[J-Raid]

Word came down the pipe that BMW is looking to replace their 3.0 liter natural aspirated engine in the F10 BMW 528i with a four-cylinder turbocharged powerplant. The exchange is rumored to take place this summer when the new 528i will also be available in the United States with the xDrive option.

These news come shortly after today’s report by Automobile Magazine that BMW Z4 sDrive30i will receive the four-cylinder engine and change its naming convention in the North American market.

According to our sources, the 528i with xDrive was delayed due to the addition of the four-cylinder turbo.

If indeed BMW goes down the route of “28i” models powered by four-cylinder units, then we expect the next generation 3 Series and its 328i model to feature the same or a new four-cylinder engine. The move is somewhat expected, especially since BMW’s premium competitor Mercedes-Benz is introducing more four-cylinder powerplants in their US line-up. http://www.bmwblog.com/2011/01/12/bm...ive-in-the-us/

As a guy seeking to buy the 528i (or 530i?), probably in early 2012, I'm really interested on this.

So...Comments, info,...?

PS: I'm on mixed emotions, as probably are most here. As a mechanical engineer, I'm all for downsizing, for getting better fuel economy and low-end torque... and also reducing weight (something especially important in the 'fat' F10), but as I currently drive a 6-cyl bimmer, I'm so much in love with it's smoothness and sound...

PS2: In fact in terms of vibrations, 6-cylinders are inherently better than 4-cylinders in-line, due to their architecture and phase piston timing. In fact, of the middle-sized engines, 6 in-lines are only beaten by boxer engines, which are too rare in the market anyway (only Subaru and Porsche)

[mlai]

Wow! We will all be driving a Mini in disguise!

[LuvMyE92]

Nothing against the V8 fans here (I'm one as well) but I think the I6 is what defines the BMW cars and I'd hate to see it go. Regular gas is now well over $3/gallon in this market though, and I have no doubt it will continue to go up as the world economy improves.

BTW, I know the OP was referring to cars, but BMW does make a boxer engine for its motorcycles (yeah, got one of those too).

[Lost-Again]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

Nothing against the V8 fans here (I'm one as well) but I think the I6 is what defines the BMW cars and I'd hate to see it go. Regular gas is now well over $3/gallon in this market though, and I have no doubt it will continue to go up as the world economy improves.

BTW, I know the OP was referring to cars, but BMW does make a boxer engine for its motorcycles (yeah, got one of those too).

When you get to $8 a gallon as we are you will clearly see the case for small and efficient and why BMW has to change, or sell no cars in the EU...

[Grover432]

200 hp???? A bit weak don't you think?

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by Lost-Again

When you get to $8 a gallon as we are you will clearly see the case for small and efficient and why BMW has to change, or sell no cars in the EU...

This makes little sense to me. There are lots of small cars on the market, including some fairly upscale ones. There are also lots of efficient cars on the market, at least in the EU. Many of them are diesel fueled. It's going to take some heavy marketing to persuade buyers of mid-size, € 60K -and-up cars that four cylinders in two tons of car add up to luxury.

[x6er]

I also am waiting for the xdrive version of the 528i...if they make it a 4c, I am going 535i...don't like the turbo 6, but way better than the turbo 4...BMW is going the wrong way with the 5 series, save the 4's to the one and 3's... also, they tweaked the engine to 240 bhp only to sell few cars, then go with the 4c, unlikely...I would say this is a R&D no more.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by raleedy

This makes little sense to me. There are lots of small cars on the market, including some fairly upscale ones. There are also lots of efficient cars on the market, at least in the EU. Many of them are diesel fueled. It's going to take some heavy marketing to persuade buyers of mid-size, € 60K -and-up cars that four cylinders in two tons of car add up to luxury.

But it is already happening, the 520d (in Europe) is THE seller. The UK will probably see somewhere around 70% of F10/11 users in the small diesel. Buyer's choice, as it is sensible motoring.

Many would 'like' a bigger engine, but price, taxation, fuel costs dictate.

HighlandPete

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by raleedy

This makes little sense to me.

That's because you're an American. The USA and maybe Abu Dhabi are the only places where people buy these ridiculous huge cars with gobs and gobs of horsepower that they don't need nor rarely use. As "Lost-Again" says, our opinions will change when we see $8/gallon gas.

Now - don't get me wrong, I'm an American and damn proud of it, dammit, and I want my horsepower and my luxury and I'm going to continue squandering our world's resources just as fast as I can, like any good red-blooded American. Until I can't afford to anymore, then I'm buying a Chevy Volt.

(but I'll always have my M5)

[Touring]

I checked out this site:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/energyexplain...=oil_home#tab2

It says USA uses 378 000 000 gallons of "motor gasoline" every day, which will be
1 37 970 000 000 gallons every year. If they put one dollar (or even 5 dollars as in Europe) gasoline tax per gallon, that will really do something with the budget deficit. I guess sooner or later they have to tax gasoline more in the USA too before you end up like Ireland, Greece, Iceland etc.

[ipso_facto]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

But it is already happening, the 520d (in Europe) is THE seller. The UK will probably see somewhere around 70% of F10/11 users in the small diesel. Buyer's choice, as it is sensible motoring.

Many would 'like' a bigger engine, but price, taxation, fuel costs dictate.

HighlandPete

Agreed. That percentage will only get higher in the UK, especially when, as is initimated in other threads that the twin turbo 2.0d will also be coming to the 5 series.

The stats of the F10 520d are amazing. What model of executive class car can boast that the smallest engine in the range will; (i) do 0-60mph in a little over 8 seconds and (ii) is capable of twice the legal UK motorway speed limit. The former I engage occasionally, the latter, I never want to test, as I like my driving licence, my job and not being heavily fined !! Oh yeah, it will do 550 to 600 miles on a tank too.

If you have plenty of spare cash, or an easy going attitude to credit, I can understand the appeal of the bigger engine models. I personally think that it's a case of "diminishing returns", in terms of pleasure, or in other words, I'm confident that I get as much pleasure out of my 520d as others with a 535d or 550. Just stating my personal feeling here, as "pleasure" is obviously a subjective emotion.

In regards fuel costs: the way I see it, there is only one direction. And that is upwards. I saw our prime minister on TV yesterday, he was empathising and sympathising with drivers fueling their cars (although he used the carefully chosen political euphemism "families", which makes his sentiments seem so much nicer ). But you know what, he commited absolutely nothing to address the rising fuel costs, which are two-thirds tax in the UK. I think this is going to be the future for other advanced economies in the not too distant future, especially those burdened with large national debt ratios that need to be "tackled" (I can use euphemisms too ).

[gorban]

Originally Posted by ipso_facto

Agreed. That percentage will only get higher in the UK, especially when, as is initimated in other threads that the twin turbo 2.0d will also be coming to the 5 series.

The stats of the F10 520d are amazing. What model of executive class car can boast that the smallest engine in the range will; (i) do 0-60mph in a little over 8 seconds and (ii) is capable of twice the legal UK motorway speed limit. The former I engage occasionally, the latter, I never want to test, as I like my driving licence, my job and not being heavily fined !! Oh yeah, it will do 550 to 600 miles on a tank too.

If you have plenty of spare cash, or an easy going attitude to credit, I can understand the appeal of the bigger engine models. I personally think that it's a case of "diminishing returns", in terms of pleasure, or in other words, I'm confident that I get as much pleasure out of my 520d as others with a 535d or 550. Just stating my personal feeling here, as "pleasure" is obviously a subjective emotion.

In regards fuel costs: the way I see it, there is only one direction. And that is upwards. I saw our prime minister on TV yesterday, he was empathising and sympathising with drivers fueling their cars (although he used the carefully chosen political euphemism "families", which makes his sentiments seem so much nicer ). But you know what, he commited absolutely nothing to address the rising fuel costs, which are two-thirds tax in the UK. I think this is going to be the future for other advanced economies in the not too distant future, especially those burdened with large national debt ratios that need to be "tackled" (I can use euphemisms too ).

Agree, although I wouldn't say no to an F11 535dM

[grimlock]

This would make sense in rationalizing the current petrol lineup:
EU NA+world
523i 3.0na DI / 2.5na
528i 3.0na DI / 3.0na
535i 3.0T / =
550i 4.4TT / =

Why does the 523i still get the 3.0 N53 DI?
It makes sense if it were to be replaced with a 4cyl with turbo, as mercedes does with its 180/200/250 engines which all use the same 1.8l turbo.

I guess theyre going to use the 2.0l ..think they might go with 525i for the new engine and keep 530i for the N53 at the 2yr update? The N55 could grow to 540i .. this allows the N53 to stay useful..

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

But it is already happening, the 520d (in Europe) is THE seller. The UK will probably see somewhere around 70% of F10/11 users in the small diesel. Buyer's choice, as it is sensible motoring.

Many would 'like' a bigger engine, but price, taxation, fuel costs dictate.

HighlandPete

I think I was unclear in my comment. I'd love for the 520d to be available in the US — but not at the expense of the N54 engine.

[Touring]

They should remove the petrol 4 cylinders from the F10, but keep the gasoline sixes and V8 with and without turbos, but still be offering the four-and six dielsels.

So if you want to save money you buy a diesel, and if you want to have fun you buy a Gasoline

[indus]

Originally Posted by ipso_facto

Agreed. That percentage will only get higher in the UK, especially when, as is initimated in other threads that the twin turbo 2.0d will also be coming to the 5 series.

The stats of the F10 520d are amazing. What model of executive class car can boast that the smallest engine in the range will; (i) do 0-60mph in a little over 8 seconds and (ii) is capable of twice the legal UK motorway speed limit. The former I engage occasionally, the latter, I never want to test, as I like my driving licence, my job and not being heavily fined !! Oh yeah, it will do 550 to 600 miles on a tank too.

If you have plenty of spare cash, or an easy going attitude to credit, I can understand the appeal of the bigger engine models. I personally think that it's a case of "diminishing returns", in terms of pleasure, or in other words, I'm confident that I get as much pleasure out of my 520d as others with a 535d or 550. Just stating my personal feeling here, as "pleasure" is obviously a subjective emotion.

In regards fuel costs: the way I see it, there is only one direction. And that is upwards. I saw our prime minister on TV yesterday, he was empathising and sympathising with drivers fueling their cars (although he used the carefully chosen political euphemism "families", which makes his sentiments seem so much nicer ). But you know what, he commited absolutely nothing to address the rising fuel costs, which are two-thirds tax in the UK. I think this is going to be the future for other advanced economies in the not too distant future, especially those burdened with large national debt ratios that need to be "tackled" (I can use euphemisms too ).

Pleasure as you say is subjective. Though the majority of 5s sold will be a 520d I would never buy one. To me there is little pleasure driving such a slow car. To me its also not a case of diminishing returns either, a 520d may well be a nice car but a 535d is a different beast. 2.3 seconds faster to 60 is not a small amount.
For example the difference between a £60K Porsche and a £100k Porsche may only be 1.5 seconds.

Horses for courses and all that.....

[ipso_facto]

Originally Posted by indus

Pleasure as you say is subjective. Though the majority of 5s sold will be a 520d I would never buy one. To me there is little pleasure driving such a slow car. To me its also not a case of diminishing returns either, a 520d may well be a nice car but a 535d is a different beast. 2.3 seconds faster to 60 is not a small amount.
For example the difference between a £60K Porsche and a £100k Porsche may only be 1.5 seconds.

Horses for courses and all that.....

I agree, you raise some valid points. Your comment about the 520d being a slow car is interesting, as "slow" too is subjective. I agree that it's slow in comparison to the 535d, as this is a relative comparison. It is also slow in comparison to your current M5, which is again a relative comparison. However, where the 520d is not slow, is when comparing it to most other cars on UK roads, where it is relatively quick. I think this is what makes me happy with my choice. If I need to over take, I can do so with ease and no stress, the majority of cars on the road (in the UK) today.

You are spot on - horses for courses.

Cheers.

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by Touring

They should remove the petrol 4 cylinders from the F10, but keep the gasoline sixes and V8 with and without turbos, but still be offering the four-and six dielsels.

So if you want to save money you buy a diesel, and if you want to have fun you buy a Gasoline

looks like they are intent on replacing the petrol 3.0NAs with 2.0turbos..
The downsizing seems ridiculous, but the 2012 f30 M3 is getting 3.0l I6 with twinturbos, and supposedly all-turbo petrol f30 lineup..
so perhaps i should be happy im getting an 'old' N52B30 in my 528.. the last of the NAs

byebye V8 ..

but can they really get the 2.0T to 258hp? .. i can accept the f30 2.0T at 230hp .. but getting it to fit the 528i @258 is a stretch

[indus]

Originally Posted by ipso_facto

I agree, you raise some valid points. Your comment about the 520d being a slow car is interesting, as "slow" too is subjective. I agree that it's slow in comparison to the 535d, as this is a relative comparison. It is also slow in comparison to your current M5, which is again a relative comparison. However, where the 520d is not slow, is when comparing it to most other cars on UK roads, where it is relatively quick. I think this is what makes me happy with my choice. If I need to over take, I can do so with ease and no stress, the majority of cars on the road (in the UK) today.

You are spot on - horses for courses.

Cheers.

Agreed

[snkpkp]

well for starters living in a country which has 600-800 % import duty on anything larger than 2.0 Liter, the 528i with 2.0 Turbo is a blessing in disguise for us. We have the 520d selling at roughly $120k to $150k and if the gasoline version comes it will sell double in numbers as these premium buyers do not care about fuel costs etc. My friend is the owner of BMW Bangladesh, and he confirmed but would not give me dates of release for the following

520d second version 190 bhp
525d 210 bhp 2.0 turbo diesel
520i 175 bhp 2.0 turbo in line four
528i 235 bhp 2.0 turbo in line four

he hinted from September 2011, but would no confirm or deny any more details i asked him. He also mentioned the first engines would go in to the Z4 and 1 Series.

[otisdog]

If the move to four cylinders is true, it gives me hope that we'll see a four cylinder diesel in the US.

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by otisdog

If the move to four cylinders is true, it gives me hope that we'll see a four cylinder diesel in the US.

Why?