[SonOfAnakin]

Aiming for upgrades where the install isn't too much of a stretch for me but will still produce noticeable results.

Thinking about fmic, charge pipe, high flow catted downpipe, and afe intake, along with an mhd tune and maybe X-Delete.

Thoughts?

What's the go to source for reviews on these kinds of parts? There are a few different choices for the fmic, downpipe, and charge pipe. Would be good to get some first hand comparisons to help inform my choice.

Thanks for your time.

[ziekxq]

I would honestly avoid spending 500 bucks on afe intake which will not give you the performance gain vs how much it costs. Rest looks good and will get you to stage 2+ on MHD. If you auto than get xHP trans tune instead of an intake. Get a drop in filter instead from K&N. xDelete is personal preference and really up to you.

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by SonOfAnakin

Aiming for upgrades where the install isn't too much of a stretch for me but will still produce noticeable results.

Thinking about fmic, charge pipe, high flow catted downpipe, and afe intake, along with an mhd tune and maybe X-Delete.

Thoughts?

What's the go to source for reviews on these kinds of parts? There are a few different choices for the fmic, downpipe, and charge pipe. Would be good to get some first hand comparisons to help inform my choice.

Thanks for your time.

IMO only:

FMIC - with a stage 2/2+ or custom tune, you can see some real gains here but every F10 DIY I've read says there's always fit or installation problems leading to "clever improvisation" to get the job done. And every FMIC install increases turbo lag due to the increased air volume in the FMIC and piping. If you don't make a habit of doing pulls you may make your driving experience worse.

Charge pipe - I've never read a story of it increasing performance. More as a preventive fix to replace the stock plastic part with aluminum since they all fail eventually (even at stock boost) and higher boost just makes it happen faster. Most also have a meth bung if you get really serious, but I'm not sure that's what you have in mind. I have purchased, but not yet installed, the FTP motorsport charge pipe + boost pipe kit. I don't expect an ounce of performance increase. As a matter of fact, I can imagine a performance decrease since an aluminum CP will promote heat conduction from the hot engine bay air to the combustion air charge in a situation where the original plastic part has greater insulation properties.

Intake - skip it. Completely. Factory draws cold air and flows lots. Forced induction cars won't get nice growling intake sounds like normally aspirated, and all those systems that throw a cone into the hot engine bay are....not good engineering.

Down pipes - I've read a lot of this, haven't done one. Gains to be had with stage 2/2+ flash tune. PWG N55 DPs are an inch smaller than EWG and PWG owners may not see nearly as much gains. Lots of people get DPs purely to remove the cat for sound - pops, bangs, gunshots and turbo whistle - and I'm not sure if performance changed much at all.

Software - MHD or BM3 yes absolutely. I ended up with MHD. If you don't have a manual transmission, put xHP on your list absolutely. You might find that just MHD/BM3 stage 1 + xHP is enough change to make you happy for now, paired with an exhaust that makes things a little more engaging to drive.

[SonOfAnakin]

Originally Posted by Surly73

IMO only:

FMIC - with a stage 2/2+ or custom tune, you can see some real gains here but every F10 DIY I've read says there's always fit or installation problems leading to "clever improvisation" to get the job done. And every FMIC install increases turbo lag due to the increased air volume in the FMIC and piping. If you don't make a habit of doing pulls you may make your driving experience worse.

Charge pipe - I've never read a story of it increasing performance. More as a preventive fix to replace the stock plastic part with aluminum since they all fail eventually (even at stock boost) and higher boost just makes it happen faster. Most also have a meth bung if you get really serious, but I'm not sure that's what you have in mind. I have purchased, but not yet installed, the FTP motorsport charge pipe + boost pipe kit. I don't expect an ounce of performance increase. As a matter of fact, I can imagine a performance decrease since an aluminum CP will promote heat conduction from the hot engine bay air to the combustion air charge in a situation where the original plastic part has greater insulation properties.

Intake - skip it. Completely. Factory draws cold air and flows lots. Forced induction cars won't get nice growling intake sounds like normally aspirated, and all those systems that throw a cone into the hot engine bay are....not good engineering.

Down pipes - I've read a lot of this, haven't done one. Gains to be had with stage 2/2+ flash tune. PWG N55 DPs are an inch smaller than EWG and PWG owners may not see nearly as much gains. Lots of people get DPs purely to remove the cat for sound - pops, bangs, gunshots and turbo whistle - and I'm not sure if performance changed much at all.

Software - MHD or BM3 yes absolutely. I ended up with MHD. If you don't have a manual transmission, put xHP on your list absolutely. You might find that just MHD/BM3 stage 1 + xHP is enough change to make you happy for now, paired with an exhaust that makes things a little more engaging to drive.

Thanks for the feedback so far. Keep it coming!

Removed the intake from my list.

Added a drop in perf air filter and xHD trans tune to the list.

The charge pipe is definitely just for prevention of failure and not expecting a perf boost.

I'm understanding that using stage 2/2+ tune requires the fmic. I've also read that the tune eliminates the lag that is caused by the larger air volume. Any experience with this?

[Unspec]

Originally Posted by SonOfAnakin

Thanks for the feedback so far. Keep it coming!

Removed the intake from my list.

Added a drop in perf air filter and xHD trans tune to the list.

The charge pipe is definitely just for prevention of failure and not expecting a perf boost.

I'm understanding that using stage 2/2+ tune requires the fmic. I've also read that the tune eliminates the lag that is caused by the larger air volume. Any experience with this?

Honestly the lag associated with the larger intercooler is overplayed a bit. If you're already in boost, it's not going to be noticeable. Sport and Sport+ mode pretty much keep you on the edge of boost, so the only place you'd notice it is comfort and eco.

xHD is really only needed if you want to really fiddle with transmission tunes. If not, it's better to get BM3 for the tune and use the free transmission tune they provide. I'm not 100% sure how well xDelete works with BM3, but Bryan from Kies Motorsports runs xDelete and BM3 on his F30, so I'm sure its fine.

Not planning for an exhaust? The stock mufflers pretty much kill the burbles and upshift farts.

[SonOfAnakin]

I need to do more research before thinking about exhaust. I'd like a bit more noise, but not a ton. The high flow cat seemed to add just the right amount. Will need to find a Goldilocks exhaust option as well.

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by SonOfAnakin

Thanks for the feedback so far. Keep it coming!

Removed the intake from my list.

Added a drop in perf air filter and xHD trans tune to the list.

The charge pipe is definitely just for prevention of failure and not expecting a perf boost.

I'm understanding that using stage 2/2+ tune requires the fmic. I've also read that the tune eliminates the lag that is caused by the larger air volume. Any experience with this?

Just my thoughts, again.... I haven't done a FMIC, but I've done a fair bit of reading. Those with FMICs should chime in.

I'd skip the drop in air filter too. The oiled style can send atomized air into your MAF, which will bake onto the hot filaments and you're done. Not worth the risk - the filters flow fine. Change them often with quality OE parts (I like Mann, for whatever reason).

The trans tune is "xHP". Their most active presence seems to be Facebook.

On FMICs and stage 2/2+ :: I would not expect the tune to reduce the lag from the air volume. I found MHD stage 1 PWG possibly added a little lag, but the limits are higher. I've read all kinds of theories on that, including the fact that my particular F10 doesn't have a DEC switch so I might be selling myself short. I'll work on that more later.

The Stage 2/2+ requires the FMIC to keep IATs within safe ranges for the engine since it pushes everything harder. Just keep in mind that FMIC comes with more cost than just the dollar cost - lag. Whether you'll like higher total torque more than responsiveness I can't answer.

Study and understand the pricing/licensing models of the tuners. If you're making a bit of a hobby out of this and want all the maps and lots of data logging and the whole works included, BM3 might be a better overall platform for you.

[ziekxq]

Originally Posted by Unspec

Honestly the lag associated with the larger intercooler is overplayed a bit. If you're already in boost, it's not going to be noticeable. Sport and Sport+ mode pretty much keep you on the edge of boost, so the only place you'd notice it is comfort and eco.

xHD is really only needed if you want to really fiddle with transmission tunes. If not, it's better to get BM3 for the tune and use the free transmission tune they provide. I'm not 100% sure how well xDelete works with BM3, but Bryan from Kies Motorsports runs xDelete and BM3 on his F30, so I'm sure its fine.

Not planning for an exhaust? The stock mufflers pretty much kill the burbles and upshift farts.

Lag is there from standstill... Rolling no lag at all. xHP has different map options that does different things and make shifting act like an M car.

[Unspec]

Originally Posted by ziekxq

Lag is there from standstill... Rolling no lag at all. xHP has different map options that does different things and make shifting act like an M car.

I have the wagner FMIC clone and I've noticed zero lag when in sport mode from a stand still. Is there measurable lag? Probably. Will you notice it? Seriously doubt it. xHP definitely has more transmission customization agreed, but OP might not be looking for that level of tweaking and might just want slightly improved shift times. xHP is pretty steep if you're not making use of all its features.

Originally Posted by SonOfAnakin

I need to do more research before thinking about exhaust. I'd like a bit more noise, but not a ton. The high flow cat seemed to add just the right amount. Will need to find a Goldilocks exhaust option as well.

I have a Remus axelback exhaust on my 535xi, and I think it sounds just right. Nice, deep growl without sound raspy, and there's only drone at around the 1500 rpm range. Sport mode keeps the car out of this range so pretty much no drone if you don't mind a slight loss of efficiency while cruising. I can't speak for other exhausts as I haven't heard them in person, and honestly videos are pretty bad at showing how an exhaust sounds (turn down your gain ffs), but I've heard good things about the OEM MPPK exhaust as well if you're looking for a more lowkey exhaust.

[95blkmax]

Originally Posted by SonOfAnakin

Aiming for upgrades where the install isn't too much of a stretch for me but will still produce noticeable results.

Thinking about fmic, charge pipe, high flow catted downpipe, and afe intake, along with an mhd tune and maybe X-Delete.

Thoughts?

What's the go to source for reviews on these kinds of parts? There are a few different choices for the fmic, downpipe, and charge pipe. Would be good to get some first hand comparisons to help inform my choice.

Thanks for your time.

I did an intake for the sake of the sound. No power to be had there. If anything I lost responsiveness at the low end. But to me, the sound makes it worthwhile. Can clearly hear the DV doing its work

I did the FMIC (G-Plus) and charge pipe (BMS) at the same time. I can attest that (like the intake) I lost responsiveness at the bottom end. But once the revs are up this is a non-point. The engine does sound like it breathes deeper- if that makes any sense at all. To me it seems to rev up quicker too, but it could be the sound of the intake playing with my head

Charge pipe was a pain to put in because I couldn't drop the back end under the TB to get the front end to the OE CP lower section because I have my transmission cooler sitting under the TB... so the only way I could get that the front to line up was to loosen the lower CP. To do this, I had to disconnect it from the stock IC outlet. This is why I ended up doing them simultaneously. It was a pain in the a$$ lol. Involved filing down metal, working around the aux cooler lines that get in the way, and one AC hardline. But perseverance pays off here and I made the b!sh fit. The IC is massive. Once you get it in there, you can tell it's made to fit the space perfectly. I'm very happy with it. The pain was to get it into position because of X Y and Z in the way that I had to work around. So just expect that much labor.

I've only had the car for 2 months so this is all I've done engine-mod wise so far!

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by Unspec

xHP definitely has more transmission customization agreed, but OP might not be looking for that level of tweaking and might just want slightly improved shift times. xHP is pretty steep if you're not making use of all its features.

I disagree on the downplay of xHP here, however I think it may depend on what you're starting with. If you have an M Sport RWD car with the 2TB sport automatic transmission and SPORT+ mode available as a start, there's probably less improvement. I have a non-sport, AWD, 205 automatic transmission car with no DEC switch. I loaded xHP stage 2 and the difference is like night and day, especially in M.

Night and day.

None of the tweaking stuff was even available when I loaded it late last winter. I just threw on stage 2 and left it. Never want to go back. Even the revised parameters for D/Comfort result in the car being way more drivable and not always in 8th at the earliest opportunity.

I can't speak for other exhausts as I haven't heard them in person, and honestly videos are pretty bad at showing how an exhaust sounds (turn down your gain ffs), but I've heard good things about the OEM MPPK exhaust as well if you're looking for a more lowkey exhaust.

No kidding. I'll one-up you - why do most who post videos assume that all we want to do is cold start, and then sit in the driveway in P bouncing off the rev limiter? Almost everything online is totally useless, and not tailored to be helpful for what I'm looking for.

I have an MPE I got second hand. It's the first revision for the 535 so it was revised in 2012. It may or may not sound different than the later revision. I find the cabin drone annoying on the highway with the windows up. I take it off completely for the winter and go back to stock. It's not all that loud outside of the car and generally sounds great around town or in the twisties with the windows down.

I don't know that anyone makes exactly what I'm after, and I'm not sure if the turbocharged inline sixes can even make the sound I miss with the turbo in the way. I had a Dinan exhaust on my E39 528i - no drone, not a lot of rumble but some low frequencies were part of the sound, a low hum at idle, very musical running through the gears with some bark during rev-matching and stuff. Miss that (and the manual transmission).

[Unspec]

Originally Posted by Surly73

I disagree on the downplay of xHP here, however I think it may depend on what you're starting with. If you have an M Sport RWD car with the 2TB sport automatic transmission and SPORT+ mode available as a start, there's probably less improvement. I have a non-sport, AWD, 205 automatic transmission car with no DEC switch. I loaded xHP stage 2 and the difference is like night and day, especially in M.

Night and day.

None of the tweaking stuff was even available when I loaded it late last winter. I just threw on stage 2 and left it. Never want to go back. Even the revised parameters for D/Comfort result in the car being way more drivable and not always in 8th at the earliest opportunity.

I'm not trying to downplay it, it just has a lot deeper customization and tuning available to it. But the BM3 transmission tune improves shift times as well, maybe not as much, but some people also don't like harsh shifts.

If you're getting xHP just to unlock 2TB and Sport+, it's a complete waste of money. 2TB can easily be VO coded. I started with 205, VO coded 2TB in 20 minutes.

Originally Posted by Surly73

No kidding. I'll one-up you - why do most who post videos assume that all we want to do is cold start, and then sit in the driveway in P bouncing off the rev limiter? Almost everything online is totally useless, and not tailored to be helpful for what I'm looking for.

I have an MPE I got second hand. It's the first revision for the 535 so it was revised in 2012. It may or may not sound different than the later revision. I find the cabin drone annoying on the highway with the windows up. I take it off completely for the winter and go back to stock. It's not all that loud outside of the car and generally sounds great around town or in the twisties with the windows down.

I don't know that anyone makes exactly what I'm after, and I'm not sure if the turbocharged inline sixes can even make the sound I miss with the turbo in the way. I had a Dinan exhaust on my E39 528i - no drone, not a lot of rumble but some low frequencies were part of the sound, a low hum at idle, very musical running through the gears with some bark during rev-matching and stuff. Miss that (and the manual transmission).

Yea unfortunately NA sound is hard to mimic. Turbos can sound good, just different. Agreed on the cold start part. They're also revving with a cold engine, so that's also very shudder worthy.

I can't swap my exhaust for winter easily because the stock mufflers are dual tips, while the remus is quad tip, but I also absolutely don't mind the slight drone. Barely audible over my music anyhow.

[ziekxq]

xHP due to line pressure which is important since he is increasing torque. You can turn off harsh shifts if you want, if you have stock turbo than you can make the trans shift at 5000/5500rpm automatically, make car always be in 2nd gear (this improved day to day driving) and other things.

Also, catless downpipe is there to remove back pressure and in OPs case high flow downpipe should do the same.

I have MPE + Catless downpipe and I get complements all the time on the sound.

Maybe lag is from pure stage 2 spooling but when in floor it from stop light there is a big noticable lag for me. Maybe I will do a recording to show. Even in sport plus for me dsc complete off and lever to S still has noticable lag. Only time I don't feel lag is when using launch control. Are you running PS2?

[Unspec]

Originally Posted by ziekxq

xHP due to line pressure which is important since he is increasing torque. You can turn off harsh shifts if you want, if you have stock turbo than you can make the trans shift at 5000/5500rpm automatically, make car always be in 2nd gear (this improved day to day driving) and other things.

Also, catless downpipe is there to remove back pressure and in OPs case high flow downpipe should do the same.

I have MPE + Catless downpipe and I get complements all the time on the sound.

Maybe lag is from pure stage 2 spooling but when in floor it from stop light there is a big noticable lag for me. Maybe I will do a recording to show. Even in sport plus for me dsc complete off and lever to S still has noticable lag. Only time I don't feel lag is when using launch control. Are you running PS2?

I'm running stock turbos, not at the point where I need a turbo upgrade. PS2 definitely will increase lag from a dead stop due to needing to spin up a larger mass. Bigger turbos are always a lag vs potential tradeoff. On stock turbos, I don't get any noticeable lag even with the FMIC.

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by Unspec

I'm not trying to downplay it, it just has a lot deeper customization and tuning available to it. But the BM3 transmission tune improves shift times as well, maybe not as much, but some people also don't like harsh shifts.

If you're getting xHP just to unlock 2TB and Sport+, it's a complete waste of money. 2TB can easily be VO coded. I started with 205, VO coded 2TB in 20 minutes.

I might be misunderstood.

If someone already has 2TB and Sport+, they might say the difference with xHP isn't that big a deal. To someone with neither - it's a huge deal.

Second - you can code the 2TB option but it doesn't change shifting - at least not on my no-DEC switch 2011 model. Not the slightest bit of change in shifting behaviour by VO coding 2TB instead of my 205. It just allowed my retrofit paddles to work. Coding an option doesn't remap the transmission. Maybe DEC-equipped F10s are different.

Since one of the xHP updates over the summer, the 'harshest' shift program can be disabled at flash time. Notable: even the harshest shift program is "in there" from the factory, just not used on all platforms. I remember feeling it on a loaner 330 MSport w/ 2TB. From what I recall the same 8HP series is used in lots of models including the M235i, just mapped very differently. xHP remaps it all, and gives the user many options as well.

[5soko]

-MHD is a solid tune,
-Intakes really not worthwhile for this platform
-Neither are catless downpipes, ( i gained nothing)
But the turbo whistle and spool sound great.
- FMIC is a good addition but as mentioned many of them need some work to make fit and work properly.
- i wouldn't worry about any trans tune for this car unless you are making big power and on a bigger turbo.. even then......

[ziekxq]

Originally Posted by 5soko

-MHD is a solid tune,
-Intakes really not worthwhile for this platform
-Neither are catless downpipes, ( i gained nothing)
But the turbo whistle and spool sound great.
- FMIC is a good addition but as mentioned many of them need some work to make fit and work properly.
- i wouldn't worry about any trans tune for this car unless you are making big power and on a bigger turbo.. even then......

Catless downpipe is there so you release back pressure and turbo doesn't have to work harder to produce power. Trans tune helps make sure dme and transmission knows how much torque is needed and other benefits.

[5soko]

Originally Posted by ziekxq

Catless downpipe is there so you release back pressure and turbo doesn't have to work harder to produce power. Trans tune helps make sure dme and transmission knows how much torque is needed and other benefits.

Originally Posted by ziekxq

Catless downpipe is there so you release back pressure and turbo doesn't have to work harder to produce power. Trans tune helps make sure dme and transmission knows how much torque is needed and other benefits.

Lol on a pwg N55, there isn't much back pressure on the stock turbo haha as we all know.. imo not worth the little labor or money, but i like the turbo noise.
I've driven and flashed the trans tune, its useless on stock turbo..

[ziekxq]

Originally Posted by 5soko

Lol on a pwg N55, there isn't much back pressure on the stock turbo haha as we all know.. imo not worth the little labor or money, but i like the turbo noise.
I've driven and flashed the trans tune, its useless on stock turbo..

Where did you get that information regarding Catless downpipe/back pressure?

Also, I have driven my car without the flash and with the flash and it is not even about stock turbo vs aftermarket turbo. It makes a huge difference in day to day driving as well. You not utilizing full power of aftermarket turbo until you are 100 percent throttle. Also, fast shifts compare to sluggish stock shift... Manual mode fast almost instant downshifts are alone a good enough reason in my book to get the trans tune. On stock turbo you can set to auto shift at 5500rpm automatically during full throttle (stock turbo runs out of juice at/around 5k rpm). My car didn't had launch control so I got that as well. There are plenty of other reasons as well... But I guess you have convinced your self lol.

If you are going stage 1 than I would say maybe not get the trans tune but with stage 2 tune I would def. recommend but in my opinion even a stock car benefits from trans tune.

[SonOfAnakin]

Lots to think about and consider. Thanks everyone. It will be a bit before I start as we are heading into some cold months here in MI and I'm not a big fan of working on the car in the cold. I like to be able to feel my fingertips.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by SonOfAnakin

Lots to think about and consider. Thanks everyone. It will be a bit before I start as we are heading into some cold months here in MI and I'm not a big fan of working on the car in the cold. I like to be able to feel my fingertips.

Once its time start modding, let me know if i can help

[5soko]

Originally Posted by ziekxq

Where did you get that information regarding Catless downpipe/back pressure?

Also, I have driven my car without the flash and with the flash and it is not even about stock turbo vs aftermarket turbo. It makes a huge difference in day to day driving as well. You not utilizing full power of aftermarket turbo until you are 100 percent throttle. Also, fast shifts compare to sluggish stock shift... Manual mode fast almost instant downshifts are alone a good enough reason in my book to get the trans tune. On stock turbo you can set to auto shift at 5500rpm automatically during full throttle (stock turbo runs out of juice at/around 5k rpm). My car didn't had launch control so I got that as well. There are plenty of other reasons as well... But I guess you have convinced your self lol.

If you are going stage 1 than I would say maybe not get the trans tune but with stage 2 tune I would def. recommend but in my opinion even a stock car benefits from trans tune.

Originally Posted by ziekxq

Where did you get that information regarding Catless downpipe/back pressure?

Also, I have driven my car without the flash and with the flash and it is not even about stock turbo vs aftermarket turbo. It makes a huge difference in day to day driving as well. You not utilizing full power of aftermarket turbo until you are 100 percent throttle. Also, fast shifts compare to sluggish stock shift... Manual mode fast almost instant downshifts are alone a good enough reason in my book to get the trans tune. On stock turbo you can set to auto shift at 5500rpm automatically during full throttle (stock turbo runs out of juice at/around 5k rpm). My car didn't had launch control so I got that as well. There are plenty of other reasons as well... But I guess you have convinced your self lol.

If you are going stage 1 than I would say maybe not get the trans tune but with stage 2 tune I would def. recommend but in my opinion even a stock car benefits from trans tune.

I am sure as you know, The big tq limiters most of our F10's have, are 3rd and 6th gear, ive seen randoms with none from the factory.
I didn't see much in third gear via my datalogs of limits on the stock tcu.(I am never full throttle in 6th gear) And when i do get any limiting, i dont mind, since its protecting the trans where bmw thought it needed it most. This is my daily, so im not lookin for every ounce of HP or to sacrifice the trans for a lil more power or shift speed.
Increasing shift speed or LC, i didn't feel a substantial gain to be worth the increased stress on the trans.
Hence why i mentioned, if you are on a PS2, its worth removing the limiters to gain the power you would be otherwise capped at since you modded this far.

Regardless, xHP is a great interface and tune for our cars to adjust many trans parameters so easily.
The adjustments are fun to play with but wont make the F10 a race car or win any races in risk of the trans. I know there isnt many reports of trans down because of a trans with no tq limits, but i think in the future we might see more come to light with more miles.
If you are more serious into modding and like to play with things for fun, or a bigger turbo, i think the xHP can bring you more benefits. Average joe with a OTS map and bolt ons, not so much IMHO.

Moral of the story, get a MHD flash, wireless obd, logger and ots maps, and enjoy your F10

Happy New years guys!