted that an $85k car didn't have a spare, and a simple flat tire was the virtual equivalent to a mechanical breakdown, requiring professional service and availability of the right "parts" (runflat tires) to fix it.

The BMW Roadside Assistance folks were USELESS. The woman on the other end didn't understand that the car didn't have a spare tire - come on BMW, your people aren't trained. She kept asking me if they could send someone to change the tire. I said sure, so long as you provide the tire and can mount it to the rim!

I was lucky enough to find a Mavis Discount Tire that had the right (crappy) LS2 tire just an hour before they were ready to close shop. I got the car down there and tire replaced just in time. I ended up missing a good majority of the VERY EXPENSIVE party we were hosting for my parents at the same time.

The fact that BMW doesn't have a spare tire has now become a deal breaker. It's unacceptable for me, or my family, to become stranded somewhere with ZERO help from BMW... all because BMW has decided that spare tires are unnecessary. While I appreciate runflat tire technology, it's not a REPLACEMENT for a spare tire. It's designed to allow you to safely continue to your destination or the nearest safe place to change the tire. However, because BMW doesn't include a spare, it means that a simple flat tire essentially turns into a mechanical breakdown situation - you need to find a service center that's open and also hope they stock the right tire. And if it's a Sunday, or after hours, get prepared to hear, "You better get a hotel room and plan to spend the night!"

As you can imagine, I no longer feel confident driving the 550xi anywhere substantial. If I'm more than 50 miles from home, and one of the car's notoriously terrible RFTs goes out, it could mean that my family and I are stranded.

In today's day and age, that's just unacceptable. It's the equivalent to having a very unreliable car. My 550xi has less than 10k miles on the odometer, and this has now happened TWICE. There's just no rationale or excuse for a flat tire becoming a debilitating situation in the year 2015. However, BMW has tied us, the owners, to the mercy of service shop hours and tire availability - no less a LOT of time necessary to rectify the situation... mounting a tire versus simply swapping a wheel, which could be done anywhere with a jack.

So, what's left to do? I could take the RFTs off the car and replace them with non-RFTs. Perhaps they'd be less likely to pop (the LS2s are apparently horrible), but if they DID pop, I'd be left in a similar situation. I could carry some fix-a-flat to deal with small punctures, but a large blowout (like today's) would require a spare. The only solution there would be to give up the majority of the trunk space to carry a spare wheel - unacceptable and unworkable, especially when this car costs $85k.

I've sent BMW Customer Relations a pretty unpleasant e-mail this evening about the day's events. But admittedly, I'm not sure what they can do about it. It's not something they can really "fix" as it's a design flaw. But I'm still going to press them to do what they believe could help make it right - perhaps starting with paying the $500 cost to replace the latest tire.

I've driven BMWs for 15 years, and I do love the cars. So it's a shame that this may very well be my last unless BMW decides it's important to once again carry spare tires. I can't risk having my family stranded due to a simple flat tire - especially when they seem to occur so easily on this car.

I'll be seriously looking at selling the 550xi and moving to another brand. Overall, I've loved this car, but a car is of NO use if it's unreliable, and BMW has made a FATAL mistake in allowing its tires to become an Achilles Heel.

I must agree that BMW implementation of run flats is totally inept.

Even today, I hear arguments that are well settled like, "run flats can be fixed"

BMW seems to be most concerned about green solutions these days.

Let me tell you, run flats are the farthest thing from green.

Run flats cannot be fixed. What a tremendous waste RFT technology is.

Anyone who says, "I fixed an RFT blah blah," is misguided. I concede that you can physically fix an RFT. But, the problem is that there is no way to track the number of miles in an RFTs deflated state. Hence, you are left with a completely useless rubber toroid---even when the tread is brand new.

Next, BMW has failed to adequately convey the risks involved with not having a spare.

Seriously, most people, when told their new car has no spare, really cannot grasp the total and utter inconvenience that is. Relying on RFTs means you can't travel anywhere on Sundays or holidays.

Plus, any damage to your wheel (prior) to RFTs was a trivial event as most bimmers had a full sized spare.

In short, RFTs have simply made it so your fancy bimmer can only be reliably used as a commuter vehicle. Only a fool would use a car solely equipped with RFTs for any kind of trip over 300 miles.


BMW has done nothing to equip its dealers with a viable solution to customers with flat tire. In fact, I do believe BMW has issued directives to its dealer network that it make flat fixing a high priority. But, it's still a PITA and as much as they make you feel you are a priority, but the center's local customers come first.

What could BMW do?

Embrace the fact the people don't want to wait half a day for Barny's Bucolic Bimmer flatbed to lose use of their car on a Sunday or Holiday because of a flat.

How hard could it be to make every BMW service center have a access to some kind of extremely large shed that stocks a wheel and tire that can fit on 90% of its cars? This way, the flatbed (or some other service---a dude in a pickup truck) can use the BMW assist database to quickly determine the type of wheel and tire needed by the customer, deliver it within 1 hour and get the customer on his way. The customers' defective wheel would serve as collateral thus avoiding payment problems. Yeah, the wheel may not match, but at least the customer can drive. For those customers with the big bucks, perhaps a service could be developed to swap all four wheels and tires to make sure they always match.

Hey, people thought FedEx was crazy before it took off.

[ezmaass]

Originally Posted by NewM3driver

So the run flat tire had a blow out and worked as promised and got you safely the rest of the way to your destination. It was your decision to miss the party and deal with a tire.... something that could have been done at a later time considering the importance of the event you were hosting.



Not at all trying to be a jerk... and i agree with you on the no spare thing, but you could have made the party and dealt with the car issue later.

I think you're confused. If I had "dealt with the car issue later" it would have been 8pm on a Sunday evening by the time the event was over - ZERO chance I would have been able to get it fixed. As it was, I had a slim window before the few service shops open on a Sunday could be located to fix it. Most shops would be closed by 5pm of the few that were open on Sunday to begin with AND had the right tire.

So, let's go with "deal with it later" - now, 8pm on a Sunday, the party lets out, and I'm with my wife and a toddler 100 miles from home, everything closed, trying to figure out what to do. The best I could have done is find a place to shack up for the night - locate a hotel nearby, or maybe a relative who wouldn't have minded the company. Let's not even begin to mention the PITA it would be to make sure you get the right supplies for a 22 month old - including diapers, wipes, their specific dietary needs, change of clothes, etc. AND, I'd be missing work the next day, so clearing my calendar of a dozen or so meetings on a Monday. And if I took BMW up on their offer to have the car towed, now I'm "carless" - so I'm looking to rent a car? Hope someone can drive me? Get a taxi? Not so quick - again, I have a 22 month old with a massive car seat to consider. I can go on here.

The reality is... NONE OF THAT should be necessary for a SIMPLE FLAT TIRE. For decades on end, men around the world have dealt with flat tires - yes, they suck, but they suck for only 20 minutes... while you take the spare out of the trunk, jack up the car, loosen some lug nuts, and change the wheel. Worst case scenario, you had AAA come out and do it for you. But it wasn't a completely debilitating event that left you stranded overnight somewhere. It's a flat tire for God's sake... but it might as well be a blown alternator, fuel pump or otherwise - because the end result is equivalent - your're done if you're not within 50 miles of your destination, AND you still need to be carless after you've reached that destination at some point because you need professional assistance to mount a new tire.

So, yes it was my decision to miss out on a big chunk of the party I was hosting, because the alternative would have been a much worse situation. And I got completely lucky in finding a shop that was open, had the right tire, and was close enough for me to get to before they closed. The point? Manufacturers, like BMW, who are doing away with spare tires and claiming that runflats are a "solution" are completely wrong. A runflat tire is simply a means to get you a short distance - to a safe location to change the tire. But the fact remains, the tire needs to be changed. And thank you very much, but I prefer to have the ABILITY to change that tire myself with a spare - not be at the mercy of shop and tire availability.

[ezmaass]

Originally Posted by BMWrules7

I must agree that BMW implementation of run flats is totally inept.

Even today, I hear arguments that are well settled like, "run flats can be fixed"

BMW seems to be most concerned about green solutions these days.

Let me tell you, run flats are the farthest thing from green.

Run flats cannot be fixed. What a tremendous waste RFT technology is.

Anyone who says, "I fixed an RFT blah blah," is misguided. I concede that you can physically fix an RFT. But, the problem is that there is no way to track the number of miles in an RFTs deflated state. Hence, you are left with a completely useless rubber toroid---even when the tread is brand new.

Next, BMW has failed to adequately convey the risks involved with not having a spare.

Seriously, most people, when told their new car has no spare, really cannot grasp the total and utter inconvenience that is. Relying on RFTs means you can't travel anywhere on Sundays or holidays.

Plus, any damage to your wheel (prior) to RFTs was a trivial event as most bimmers had a full sized spare.

In short, RFTs have simply made it so your fancy bimmer can only be reliably used as a commuter vehicle. Only a fool would use a car solely equipped with RFTs for any kind of trip over 300 miles.


BMW has done nothing to equip its dealers with a viable solution to customers with flat tire. In fact, I do believe BMW has issued directives to its dealer network that it make flat fixing a high priority. But, it's still a PITA and as much as they make you feel you are a priority, but the center's local customers come first.

What could BMW do?

Embrace the fact the people don't want to wait half a day for Barny's Bucolic Bimmer flatbed to lose use of their car on a Sunday or Holiday because of a flat.

How hard could it be to make every BMW service center have a access to some kind of extremely large shed that stocks a wheel and tire that can fit on 90% of its cars? This way, the flatbed (or some other service---a dude in a pickup truck) can use the BMW assist database to quickly determine the type of wheel and tire needed by the customer, deliver it within 1 hour and get the customer on his way. The customers' defective wheel would serve as collateral thus avoiding payment problems. Yeah, the wheel may not match, but at least the customer can drive. For those customers with the big bucks, perhaps a service could be developed to swap all four wheels and tires to make sure they always match.

Hey, people thought FedEx was crazy before it took off.

Yes. Hit the nail on the head. Honestly, I've never thought about it - and I suspect not many owners do until they're trapped in this kind of situation. Most of us who have owned cars for a good length of time are used to simply changing a flat tire if it occurs - no big deal. Nobody likes it, but it's a minor inconvenience at best. Don't want to get your hands dirty? Call AAA and they'll send out some guy to do it for you.

But you're right in saying that BMW has failed to properly convey the risks involved with having no spare on-board. And yes, you're right in saying the car becomes only reliable as a commuter vehicle (assuming your commute is shorter than 50 miles). How could you take this car on a 300 mile road trip? What about cross country? Through stretches of interstate that have only small sleepy towns every 60 miles? No chance you're getting a fancy 19" $400 runflat tire in stock in those places - THAT'S for sure. Not only would you be waiting overnight for a shop to open, but chances are good you'd be waiting for a tire to be shipped in, as well.

Fact is, I never really thought about this situation much until this happened. But I'll say my eyes are open to it now. I can accept that s*** happens, and if it were a mechanical breakdown you'd grumble and get over it - and if it became systemic, you'd probably sell the car due to it being unreliable. But we're talking about a flat tire being a situation that has a good potential to strand you if you're more than just 50 miles from home - that's utterly ludicrous in our day and age.

[Alan l.]

So sorry to hear you had to go through that ordeal but your post reassured me that going with the spare tire option on my F15 X5 was the right choice. I too have a toddler and another baby on the way so being stranded like your situation would suck royally. It could also be dangerous depending on the situation.

Alan

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by BMWrules7

In short, RFTs have simply made it so your fancy bimmer can only be reliably used as a commuter vehicle. Only a fool would use a car solely equipped with RFTs for any kind of trip over 300 miles.

Get used to RFTs. Every manufacturer will be using them soon. The purpose of the RFT tire is the same as the "donut"; to save weight that can/needs to be used elsewhere. We all felt the same way when they came out with the space-saver spare. I've needed the spare twice (could be as high as 3) that I can remember in the last 40+ years of driving.

I must be a class-A fool... Been on 4 380+ mile drives (since I got the 535 3ish months ago), doing another this weekend and in a month or so will be taking a 2800 mile trip. I'm not at all concerned about getting a flat. I'm more concerned that the weather won't coöperate.

[ezmaass]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

Get used to RFTs. Every manufacturer will be using them soon. The purpose of the RFT tire is the same as the "donut"; to save weight that can/needs to be used elsewhere. We all felt the same way when they came out with the space-saver spare. I've needed the spare twice (could be as high as 3) that I can remember in the last 40+ years of driving.

I must be a class-A fool... Been on 4 380+ mile drives (since I got the 535 3ish months ago), doing another this weekend and in a month or so will be taking a 2800 mile trip. I'm not at all concerned about getting a flat. I'm more concerned that the weather won't coöperate.

If you have the M-Sport package with the 19" wheels and Goodyear LS2s, you should be concerned. If you think my post is an unusual event, please do some searching here. Blowouts with these tires are unusually frequent.

I never thought twice about taking long trips either - and I've driven BMWs for 15 years now, including my last which had RFTs. The Eagle LS2s, perhaps in combination with the 19" rim on the M-Sport package, is a combination with a very poor track record. I can't recall the last time I had a flat tire - MANY years. But I've now had two complete blowouts with this car in 16 months in under 10k miles of driving. Couple that with the numerous other posts you'll find about it here, and you should come to the conclusion that it's more than a coincidence.

I work from home, and when I do take the car somewhere it's usually a longer distance trip. I'm going to have to think hard about doing that in the future. Again, the problem is NOT the use of RFTs - that's fine - it's the belief that they're an acceptable substitute for a spare. The proper setup should be RFTs WITH a spare to ensure you're covered for short term issues (getting to your immediate destination) and long-term issues (being able to change the tire once there without reliance on external parties). And there's likely a problem with the OEM equipment - I just can't believe the high frequency of blowouts with these tires are proper.

[dblock2151]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

Get used to RFTs. Every manufacturer will be using them soon. The purpose of the RFT tire is the same as the "donut"; to save weight that can/needs to be used elsewhere. We all felt the same way when they came out with the space-saver spare. I've needed the spare twice (could be as high as 3) that I can remember in the last 40+ years of driving.

I must be a class-A fool... Been on 4 380+ mile drives (since I got the 535 3ish months ago), doing another this weekend and in a month or so will be taking a 2800 mile trip. I'm not at all concerned about getting a flat. I'm more concerned that the weather won't coöperate.

Knock on wood!

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by ezmaass

If you have the M-Sport package with the 19" wheels and Goodyear LS2s, you should be concerned.

Nope and yes. Non-M and LS2s. I am disappointed that BMW would put a Grand Touring tire on "The Ultimate Driving Machine"....

[The Beast]

Ezmass

If you were in your Audi you would most likely have been stranded and have to have left your car there or wait for a tow. So the RFT's got you to the party on time. Therefore I don't think that this is a BMW specific issue. As HP said in Europe many manufacturers who use non-RFT's are ditching spare wheels in favour of the type of kit you have in the Audi, for me this solution is worse than RFT's...

However I also agree that there should be a fall back option for users who experience a scenario like yours. To me there are two main points regarding your experience;

1 - LS2's are s**t
2 - BMW assist (at least in the USA) are s**t

An option to get a replacement temporary wheel within the hour would be the ideal scenario as mentioned by one user. This is something all manufacturers should work on collectivity, with insurers, so that the manufacturers breakdown assistance can get you on the way and let you take your old wheel with you. Then hand the wheel back to your local dealer within a specified time frame to avoid a claim by the manufacturer on your insurance.

[martin mustang]

How about this one, Merc went as far as reducing the gas tank in order to reduce the official CO2 emission due to when the test is carried out they have to have a full tank of gas! So they put a 40 litter tank as standard instead of a 70 or 65 litter one, a C Class with a tank of a Mini and give the option to upgrade back to a normal mid-size salon tank as an option, beat that in playing weight savings! C class drivers will have to put up with more visits to the Gas station on top of worrying about the run-flat tyres not making it!

The only think than piss me off with the F10 is the missing space under the boot floor to fit my space saver wheel, as to the run flat and weight saving I am for as our god dam politicians after taxing our gas up to 90%, In Ireland we get to pay a 2nd tax on purchase price so my 520d cost 60k Euros, so in other words screwed not by BMW but by politicians useless suckers looking for then exit victim to support their fat salaries doing jack.

To sums it up, it is the game played by all car makers, the chances it is an issue with all cars!

[HighlandPete]

I don't know how it works in the US, but over here in the UK if you run with BMW emergency cover there are options 24/7 for this sort of problem.

Worst case is BMW covering your overnight stay, if they can't get you on the road again, into a hire car and recover your vehicle to home/BMW dealer.

I've discussed this sort of weekend cover scenario with BMW, due to being in a remote location, with 'official' hire car companies being over 60 miles away and having difficulties getting into a car from Saturday pm until Monday.

I have a letter on file which show BMW support (via BMW Emergency) authorising hiring a car from a local convenient source and claiming back after the event.

There are ways around a problem that isn't going away, will get even worse as time passes and more manufacturers opt for less 'in car' spare wheel/mobility kits.

We may not like the options, or the inconvenience, we are all paying the price someway for cleaning up polluting emissions.

As to what is really green, that is a much bigger debate. Some would suggest if we were all still running E39 models (with their full size spare wheel), we'd be much greener than buying new cars. Get over 15 years service out of a car before we even think of replacing.

HighlandPete

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by The Beast

An option to get a replacement temporary wheel within the hour would be the ideal scenario as mentioned by one user. This is something all manufacturers should work on collectivity, with insurers, so that the manufacturers breakdown assistance can get you on the way and let you take your old wheel with you. Then hand the wheel back to your local dealer within a specified time frame to avoid a claim by the manufacturer on your insurance.

^^^^

This concept is being seriously looked at... here is one example being pioneered by the AA.

http://www.theaa.com/newsroom/news-2...are-wheel.html

Note in the text the 'spare' issue is not simply a BMW issue, but a growing issue for many motorists.

HighlandPete

[BMWrules7]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I don't know how it works in the US, but over here in the UK if you run with BMW emergency cover there are options 24/7 for this sort of problem.

Worst case is BMW covering your overnight stay, if they can't get you on the road again, into a hire car and recover your vehicle to home/BMW dealer.

I've discussed this sort of weekend cover scenario with BMW, due to being in a remote location, with 'official' hire car companies being over 60 miles away and having difficulties getting into a car from Saturday pm until Monday.

I have a letter on file which show BMW support (via BMW Emergency) authorising hiring a car from a local convenient source and claiming back after the event.

There are ways around a problem that isn't going away, will get even worse as time passes and more manufacturers opt for less 'in car' spare wheel/mobility kits.

We may not like the options, or the inconvenience, we are all paying the price someway for cleaning up polluting emissions.

As to what is really green, that is a much bigger debate. Some would suggest if we were all still running E39 models (with their full size spare wheel), we'd be much greener than buying new cars. Get over 15 years service out of a car before we even think of replacing.

HighlandPete

Aww c'mon Pete! Really? Book a freaking overnight hotel for a stinking flat?

Wife: I think I am in labor...the baby is coming. Can you believe we have a flat tire?
Husband: the hospital is 101 miles away. There is a hotel a mile before the hospital. BMW will pay us to stay there overnight. We will go to the hospital tomorrow after our flat is fixed.

Y'all are too polite. In the states, we are a tad bit too busy even on vacation to be detouring to a motel because of a stupid flat tire.

To be honest, I really don't care that this spare issue affects other manufacturers. I am a loyal BMW customer. I really don't care what merc does.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by BMWrules7

Aww c'mon Pete! Really? Book a freaking overnight hotel for a stinking flat?

Y'all are too polite. In the states, we are a tad bit too busy even on vacation to be detouring to a motel because of stupid flat tire.

I think we need to widen out the thinking to the typical BMW driver these days.

I come from an era, like many here, we fix things ourselves, are prepared to get on with it and keep motoring.

But when you think about it, many these days don't check tire pressure, don't check oil levels, in fact don't 'lift the hood' at all. Change a tire! I don't think so.

Folks are now calling out emergency services to change a wheel, (if they have one), so the idea of recovery to hotel, garage, home is coming part of the thinking if there is any issue. BMW and the like are simply accommodating the thinking of the mass market, as I see it.

I'd guess BMW have analysed the costs and it is cheaper to support an emergency situation - rare or not - rather than have millions of cars carrying spare wheels and all the penalties that puts on the business model, the fight to comply with mpg and emissions targets.

In Europe BMW have to meet targets, or there are huge penalties.

I say all this, but would still like a spare wheel under the floor, but don't see much hope of that ever happening again.

HighlandPete