[UA_civ_eng]

I'm not a fan of the piggyback idea (don't try and convince me to get one, please) and have been searching for an N63 flash tune before I even had my 550i. With all of the searching I've done, I haven't found anything I can get; Either somebody posted that their flash tune was being tested and would be ready in a month or two (8 months ago) or I can't find anywhere to buy the tune. So, with that in mind, does anybody know of a company that is flash-tuning N63 ECUs?

[Simple5]

None so far... other than Dinan which their Stage 2 tune gets it's ass kicked by a simple BMS Stage 1... Believe me man, you are preaching to the choir about a proper flash tune for the n63. I am waiting patiently as well...

[UA_civ_eng]

Originally Posted by Simple3

None so far... other than Dinan which their Stage 2 tune gets it's ass kicked by a simple BMS Stage 1... Believe me man, you are preaching to the choir about a proper flash tune for the n63. I am waiting patiently as well...

Let's hope a miracle worker will chime in here shortly. I think Dinan stuff is great and would get it in a heartbeat were it not for the $3k pricetag. I'm just not understanding why they have had a flash-tune out for so long, but nobody else is trailing...even if it is just a re-labeled product.

[SLVSRFR]

Like you said you've done the research. There is nothing available. Dinan or BMS are your options.

The reason being is: there is no market for it. Less than 20 people buying a flash tune would not be worth the work and money put into developing the tune (figuratively speaking since a very miniscule percentage of 550i owners mod their vehicles). Especially since there are cheaper ways to get the same power for a fraction of what they would want to charge.

[550Reasons]

I would love one too man, but nothing so far, I hear something about they gonna test it but never again hear back. which leads me to believe they failed.
For now the BMS stage 1 will do.

[UA_civ_eng]

Originally Posted by BCK2BLN

Like you said you've done the research. There is nothing available. Dinan or BMS are your options.

The reason being is: there is no market for it. Less than 20 people buying a flash tune would not be worth the work and money put into developing the tune (figuratively speaking since a very miniscule percentage of 550i owners mod their vehicles). Especially since there are cheaper ways to get the same power for a fraction of what they would want to charge.

I think the market for it is there, and growing I would assume. As these cars become older and are out of warranty, I would think more people would be wanting to mod.

[SLVSRFR]

Originally Posted by UA_civ_eng

I think the market for it is there, and growing I would assume. As these cars become older and are out of warranty, I would think more people would be wanting to mod.

Most F10 owners don't mod their vehicle (engine wise) and majority don't mod them at all. Average age of 550 owners is in the 50's and I doubt any of them are on this forum looking for mods.

So about your statement...
It's the exact opposite. The original owners of these vehicles pay $70,000+ Which means they have the $ to drop on mods, if they wanted to...

However, as this vehicle depreciates in value, people who truly cant afford these cars will buy them because of the low purchase price not thinking about maintenance out of warranty costs and cheap out as much as possible on mods.

I've seen it happen with my E60 M5 which in turn ruined that scene due to depreciation. As well as my old 335i, It's a never ending cycle with bmw's. Just look at all the E90/E92's 335's that look like Honda civics on the road now. People buy them because they're cheap, put cheap mods on them, plasti dip the hell out of them, throw a JB4 on, race around like mad men, and freak out at repair costs when they blow their turbos or when their HPFP fails. Then they turn to the forum for DIY because they can't afford maintenance. Just take a peep on E90post and you'll see what I mean.

[UA_civ_eng]

Originally Posted by BCK2BLN

Most F10 owners don't mod their vehicle (engine wise) and majority don't mod them at all. Average age of 550 owners is in the 50's and I doubt any of them are on this forum looking for mods.

So about your statement...
It's the exact opposite. The original owners of these vehicles pay $70,000+ Which means they have the $ to drop on mods, if they wanted to...

However, as this vehicle depreciates in value, people who truly cant afford these cars will buy them because of the low purchase price not thinking about maintenance out of warranty costs and cheap out as much as possible on mods.

I've seen it happen with my E60 M5 which in turn ruined that scene due to depreciation. As well as my old 335i, It's a never ending cycle with bmw's. Just look at all the E90/E92's 335's that look like Honda civics on the road now. People buy them because they're cheap, put cheap mods on them, plasti dip the hell out of them, throw a JB4 on, race around like mad men, and freak out at repair costs when they blow their turbos or when their HPFP fails. Then they turn to the forum for DIY because they can't afford maintenance. Just take a peep on E90post and you'll see what I mean.

Then why are there companies out there offering TU flashtunes for reasonable prices?

[SLVSRFR]

Originally Posted by UA_civ_eng

Then why are there companies out there offering TU flashtunes for reasonable prices?

.........because it's the newest thing out. Hence my first statement: the people who paid $70,000 for the car within the 2 years since its been out, HAVE the money to mod the car. A middle class person would have a hard time finding justification to drop $1500 on a flash tune, when that money could go to something else.

Also, the TU was introduced with the xdrive, most people who buy the xdrive do so because of the performance standpoint.That makes it marketable, if majority of Xdrive owners mod their vehicle to take advantage of the AWD then companies can make money off the platform. It's basic supply and demand.

Also, I'm pretty sure there are differences between the engines that make the TU more 'friendly.' From my understanding, the N63 was a difficult platform. Which is why the BMS piggyback isn't a 'JB4' product because of different restrictions that Terry ran into related to CANBUS access which in turn made all the usual features of a normal JB4 unable to be offered.

[badblack550xi]

N63 cars use an old DME that has 2 mobos in one case and cannot be cracked.

[UA_civ_eng]

Originally Posted by BCK2BLN

.........because it's the newest thing out. Hence my first statement: the people who paid $70,000 for the car within the 2 years since its been out, HAVE the money to mod the car. A middle class person would have a hard time finding justification to drop $1500 on a flash tune, when that money could go to something else.

Also, the TU was introduced with the xdrive, most people who buy the xdrive do so because of the performance standpoint.That makes it marketable, if majority of Xdrive owners mod their vehicle to take advantage of the AWD then companies can make money off the platform. It's basic supply and demand.

Also, I'm pretty sure there are differences between the engines that make the TU more 'friendly.' From my understanding, the N63 was a difficult platform. Which is why the BMS piggyback isn't a 'JB4' product because of different restrictions that Terry ran into related to CANBUS access which in turn made all the usual features of a normal JB4 unable to be offered.

But here's the thing, homeslice; I'm pretty sure somebody that pays $40,000 for a used 550 is just as likely to spend $1,500 on a tune as somebody that just bought a new one for $70,000. We simply disagree. And for the xDrive argument, I don't buy that one either. You still see people modding M5s left and right with "only" RWD.

However, I will go with you on your last reason, which is some sort of difficulties with the software.

[UA_civ_eng]

Originally Posted by badblack550xi

N63 cars use an old DME that has 2 mobos in one case and cannot be cracked.

You sound like you know what you're talking about (no sarcasm implied). So, can you explain why the Dinan guys were able to do it? Was it just the fact that they put the time into it, and THAT is the reason it costs $3,000?

[BlackWidow]

Dinan has been the leader in BMW performance upgrades for 35 years. My dealer is a DINAN Certified dealer, which makes me believe they have some type of partnership.

There is no MARKET for the N63. I too realized that when I researched it before I bought the car. 40,000 for a used 550? You can talk the dealer down to 33,000 for a used 2012 550. That's the price of a Honda Accord.

Plus with little search on the forums, you would have been able to put together why the N63 hasn't had a flash tune available (what badblack said). But the reason why no company has developed an intake for the n63, an exhaust for the N63 (with the exception of the one company that combatbmw used his vehicle to develop). It's not because the technicalities are different with the N63, there is just no market that would make it worth the time and effort designing these things to see any decent profit. And people mod M5's because its a performance car, thats always going to be a market despite it being 'RWD.' How is that even a question.

[FenixMike]

Originally Posted by UA_civ_eng

You sound like you know what you're talking about (no sarcasm implied). So, can you explain why the Dinan guys were able to do it? Was it just the fact that they put the time into it, and THAT is the reason it costs $3,000?

Dinan and Alpina both flashed the N63 computers... thats the benefit of working with BMW and being a factory supplier through their dealerships.

[UA_civ_eng]

Originally Posted by USMC-BlackWidow

Dinan has been the leader in BMW performance upgrades for 35 years. My dealer is a DINAN Certified dealer, which makes me believe they have some type of partnership.

OP you don't seem to get what BCK2BLN is saying.

There is no MARKET for the N63. I too realized that when I researched it before I bought the car. 40,000 for a used 550? You can talk the dealer down to 33,000 for a used 2012 550. That's the price of a Honda Accord.

Plus with little search on the forums, you would have been able to put together why the N63 hasn't had a flash tune available (what badblack said). But the reason why no company has developed an intake for the n63, an exhaust for the N63 (with the exception of the one company that combatbmw used his vehicle to develop). It's not because the technicalities are different with the N63, there is just no market that would make it worth the time and effort designing these things to see any decent profit. And people mod M5's because its a performance car, thats always going to be a market despite it being 'RWD.' How is that even a question.

Nah BRO, I get what he's saying, I just think he's wrong (and you as well). It's plain and simple. You guys are so confident with what you're saying that it makes me wonder if you did a very large poll of how many 550i N63 owners would be will to pay $1500 or less for a flash tune.

And yes, you can get a 550i for $33,000 all day long. It's probably going to be a 2011 with at least 50,000 if it has the M-Sport package. Get a good condition 2012 or 2013 with M-Sport and less than 30,000 miles and you can easily hit $40,000. What does a Honda Accord have to do with anything?

Aaaaaand lastly, I wasn't questioning people that mod M5s, was I? I was arguing the statement that was about the x-drive cars. Thanks.

[UA_civ_eng]

And as for the "it's the newest thing out" statement referring to the TU having tunes available because the people with those cars have the money and are willing to pay $3k for a flashtune, get this: At one point, the non TU engine was the newest thing out, and still Dinan was the only company to market a flashtune. So your argument is crap.

I'm pretty sure BadBlack has hit the nail on the head about the DME of the non-TU engine being difficult to program.

[FenixMike]

Originally Posted by UA_civ_eng

And as for the "it's the newest thing out" statement referring to the TU having tunes available because the people with those cars have the money and are willing to pay $3k for a flashtune, get this: At one point, the non TU engine was the newest thing out, and still Dinan was the only company to market a flashtune. So your argument is crap.

I'm pretty sure BadBlack has hit the nail on the head about the DME of the non-TU engine being difficult to program.

Dont shoot the messenger, but heres how it plays out.

BMW works with Dinan and Alpina (basically sells them the ability to program at a rate no shop is going to pay and may not even be offered to) on the cars. If you notice, people are just recently tuning the M5 and 550i with this ECU having been out since the 2013 model year, which we are about to go into the 2016. Thats almost 3 years to get into flash tuning. The N63 550i came out in 2011, and by the time anyone got close, the N63tu was already announced with a new computer, so why would anyone waste time for a limited production year that could cost a TON in R&D to sell a few tunes? I tune a lot of domestic vehicles and its the same story with their software, priority goes to the popular cars, and believe it or not, the 2011-2013 550i just isnt on anyones "dream car" list... that being said a new one is, or a M5, or a M4/M3 car, which is what people will focus on. If anyone has spent a ton of time researching every possibility on the N63, its me, and ive gone through the routes to people who can actually do something, and the options given just arent worth the payoff. I made my decision today and stuck my car up for sale and will be investing in a newer N63tu car or M5.

[SLVSRFR]

Originally Posted by FenixMike

Dont shoot the messenger, but heres how it plays out.

BMW works with Dinan and Alpina (basically sells them the ability to program at a rate no shop is going to pay and may not even be offered to) on the cars. If you notice, people are just recently tuning the M5 and 550i with this ECU having been out since the 2013 model year, which we are about to go into the 2016. Thats almost 3 years to get into flash tuning. The N63 550i came out in 2011, and by the time anyone got close, the N63tu was already announced with a new computer, so why would anyone waste time for a limited production year that could cost a TON in R&D to sell a few tunes? I tune a lot of domestic vehicles and its the same story with their software, priority goes to the popular cars, and believe it or not, the 2011-2013 550i just isnt on anyones "dream car" list... that being said a new one is, or a M5, or a M4/M3 car, which is what people will focus on.

+1 well said.

Supply and demand.

[BlackWidow]

Originally Posted by UA_civ_eng

Nah BRO, I get what he's saying, I just think he's wrong (and you as well). It's plain and simple. You guys are so confident with what you're saying that it makes me wonder if you did a very large poll of how many 550i N63 owners would be will to pay $1500 or less for a flash tune.

And yes, you can get a 550i for $33,000 all day long. It's probably going to be a 2011 with at least 50,000 if it has the M-Sport package. Get a good condition 2012 or 2013 with M-Sport and less than 30,000 miles and you can easily hit $40,000. What does a Honda Accord have to do with anything?

Aaaaaand lastly, I wasn't questioning people that mod M5s, was I? I was arguing the statement that was about the x-drive cars. Thanks.

First of all, I wasn't attacking you or anything just validating what the other member was saying (which as you can see, people KNOW, but you don't seem to accept). DINAN was able to release whatever tune they could when it first came out because they have the capabilities from BMW to do so. But since you want to take it from an argument standpoint... You're getting butt hurt because you created a thread inquiring about who is developing flash tune when you've ALREADY done the research on the forums that there are none out or no longer being developed; then members basically explain why there isn't any, sure some of it is opinionated but it's pretty spot on.

Crying about it wont make one appear.

Secondly, using terms such as 'homeslice' and the arrogance in your posts makes me realize what level you're on. It's a FORUM, people are going to have opinions. Especially when you make an original post along the lines of "I WANT...but I don't want to hear about what's already effectively available because I DON'T like the way it's done or how much it costs." But this argument is pretty pointless and childish so I'm not going to entertain it anymore. You spend your time R&D a flash tune if you don't like what's available or devote your time in contacting different tuners about the possibilities of developing a tune for the N63 and I'm pretty sure they would tell you what has already been said here... "It's something they're not used to dealing with and there isn't enough of a market to spend the copious amounts of time and money in designing one." I know because I've contacted a few. Have a good day.

[gatorfast]

I agree with what others are saying that it's mainly demand based. Just venture over the the M3 forum for a day to see the difference in traffic from the 5 series forum.

As for why Dinan is more expensive, R&D is likely part of it but I think it mainly has to do with the fact that they offer a comprehensive warranty while other tuners are basically run it at your own risk.

[747flyboy]

Try Technica Motor Sports in Atlanta, speak to Brett . I was their first flash tune customer in 2012. Actually my 550i photo posted on their website link. Rather expensive $2200 but they are claiming 84 BHP.
Good luck.

http://www.enjoytechnica.com/product...0-550i-tuning/

Joe

[UA_civ_eng]

Originally Posted by USMC-BlackWidow

First of all, I wasn't attacking you or anything just validating what the other member was saying (which as you can see, people KNOW, but you don't seem to accept). DINAN was able to release whatever tune they could when it first came out because they have the capabilities from BMW to do so. But since you want to take it from an argument standpoint... You're getting butt hurt because you created a thread inquiring about who is developing flash tune when you've ALREADY done the research on the forums that there are none out or no longer being developed; then member BCK2BLN basically explains why there isn't any, sure some of it is opinionated but it's pretty spot on.

Crying about it wont make one appear.

Secondly, using terms such as 'homeslice' and the arrogance in your posts makes me realize what level you're on. It's a FORUM, people are going to have opinions. Especially when you make an original post along the lines of "I WANT...but I don't want to hear about what's already effectively available because I DON'T like the way it's done or how much it costs." But this argument is pretty pointless and childish so I'm not going to entertain it anymore. You spend your time R&D a flash tune if you don't like what's available or devote your time in contacting different tuners about the possibilities of developing a tune for the N63 and I'm pretty sure they would tell you what has already been said here... "It's something they're not used to dealing with and there isn't enough of a market to spend the copious amounts of time and money in designing one." I know because I've contacted a few. Have a good day.

I'm sorry. It's just that when I do get to crying, I get rude.