[K-A]

First off I'll get past the 640i vs Panamera and CLS550 as I drove that recently as well.

CLS550 is simply outclassed in every which way from the 640i GC. Even with the power increase, it doesn't feel as sharp and nowhere near as direct and sporty as the GC. The GC is a well oiled machine that has a balance the Mercedes can't rival, IMO.

The Panamera being a V6 version is an unfair comparison VS the CLS due to a power compromise as well, however in this case the Panny's drivetrain being so subpar to the GC's N55/ZF8 combo that the drivetrain lacking became a burden and I think underwhelmed the entire experience. The Panny has maybe the most tank-like, robust chassis I've ever experienced. The car literally feels like it's carved from a single piece of granite.... more-so than any BMW or Mercedes I've driven, I think, however the Auto tranny is terrible, and the engine sounds like any boring ole' tired V6. When I nailed the gas, I felt like I was driving my Mom's Lexus, and I had every Sport Option ticked on. The tranny sits there for like 5 seconds trying to generate the energy to get in gear and respond to your call for brute energy, you hear it downshift and "prepare", then it goes. The power on the car feels lacking as well, much more so than the 535i and 640i, however I think a lot has to do with the transmission (Note: NOT a PDK, it was the normal Auto). I could not find one moment where the transmission and engine responded immediately and like a scalpel, which I find any N55/ZF combo will do when in Sport Mode (to note I'm comparing this to Sport Auto Tranny cars which give them much more edge).

Overall, the Panamera as a chassis is very impressive, steering was nice and responsive, but the drivetrain felt tired and "old". The V6 made funny noises when the A/C was putting load on it, it sounded weak at full throttle, the HVAC for that matter made odd noises here and there. Also, the car feels GIGANTIC (and is gigantic). However I'm one of those who thinks the Panamera in the right setup looks beautiful from the outside.

6GC M Sport with every Option on it VS 535i M Sport with Sport Auto & Options in my Sig:

First off, let me ask: Does anyone know if the '13 F10's have that AWESOME feature where the Extended Panel Display shows the current speed limit on a digital sign? I found it very beneficial.

I thought that like the inferiorly engineered CLS's headroom which is un-livable for a guy my height (6'4 with long torso), I'd be cramped in the GC as well. Wrong. BMW sure knows how to engineer in multi facets. The GC had MORE headroom than my F10 which is something as I feel the F10's headroom is sometimes approaching too tight for me as well, unfortunately. I've had to move my seat around a lot and really put the backrest down to ensure my head wouldn't get pummeled in the event of an accident as it's practically rubbing against the roof when I sit up straight.

On that subject, the 6 GC sits VERY low (the drivers seat, not the chassis as that actually is higher off the ground than the F10, I'll get to that in a second). You feel like you're in a real sports car, however it's so large around you that you kind of feel like you've shrunken and are sitting in a kids seat or something. The interior does wrap around you nicely, however it feels MASSIVE, like a boat almost, more-so than the F10. You really sit *IN* the Gran Coupe. I gotta say I prefer the F10's interior. I appreciate the stateliness of it and the wood on the dash is more appealing to me. Little things that matter to me, like the thickness and rake of the A Pillar on the F10 I think is ideal and very aesthetically pleasing. I found the of 6-Series' thin/short A Pillar and very slanted rake to look kind of funny and "un-sexy" from the inside. Odd I know, but I see things like this. Also, I like the more sensually exaggerated Hofmeister Kink on the F10 from the interior view as it looks really sporty, the GCG's "kink" isn't as pronounced. More weird OCD personal-preference things from me.

DRIVE: I felt "there's no way the G6 will feel sportier than the F10". Let's face it, some of the chassis modifications are inherently inferior: Same wheelbase however longer ONLY through increased overhangs. Not good as it's "artificial length" and loses the F10's best-in-business 117" wheelbase to 192" overall length proportions. The GC most importantly weighs even MORE than the F10, and also, the chassis of the F10 is lower to the ground, thus giving it superior drag coefficient....

.... Well, BMW took those inherent comparative flaws and compensated in many ways, clearly, as the car feels more connected and sportier than the F10. The steering feels far more "classically BMW" as it is very direct, and just pivots the car around fluidly instead of the F10's steering which comparatively "pushes" the car around. And that's coming from a guy who loves the F10's steering feel for a Luxury/Sport Sedan.

The 6GC I feel is a case of platform that's very compromised (the F10 platform is unmatchable as a Luxury Car IMO, but "compromised" in terms of inherent sporting dynamics) given how it is an F10 with more bloat, added non-functional size (all in the overhangs), less aero, higher center of gravity, however worked hard on to feel very light, very nimble despite being huge around you. It is simply sportier than the F10, although at the same time very similar. The balance is incredible as is the F10's, however "dialed more toward sportiness without sacrificing luxury".... while I feel the F10 is "dialed more towards luxury without sacrificing sport". One thing I will note about it is that the chassis feels stiffer and more strewn together on the 6 GC than on the F10. Maybe it's because it's a different/brand new car which plays tricks on the mind but if it's true, it says a lot as the F10's chassis is pretty "granite" itself. The 6GC felt "tomb-like" in its quietness and solidity, even with the frameless doors, which is impressive.

The F10 is a more soothing environment, more comfortable interior setup, I like the slightly higher seating position. Overall, I like driving the F10 more as my preferences are still weighed toward stately luxury as well as sportiness.

On the subject of FUN: This one's a mixed bag. Firstly, the 6 GC is clearly more fun, more nimble, dialed in as a "scalpel". The thing that makes the F10 so fun to me though is the torque. I can roast my tires in the F10 with ease even in Comfort. In Sport + I can get sideways, it feels like a Muscle Car. The 640i GC perhaps by design CANNOT BURN RUBBER. I tried everything I could, and it wouldn't "peel out" nearly like my F10 535i can. Is it the weight? The N55HP being less low end torquey maybe? Or simply because BMW designed it to not burn out so it would be a better technical performer in races?

As for POWER: Magazine tests show the 640i GC even with its "15" more horsepower than the 535i gets considerably slower 1/4 miles and 0-60 times than the 535i. Simply put, the HP "increase" doesn't outweigh the fact that the GC is much heavier than even the 535i. I feel this is accurate in the real world as well. While the 640i felt more nimble, I felt like the 535i is a "faster" car even if very slightly.

With the 640i GC, you point the car, hit the gas, it bogs down like it wants to ensure grip before taking off, then just goes. With the 535i SAT, you point, hit the gas, the tires spin and then catch, then it goes. This is how my car acted VS this 640i GC when both are in Sport +.

THINGS I HATED: The Stick-Up iDrive. HATED IT!. Firstly, I thought the graphics were dimmer than my F10's. Turns out, they aren't.... it's the horrendous GLARE that was washing out the screen. The F10 to me has a dash that looks more thoughtful, integrated and luxurious, even though the 6GC's leather/stitchings go a long way.

Also, I prefer the F10's door panels, with the wood/aluminum as the GC's look a little more "plain" IMO.

My biggest beef though is with the door panels being unfinished at the ends therefore exposing bare painted metal in between them and the interior B Pillar trim. The new F30 does that as well and it looks horrid. Like an old Pickup Truck or cheap American Car (even then I think they have covered up metal in between the panel and B Pillar trim these days). Not befitting of a Luxury Marquee who's 6 Series is so well finished and refined in every other way.

All in all, the 640i GC is a class act, a distinct character from the F10 yet very similar at the same time. I feel it's not an "F10 done better", just an "F10 done different".

On a side note: I had seat time with an F30 and am increasingly turned off by how cheap and kind of childlike the interior is in it. Not only does it have that exposed metal next to the door panel like I said, but you almost get the impression you have recycle-bin plastics at your fingertips. Also, the new M Sport Steering wheel if it's anything like the one the F10 LCI is getting, IMO is a downgrade in tactile quality. It's a more fun and interesting design, however feels and looks more "kiddish", and has some VERY hard and cheap plastics whereas the current M Sport steering wheel is all soft touch, and nice. The buttons on the current one are also nice and have a nice "click" sound and heft to them. The new steering wheel I found to have chintzier buttons with a cheaper "click" sound. Maybe I'm crazy but I wasn't so impressed.

So there you have it. My book of a review. I wrote it in one take and it is a long run-on, so don't judge me too harshly.

[SamS]

Originally Posted by K-A

First off, let me ask: Does anyone know if the '13 F10's have that AWESOME feature where the Extended Panel Display shows the current speed limit on a digital sign? I found it very beneficial.

Yes, this is available on MY2013 (and '14) F10 cars, it's called Speed Limit Info, option 8TH. It's available as part of the Driver Assistance Plus package. What you really need to experience is the speed limit 'sign' displayed in the HUD next to your real-time speed. Very handy!

I have this feature on my F30 ActiveHybrid 3 and enjoy it quite a bit. I didn't think I would find it useful before I purchased, but now I really miss it when I get in a car without it.

[K-A]

Ahh, I don't have the D.A.P. That would explain it.

[buildbright]

I found the CLS550 to be such a better driving car then the 640GC. The power and handling are better not to mention the price. 20k cheaper as tested.

[grimlock]

Some interesting insights for sure, esp f10 vs 6GC
Maybe the 640i is not a good idea, the V8TT is more optimal
Funny I swapped out the rear springs on my F10 and suddenly remembered what a boat-on-stilts the car is

[K-A]

Originally Posted by buildbright

I found the CLS550 to be such a better driving car then the 640GC. The power and handling are better not to mention the price. 20k cheaper as tested.

IMO it felt like a $20K cheaper car. Yes the power was brutal, but the whole chassis and transmission just felt like it was holding that great engine back. When I got drove my 535i again after the CLS I felt like I got back into a more expensive car well-dialed-in car, and the 6GC felt a lot more "exotic" to me than the CLS. I didn't feel much character difference in the CLS VS the W212 E Class it's based on. The lacking power wasn't really an issue as the N55/ZF8 combo especially in the 6GC is just "sharp", while I found the TT V8/7G Tronic in the CLS to just feel "mushier" as Benzes usually do.... however when you floored it, the CLS pulled so hard it literally gave me a headache.

grimlock:I felt that *driving wise* the 6 GC is certainly not worth its price increase from the 5 Series, however that's coming from me who might prefer the F10's slightly higher seating position and more "calming" interior. If you want a sportier seating position and a more exotically setup car, the 6 GC is all for you.

The steering of the 6GC I feel really should "fix" problems BMW purists have with the F10's steering, as it is just very fluid and connected. The feel of it was great. My biggest beef with the 640GC's drive was that although more nimble, it felt a little "slower" than my 535i, and especially unfortunate was the fact that perhaps due to the extra weight, I couldn't get the rear wheels loose at all. Magazine Tests on the GC show it being about 3-4 tenths and 3-4 MPH slower than the 535i in 1/4 mile times, which seemed like it made sense.

Then again, the car I drove was getting wailed on all day, to take into consideration.

If you're looking for a sportier drive, the 6GC will answer your wishes. However, I wish BMW engineered its characteristics into a more functionally/fundamentally superior chassis setup on the F10, i.e lighter, shorter overhangs, lower center of gravity, better aero, etc. It would have been the PERFECT 4-Door Sports Sedan, as I already think the F10 is, though less on the sport side with a higher emphasis of softness.

[Alan l.]

Funny I was just about to post my experience with a 650GC compared to my Msport 13' 535xi and then i saw your thread

I'll give a quick summary of my thoughts on the car after I had it for the weekend (put 800 miles on it lol)

Power
OMG this car is a BEAST. The 450hp from this engine is faster than anything i've ever driven including my tuned 335i. There is just power everywhere with plenty to spare. Mid range torque sucks you into the seat to the point you have trouble lifting your head back off it under full throttle. I am extremely envious of you 550 guys especially the 14's LCI's with the same motor as the GC. I took the car on a long weekend trip with the family and i managed to average 23mpg during the whole 800 mile journey. Not bad considering the power you have on tap. The only thing i did notice that was a negative with this car compared to mine is there is a significant lag off the line before it takes off like its been rear ended by a train. If i floored it from dead stop the rpms would jump up but the car wouldn't really take off until it hits about 2700 rpm. I tried this over and over again even in Sport+ mode and no matter how hard you mash it off the line it takes a second before it really rockets off where as my 535 is pretty much instant. (650GC wins)

Sound
I'm not entire sure if the GC has that active sound thing that the M5 does but all i know is that it sounds amazing when you step on it. Very nice deep throaty sound you'd expect from a V8 beast. I suspect it does have the active sound because when you free rev the motor its pretty much silent. (650GC wins)

Interior
When i first got into the GC i really disliked everything about it. The seats looked nice but did not feel nearly as comfortable as my comfort seats. It took me awhile to find a comfortable driving position and it still can't compare. This car does not have any extended leather options from what I could tell and it can't hold a handle next my nappa equipped F10. I just don't see anything in this car where it warrants the extra cash over a 550 besides maybe the alcantara headliner which is nice. The rear seat and headroom is much tighter and extremely lacking compared to the F10. I had to move my baby seat into the GC and it was a very tight fit. You can't even put a convertible baby seat facing backwards on the side without moving the front seats all the way up where it isn't usable anymore. You can put it in the center but then don't expect anyone to be able to sit in the back seats for longer than 15mins. The F10 feels like a limo in comparison here. Entering and exiting the rear also requires some skills on the GC. Another thing about the GC that was surprising was rear view mirror visibility is very poor. I guess with the way they designed the sloping rear end I should have expected it but was shocked when i actually got into the drivers seat and noticed my rear view is now less than half of what it is in my F10. I also found where they placed the rear view mirror to be obstructing my forward visibility as well. (F10 wins)

Navigation
I too hated the ipad looking nav screen. A lot more glare and much hard to see during the day time. For some reason the nav in this car wasn't nearly as fast as the one in my 13 F10. I am pretty sure the 13GC got the same nav upgrade as my car but I found it being confused a lot and very slow to re-route you. Another thing i noticed that with my car I can zoom in to 40' view but in the GC I can only go to 100. Not a huge deal. The nav delay was by far the most annoying thing in this car. (F10 wins)

Handling
Without a doubt BMW fixed the soft handling issue with the GC and if the LCI F10s get this update you will be in for a treat. This car handles much flatter and firmer than my car even with ACS springs, DDC and M5 front sway bar. Steering feels like a traditional BMW and felt very connected to the road. This car was on 19" RFTs and it did feel a little rough on pothole filled roads but you can't have it both ways. Comfort setting in the GC feels almost like the Sport setting in my F10. Sports setting in the GC is like my Sports setting but kicked up a few notches. Normally i can't stand driving my car in comfort or comfort+ modes but in the GC it feels like my normal mode and it is more livable for me. (650GC wins)

Exterior
I know this is subjective but prior to me getting this GC i thought it was the best looking BMW hands down to date. My GC was in Msport trim and was the same exact color combo as my Msport F10 Space Grey/Black. I actually prefer my car over the GC after having it for the weekend. The back end is my favorite part of the car and it is def. a head turner. I had numerous people talk to be about the car all weekend so obvious its a crowd favorite but for me i like the meatier chunkier stance of the F10. One thing i do noticed is that with the GC you really need 20" wheels to set it off. The 19" M351 wheels just doesn't look right on it. (F10 wins for me)

Overall I do not feel the GC Msport is worth the 20K+ premium over a well optioned 550Msport. Nothing inside makes you feel like you are in more premium car and the exterior is subjective. Its one hell of a car and handles like a Bmw should but for me I rather be driving a M5 for the same price tag no question.

Alan

[Bandiano]

IMHO anyone who thinks the panamera or for that matter the cayenne is a good looking piece of engineering needs a swift trip to the opticians, it amazes me how little imagination the Porsche designers have...or maybe there aren't any designers that do anything other than stretches and tweaks to an age old shape

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by K-A

IMO it felt like a $20K cheaper car. Yes the power was brutal, but the whole chassis and transmission just felt like it was holding that great engine back. When I got drove my 535i again after the CLS I felt like I got back into a more expensive car well-dialed-in car, and the 6GC felt a lot more "exotic" to me than the CLS. I didn't feel much character difference in the CLS VS the W212 E Class it's based on. The lacking power wasn't really an issue as the N55/ZF8 combo especially in the 6GC is just "sharp", while I found the TT V8/7G Tronic in the CLS to just feel "mushier" as Benzes usually do.... however when you floored it, the CLS pulled so hard it literally gave me a headache.

grimlock:I felt that *driving wise* the 6 GC is certainly not worth its price increase from the 5 Series, however that's coming from me who might prefer the F10's slightly higher seating position and more "calming" interior. If you want a sportier seating position and a more exotically setup car, the 6 GC is all for you.

The steering of the 6GC I feel really should "fix" problems BMW purists have with the F10's steering, as it is just very fluid and connected. The feel of it was great. My biggest beef with the 640GC's drive was that although more nimble, it felt a little "slower" than my 535i, and especially unfortunate was the fact that perhaps due to the extra weight, I couldn't get the rear wheels loose at all. Magazine Tests on the GC show it being about 3-4 tenths and 3-4 MPH slower than the 535i in 1/4 mile times, which seemed like it made sense.

Then again, the car I drove was getting wailed on all day, to take into consideration.

If you're looking for a sportier drive, the 6GC will answer your wishes. However, I wish BMW engineered its characteristics into a more functionally/fundamentally superior chassis setup on the F10, i.e lighter, shorter overhangs, lower center of gravity, better aero, etc. It would have been the PERFECT 4-Door Sports Sedan, as I already think the F10 is, though less on the sport side with a higher emphasis of softness.

I have to disagree. The CLS seats just hug you in ways the Gran Coupe doesn't. The engine, throttle response, and steering is amazing in sport mode. It glides over the road and builds confidence at higher speeds. The LEDs and AMG wheels make the car look stunning.

Now the CLS has its faults. The AC controls, Commander, lack of HUD. But overall I feel like I am driving a much nicer car. The Gran Coupe just feels way over priced when the 5 Series gives you so much of the same for less.

What I learned most from driving these cars is I am not a luxo-barge person. The cars feel to big and I am not ready to give up all my sportiness yet.

[K-A]

Originally Posted by buildbright

I have to disagree. The CLS seats just hug you in ways the Gran Coupe doesn't. The engine, throttle response, and steering is amazing in sport mode. It glides over the road and builds confidence at higher speeds. The LEDs and AMG wheels make the car look stunning.

Now the CLS has its faults. The AC controls, Commander, lack of HUD. But overall I feel like I am driving a much nicer car. The Gran Coupe just feels way over priced when the 5 Series gives you so much of the same for less.

What I learned most from driving these cars is I am not a luxo-barge person. The cars feel to big and I am not ready to give up all my sportiness yet.

I guess we have much different impressions then. The CLS to me just didn't feel "complete", and very held back. I'm also very against the styling with all the wayward crashing lines which distract from what should be a sensual profile. I think it drove like a great car, but I thought it felt inferior to my 535i as a whole, and had waaaay too many cheap interior carryover bits from the E Class interior which are big downgrades from the F10 interior bits, and of course the archaic technology/screen, etc.

The Gran Coupe really feels "complete" which I like. However, the biggest threat to the Gran Coupe to me is the F10. It doesn't feel or look like a cheaper car necessarily, when optioned out right, at least. Of course, it isn't as exotic as the 6 GC is, which right there is where the price increase mostly comes from.

[ibimmer954]

I recently leased a new 650i GC after having leased a 535i for the last three years. I'd like to give my opinion of my testing experience. I really wanted to stay in the BMW family, but kick the experience up a notch from my 535i. I tested the M5 and 640i GC since they were similar in price. I was biased toward the 6-series going in just to have something different.

First, I drove the M5. Was really looking forward to the experience. And sure enough, it drove like an M car. I own an E46 M3, so I kinda knew what to expect. It's a lot bolder and a lot louder. Of course, the power was off the charts. But to be quite honest, power wasn't a huge priority for my daily driver. You can't really put a lot of power to use when driving in traffic.

The seats in the M5 are amazing. I had the 5-series comfort seats before, but the M5 seats are a whole new level of comfort. And they hold you into the seat better without sacrificing comfort. I also liked the interior slightly better than my 535i. Nicer leather, better gauges, cooler HUD.

But I had 2 major issues with the M5. First was the handling. The suspension, tranny, and steering were set at middle settings. I'm taking the M5 through some twisties and the handling felt really familiar. The body roll is still there from my 535i! Sure the M5 can do the turns, but there's something about body roll that gives me less of a solid, sporty feel while driving. I was really expecting the handling to be much more dialed in on the M5 and it just wasn't there for me. Sure I could have locked the suspension to the 'hard' setting, but I was hoping I wouldn't have to do that.

The other major issue was the tranny. I couldn't drive the DCT smoothly. I'm sure with more practice I would get better at it, but the combination of the engine turning off at stops and the harsh pickup of the DCT, I just could not launch the car smoothly.

The steering on the M5 was different. But not necessarily better. There's more road feel with the M-Servotronic compared to the 535i. And the lack of RFTs really helps as well. But I actually found the steering a little annoying in that there was lots of vibration coming through the wheel. But it still didn't have the amazing road feel of my E46 M3.

Then I test drove an M-Sport 640i. To me, the power felt pretty close to my 535i as it should. The engines are very similar. Whatever extra power the 640i is lost to the extra size of the car. But more importantly, the handling is whole different league. The 6GC is much lower than the 5 and the handling wins. There's just no body roll in this car. Much more dialed-in, more sport, less luxury. I eventually figured out one huge difference after I got home. The roof level is 3 inches lower than the F10. 3 inches! As a matter of fact, the roof line on the 6GC within an inch of my E46 M3.

Plus the 8-speed auto is wonderful in that car. I had the 6MT in my 535i, so I hadn't really experienced that 8AT. I must say I really like that tranny compared to the DCT in the M5.

The 6GC also features servotronic steering. I liked this version better than the M5. There was a little less "feel" than the M5. But that probably had to do with the RFT tires. But the overall handling improvements of the 6GC were amplified by the fabulous steering.

There are two things I don't like about the 6GC. First, the car is harder to get in and get out. But I guess that's the price of having a lower car. Better handling, but worse ingress/egress. Also, the seats on the 6GC are not as comfy as the standard 5 comfort seats and not even close to the M5 wonderful seats. I guess that's because the 6GC features a convertible interior since it shares the same seats as the other 6s. Less padding on the seats overall.

I was all ready to get the 640i. But the dealer had a 650i on the lot optioned almost exactly how I would have liked. Only missing the Active Steering which I would have added. The best part is the color combination: Ruby Black/Platinum Merino leather. Combined with the leather dash. Believe me, that combination kicks up the luxury to a whole new level compared to my 535i.

The 650i engine is quite a handful. Again, I can't really use the power on public streets. But I admit using it even a little puts a big smile on my face. The sound is a lot different than the I6. Much growlier. More aggressive. But I like the sound of a smooth I6 (like my E46 M3). When I want to pass on the highway, put the tranny in sport mode and punch the gas. I go from 55mph to 95mph faster than I can imagine. Even in this large car. It's unreal.

I'm happy with my purchase of the 650i GC over the M5. For me, it was a much better fit. The F06 chasis tilts the lux vs. sport equation more firmly toward sport than the F10. I read stories about people changing the springs and lowering their car to getting better sport out of the F10. BMW has already done that for you on the 6GC and you don't have to modify it to get there.

[Boulder Bill]

Great review ibimmer. Thanks.

[hyperboost]

great review guys!
the thing that disappoints me about the 6GC is the price. IMHO, it's way too much. Fully loaded 640GC is not that far from a loaded M5.......

[ibimmer954]

I agree the pricing of the 6GC is a little out there. I think the only reason they did that is to make it more "exclusive". Or maybe they did it because it is a much sexier car than the F10 (IMHO) and they think silly people like me will pay the premium. They certainly hooked me in. The M6 GC is going to be even better but I really couldn't justify the extra cost in my mind. The 650i already has way more power than I really need.

[Krash7172]

Great thread. Thanks guys! I had a 640i years ago and I currently have a 2011 535i X M sport. Love my 5. My lease is up in 4 months and I'm torn between another or a 640GC X Msport.

[Alan l.]

I drove the 650GC Msport this morning to work and the way this thing handles reminds of of my old E46 which is a good and bad thing. Razor sharp handling, excellent brakes (seems better than my 535) but when it hits bumps it is pretty jarring in Sport mode. I am a sport mode kind of guy but even I think sport mode in the GC is a bit much for daily driving.

Well all this fun will come to an end later today when i swap loaners from a 650 to a bare bones 528

Alan