[twssas]

Wife currently has 2010 535 with sports package....absolute blast to drive. She is now considering new 2015 535 or maybe 550.

Question....Will the M Sport give a comparable handling feel to her current E60, or will she need DHP, or both?

Second question, does the 2015 F10's have the ability to put the steering in a heavier mode, like sports +, and leave the transmission/engine in comfort?

For anyone who has made the change from an e60 sports package, what is your opinion, on the DHP/M Sports issues.

She has test driven to this point the 435, and M4. (she liked the m4, but maybe not crazy about the DCT), and 435 didnt quite do it for her. She does like to drive spirited, e.g. 45-50 mph on 25 mph ramps...
We are planning on driving msport soon, but local dealer does not have any dhp in stock. Closest one I found was 150 miles away...

anyway, your opinions, comments?

[Vinfast]

I've had a '11 550i M-sport with the adaptive dampening, and I had to put lowering springs on it to get it close to my E60 550. I always had to put in sport mode every time I drove because that's my driving style.

Now I have a '14 550i M-sport with passive sport suspension and love it more. No lowering springs -- just perfect handling straight from the factory.

[Vinfast]

I'm actually selling mine to get a bigger vehicle for my 3 children.

[Noggie]

I did not come from an e60, but an e46 M3 with KW v3 suspension.
Handling is softer, and I like the comfort setting, sports is ok for spirited driving but I find the rear end to be a little loose when driving hard. The active swaybars makes it possible to throw my f11 wagon through corners pretty much like my M3.
I find it to be a good compromise, but a set of springs and 21" wheels will probably make it even more nimble.

Sports mode can be configured. steering & suspension, and engine & drivetrain can be individually selected. So you can have heavier steering and firmer suspension while the engine and drivetrain is in comfort.

Sport+ is everything to extreme and driving aids to a relaxed setting.

Switching off the driving aids returns everything to comfort for some reason.

[Ben2k9]

FWIW - I have the 550 M Sport with DHP and love it. Love the ability to change the suspension. Comfort for long highway trips, and sport for around town, and normal mode for when I have no preference....

[twssas]

[QUOTE=Ben2k9;17116621]FWIW - I have the 550 M Sport with DHP and love it. Love the ability to change the suspension. Comfort for long highway trips, and sport for around town, and normal mode for when I have no

Thanks for your comment

Another question, can you for example set yor steering on sport or sports plus, and leave engine/ transmission in comfort?

[Dante269]

yes

[Noggie]

Originally Posted by twssas

Thanks for your comment

Another question, can you for example set yor steering on sport or sports plus, and leave engine/ transmission in comfort?

I already answered that for you above.

Yes, you can.
Comfort is everything set to relaxed mode.
Sport is configurable. You can set steering and suspension to sport and not the engine/transmission or the other way around.
Sport+ is not configurable, everything to sport, and relaxed traction control.
Traction control off set everything to comfort.

[twssas]

Originally Posted by Noggie

I already answered that for you above.

Yes, you can.
Comfort is everything set to relaxed mode.
Sport is configurable. You can set steering and suspension to sport and not the engine/transmission or the other way around.
Sport+ is not configurable, everything to sport, and relaxed traction control.
Traction control off set everything to comfort.

Thank you. I did see that after I re read your comments. My brain wasnt functioning too well. Perhaps too much holiday cheer

[Noggie]

Originally Posted by twssas

Thank you. I did see that after I re read your comments. My brain wasnt functioning too well. Perhaps too much holiday cheer

Hehe, yeah this season does mess with your head for sure
Happy holidays.

[WilliCO]

There's no way you can order an F10 5 series to make it feel like an E60. The F10 weighs about 500 pounds more, and BMW generally uses a softer suspension setup when comparing equivalent option levels. DHP is neat but it can't make the car lighter.

The F10 is just a different car with a different appeal. It looks and drives sleek, gorgeous, and fast. It's not especially light on its feet though. An E60 was curiously light on its feet, and in my experience didn't give up much to an E90 3 series.

If you have to have E60 quality handling, you may have to take a look at a CTS, an Audi A6, or a Lexus GS350.

Sorry that all sounds a little blunt. The Broncos played like crap last night and I am still in a bad mood.

[Vinfast]

Originally Posted by WillInDenver

There's no way you can order an F10 5 series to make it feel like an E60. The F10 weighs about 500 pounds more, and BMW generally uses a softer suspension setup when comparing equivalent option levels. DHP is neat but it can't make the car lighter.

The F10 is just a different car with a different appeal. It looks and drives sleek, gorgeous, and fast. It's not especially light on its feet though. An E60 was curiously light on its feet, and in my experience didn't give up much to an E90 3 series.

If you have to have E60 quality handling, you may have to take a look at a CTS, an Audi A6, or a Lexus GS350.

Sorry that all sounds a little blunt. The Broncos played like crap last night and I am still in a bad mood.

All very true Will -- that's why I suggested going with the passive M-suspension since it is much stiffer than the sport+setting in DHP. Most who used to buy M-sport wanted a sport suspension most of the time.

[WilliCO]

Originally Posted by Vinfast

All very true Will -- that's why I suggested going with the passive M-suspension since it is much stiffer than the sport+setting in DHP. Most who used to buy M-sport wanted a sport suspension most of the time.

Totally agree; that is the way to get the car as close as possible to an E60 feel. DHP is actually more valuable for people who like the comfort setting than for people who prefer the Sport setting.

I wish BMW offered the 704 option on the xDrive M-Sport model. It seems to make sense.

[twssas]

Our e60 has the active roll stabilization as part of the sport package, and keeps the car flat during agressive turning, etc., and I am sure that plays a big roll in the great handling of the car.

Am I correct that the only way to get that feature in the new F10's is to get the DHP package? (I am referrring to ARS)

If you were to only get the M Sport package, would ARS be included with it?

If not, from what I am gleening from the earlier posts, is the closest way to replicate the e60 sport handling is to go with the M Sport which will firm it up.(We like the firmer ride anyway).

We dont have time to go test drive a M Sport until after the holidays, and no dealer in reasonable driving distance from us has any car with DHP, so really cant get a feel for it.

I really dont want to buy both DHP and M Sport for the car if its not needed.

[twssas]

Originally Posted by WillInDenver

There's no way you can order an F10 5 series to make it feel like an E60. The F10 weighs about 500 pounds more, and BMW generally uses a softer suspension setup when comparing equivalent option levels. DHP is neat but it can't make the car lighter.

The F10 is just a different car with a different appeal. It looks and drives sleek, gorgeous, and fast. It's not especially light on its feet though. An E60 was curiously light on its feet, and in my experience didn't give up much to an E90 3 series.

If you have to have E60 quality handling, you may have to take a look at a CTS, an Audi A6, or a Lexus GS350.

Sorry that all sounds a little blunt. The Broncos played like crap last night and I am still in a bad mood.

Hey, I understand about your Broncos, but, I follow the Tennessee Titans.......just a wonderful season.....

[remmib]

Originally Posted by twssas

Our e60 has the active roll stabilization as part of the sport package, and keeps the car flat during agressive turning, etc., and I am sure that plays a big roll in the great handling of the car.

Am I correct that the only way to get that feature in the new F10's is to get the DHP package? (I am referrring to ARS)

If you were to only get the M Sport package, would ARS be included with it?

If not, from what I am gleening from the earlier posts, is the closest way to replicate the e60 sport handling is to go with the M Sport which will firm it up.(We like the firmer ride anyway).

We dont have time to go test drive a M Sport until after the holidays, and no dealer in reasonable driving distance from us has any car with DHP, so really cant get a feel for it.

I really dont want to buy both DHP and M Sport for the car if its not needed.

ARS is part of the DHP, so if you want ARS you have to get DHP.

And DHP will delete the M-sport suspension.

[WilliCO]

Originally Posted by remmib

ARS is part of the DHP, so if you want ARS you have to get DHP.

And DHP will delete the M-sport suspension.

...and the M-Sport suspension is a better sport suspension than DHP, in my experience. People will differ.

If your priority is highest in having a sport-tuned suspension, 704 M-sport is the way to go, and $3500 cheaper to boot.

It you priority is having a sporty car that can also drive and ride comfortably on demand, DHP is the way to go.

[Noggie]

I would say the active roll stabilization is worth every penny.
The ride can be made sportier with a set of ACS or HR springs that does not cost much.

I think DHP with a spring upgrade and 21" wheels will make the car much better than regular m sport suspension, that will probably see a spring replacement due to ride height anyway........
I would not buy a car without DHP, but I did consider a spring/wheel upgrade for my car.

Just my 2 cents.

[Vinfast]

Also, with DHP you'll have to deal with the huge SUV like wheel to fender gap --- the 704 M-sport suspension sits perfectly.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Vinfast

Also, with DHP you'll have to deal with the huge SUV like wheel to fender gap --- the 704 M-sport suspension sits perfectly.

To be honest what does 10mm matter? In the bigger scheme of a suspension which gives a much wider working envelope, I feel BMW have put function first.

Having lived with Adaptive Drive for more than 2-years, it is clear the suspension is a well calibrated system, variable damping works around the OEM spring rate.

Sure it could have been set up in a different way, shorter and stiffer springs and a calibration biased to firmer settings, but that would not be the right balance of ride comfort/sportiness for many users.

HighlandPete

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by WillInDenver

...and the M-Sport suspension is a better sport suspension than DHP, in my experience. People will differ.

If your priority is highest in having a sport-tuned suspension, 704 M-sport is the way to go, and $3500 cheaper to boot.

It you priority is having a sporty car that can also drive and ride comfortably on demand, DHP is the way to go.

Depends how we rate a 'better' sport suspension, but I agree we will see the two suspensions in different ways.

I appreciate the adaptive modes, my roads are so variable that a passive system can be very tiresome, even irritating at times. To "back off a notch" and get some refinement back, is a key feature.

Plus we feel things differently, some can't appreciate 'sporty' unless firm, even hard edged. For others it is more how much the suspension supports a fluid feeling and a more predictable drive, albeit often softer, as point to point times are not solely dependant on suspension firmness.

Some find the adaptive 'feel' a bit strange, possibly it is not as we expect, compared to a passive system. After all it is coming from a different design philosophy. As one BMW insider put it, "as stiff as necessary, but as comfortable as possible". Not all see that approach (or execution) as sporty.

HighlandPete

[WilliCO]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Depends how we rate a 'better' sport suspension, but I agree we will see the two suspensions in different ways.

I appreciate the adaptive modes, my roads are so variable that a passive system can be very tiresome, even irritating at times. To "back off a notch" and get some refinement back, is a key feature.

Plus we feel things differently, some can't appreciate 'sporty' unless firm, even hard edged. For others it is more how much the suspension supports a fluid feeling and a more predictable drive, albeit often softer, as point to point times are not solely dependant on suspension firmness.

Some find the adaptive 'feel' a bit strange, possibly it is not as we expect, compared to a passive system. After all it is coming from a different design philosophy. As one BMW insider put it, "as stiff as necessary, but as comfortable as possible". Not all see that approach (or execution) as sporty.

HighlandPete

You and I have covered this ground before, and I agree our priorities are different. DHP is brilliant as a solution for people who want flexibility in a suspension and ascribe value to being able to calm the car down on demand. That sounds like it may be you and it's definitely a lot of people. As a sport suspension I find that it needs a little provocation to wake up, and in the F10 application it never quite gets where I want it to be.

Since we talked about this, I learned that the xDrive DHP F10 cars do not use the "Adaptive M Suspension" found in some other BMWs. That suspension uses the same springs that the 704 uses, but omits the larger anti-roll bar in preference to the DHP damping system. In the F10 xDrive, the DHP suspension is truly the basic suspension with adjustable dampers, along with whatever ARS does, which again probably proxies a larger anti-roll bar.

I've driven a 4 series and a 6 series with DHP and the Adaptive M suspension. I think that would have been a more satisfying solution to me on the 5 series as well, and I wonder why they did it differently there.