[grieverr]

I agree wholeheartedly with esquire. I know it's stupid, but I'm starting to think about "moving up" from a 3-series as I get older. To avoid writing an essay, let me just say that a 5-series coupe is right in line with what I'd like to buy next. I, too, would like to stay with BMW (for my 6th consecutive car), and this would be that perfect "next step".

[335iMIAMI]

Shit idea in my opinion , why is BMW trying to keep up and copy Mercedes and Audi? I thought BMW would lead and others follow.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by acorradi87

Yea, the e60 M5 was lacking big time cause it wasn't available in coupe form!!!

Oh wait... yes it was. The M6. Duh.

Originally Posted by Alpine325ci

def not an M6...heres how it goes. 3 series...M3.....5 series..M5....6 series...M6.

Alpine, the 6 series is the 5 series in two door form. The E62/63 was based off of the E60's chassis. Its whole purpose was to offer 5-series dimensions in two door form and sleekness.

Considering how similar all the current gen Bimmers are in terms of design, I don't see how making a 6 series and 5 series two door would make sense, considering they should be nearly identical if history is anything to go by.

[datbimmerdoe]

this is great news to me. (i know, it's called the m6, blah blah blah)

this is how i see it... the car industry is all about business and business is all about competition.
bmw should go forward with this simply to compete.

i mean use your imagination people and think about the possibilities... m5 coupe anyone? yes fucking please!

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Nikkahtropolis

Alpine, the 6 series is the 5 series in two door form. The E62/63 was based off of the E60's chassis. Its whole purpose was to offer 5-series dimensions in two door form and sleekness.

Unfortunately that's not true. The 6 series was designed as the heir-apparent to the 8 series, as member Scott26 mentions in the original post. I've never once seen or heard BMW refer to the 6 series as intended "to offer 5-series dimensions in two door form and sleekness." Not to mention, they don't share any form or sleekness. In the unlikely event that you have anything from BMW communicating anything along these lines, please share it with us.

Again as I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, the two cars share nothing in the way of design cues, nor in the way of their interior and spatial layout. The 6er is a 2+2, and the 5er is a 5 seater (and one would expect a 5 series coupe to be the same). Other than their engine, one would be hard pressed to find anything else of substance these two cars have in common. Even their respective ride-feels are notably different. Unfortunately, you're just off the mark here.

Originally Posted by Nikkahtropolis

Considering how similar all the current gen Bimmers are in terms of design, I don't see how making a 6 series and 5 series two door would make sense, considering they should be nearly identical if history is anything to go by.

The difference seems pretty apparent. Again, one would be a 2+2 seater coupe, the other would be a 5 seater coupe. One would appeal to the higher dollar purchaser who wants a grand tourer, while the other would appeal to the middle-dollared purchaser who wants 5 seater functionality, but with coupe looks.

If you don't see that as making sense, then you should be absolutely baffled by their now-approved-for-production BMW Gran Coupe - 4 door coupe. It seems that BMW's marketing strategy is to create more separation between the varying price points of their models (i.e. 1er, 3er, 5er, 6er, 7er, etc), but doing a better job of filling in niches within those price points so as to appeal to the broadest consumer base possible at each price point. Point and proof is once again the original post which states that the 6 series will separate itself with increased luxury and a correspondingly higher price point. But which one could reasonably estimate would share a similar price point to the Gran Coupe, and the 7 series. In other words, if you're a buyer with about 80-100k spending range, you now have 3 choices at BMW which could meet your needs.


I'm also miffed by the last sentence of your comment. What historical example do you have of BMW making its cars nearly identical to one another? Are you referring again to your 5series coupe = 6series argument?


-esquire

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by esquire

Unfortunately that's not true. The 6 series was designed as the heir-apparent to the 8 series, as member Scott26 mentions in the original post. I've never once seen or heard BMW refer to the 6 series as intended "to offer 5-series dimensions in two door form and sleekness." Not to mention, they don't share any form or sleekness. In the unlikely event that you have anything from BMW communicating anything along these lines, please share it with us.

Again as I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, the two cars share nothing in the way of design cues, nor in the way of their interior and spatial layout. The 6er is a 2+2, and the 5er is a 5 seater (and one would expect a 5 series coupe to be the same). Other than their engine, one would be hard pressed to find anything else of substance these two cars have in common. Even their respective ride-feels are notably different. Unfortunately, you're just off the mark here.




The difference seems pretty apparent. Again, one would be a 2+2 seater coupe, the other would be a 5 seater coupe. One would appeal to the higher dollar purchaser who wants a grand tourer, while the other would appeal to the middle-dollared purchaser who wants 5 seater functionality, but with coupe looks.

If you don't see that as making sense, then you should be absolutely baffled by their now-approved-for-production BMW Gran Coupe - 4 door coupe. It seems that BMW's marketing strategy is to create more separation between the varying price points of their models (i.e. 1er, 3er, 5er, 6er, 7er, etc), but doing a better job of filling in niches within those price points so as to appeal to the broadest consumer base possible at each price point. Point and proof is once again the original post which states that the 6 series will separate itself with increased luxury and a correspondingly higher price point. But which one could reasonably estimate would share a similar price point to the Gran Coupe, and the 7 series. In other words, if you're a buyer with about 80-100k spending range, you now have 3 choices at BMW which could meet your needs.


I'm also miffed by the last sentence of your comment. What historical example do you have of BMW making its cars nearly identical to one another? Are you referring again to your 5series coupe = 6series argument?


-esquire

I'm saying history as in last generation. Yes, the last 6 series was based off the previous 5er, but marketed with a different image. You don't need to remind me of their design distinctions that anyone short of being blind can recognize. I'm more into auto design than you'd probably realize.

Has BMW made a coupe that's seated more than 4 yet that's had a position higher than the 3 series? Not that I know of. If this is going to be a sleek 5 seater then I guess that's a niche BMW is willing to create. Perhaps they'll follow MB and make this a cheaper build based off of the upcoming 3-series architecture, like the new E-Coupe.

I don't see any info regarding this possible addition hinting at 5 seat capacity though. That could be the only key distinction besides luxury appointments.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Nikkahtropolis

I'm saying history as in last generation. Yes, the last 6 series was based off the previous 5er, but marketed with a different image. You don't need to remind me of their design distinctions that anyone short of being blind can recognize. I'm more into auto design than you'd probably realize.

Has BMW made a coupe that's seated more than 4 yet that's had a position higher than the 3 series? Not that I know of. If this is going to be a sleek 5 seater then I guess that's a niche BMW is willing to create. Perhaps they'll follow MB and make this a cheaper build based off of the upcoming 3-series architecture, like the new E-Coupe.

I don't see any info regarding this possible addition hinting at 5 seat capacity though. That could be the only key distinction besides luxury appointments.

The "key distinction" would be that one would be a 5 seater (or a 4 seater for that matter - time will tell), while the 6er as it stands now is a 2+2, with two virtually non-functional seats.

[ac328]

F10 coupe defeats the purpose, what do they think the 6 is for....LOL

[Norsk]

I think BMW should start doing infomercials.

They should also start branding BMW Performance Garbage bags.

Why not BMW Performance condoms while they are at it.

It would be great to come up with any garbage and expand in all directions like everybody else and slowly but surely bastardize the brand ... think GM, Chrysler and even for with Mercury, etc...

As long as their is a buck to make and some really really smart person out there will buy it (Think Aztek buyer) ... then they should build it.

Keep going BMW...

P.S.: Scott26; I'm sure they won't listen, but don't hesitate to pass it on ;-)

[esquire]

Scott26, aka Herr26 on Bimmerfile said, in a comment on the Bimmerfile article, that he doubts BMW will actually develop a 5er coupe. In his words:

"As for the current F10 it is an exercise but I do not think it will come to reality because of overall costs and proximity to both the next 3er and 6er Coupe , if anything the car although based on the matrix of the 5/6/7 will more likely be a “Z” car rather than a series Coupe."

His full comment can be found here: http://www.bimmerfile.com/2010/09/13...#comment-41042

- esquire

[etuoyo]

Don't understand people suggesting that a 5 series coupe is a 6 series. The 6 series looks absolutely nothing like a 5 series. No one on earth could look at the old 5 series and the current outgoing 6 series and say the 6 series is just the coupe of the old 5 series. The only external similarity is the bmw logo and front grills but even the grills look totally different.

For me it is a great idea.

[SCOTT26]

Had everything worked in a perfect world then we would be seeing a 5er Coupe and Cabrio had the original E34 proposals got the green-light.
But the world at that time was far from perfect.

BMW wanted the E34 to head off the attack of the Mercedes-Benz CE Coupe and Cabrio that later inherited the E-Klasse name.
BMW had intended to use the E34 Coupe and Cabrio as the in-between the 8er (E31) Coupe and Cabrio as the 6er (E24) was phased out.

Today that is practically covered by the 3er Coupe and the 6er Coupe.

[andrewt]

There is space for a 5 series coupe/cabrio - an E-coupe competitor except one that has the BMW driving pleaure rather than the soft retiree Mercedes or front wheel drive Audi. Especially if the 6 series is pushing up in price and status. It makes more sense than a 5 series GT for me.

Just make it lower, sleeker and sexier!

[Jim_in_Calgary]

So the product line could end up being:
1 coupe
1 sedan
3 sedan
3 coupe
5 sedan
5 coupe
6 coupe
6 sedan
gran-coupe
gran-coupe-coupe
7 sedan
7 coupe

[Lukeswarm]

Originally Posted by Jim_in_Calgary

So the product line could end up being:
1 coupe
1 sedan
3 sedan
3 coupe
5 sedan
5 coupe
6 coupe
6 sedan
gran-coupe
gran-coupe-coupe
7 sedan
7 coupe

And the Z's and the X's... Personally i sit on the side of the whats the point, i don't imagine them spending millions on redeveloping the 6 then more millions creating a 5 couple... they will be "concepts" for ever more

[mkoesel]

Oh no. It's way more complicated than that. If you take the sum total of SCOTT's past remarks, rumors/reports from other industry sources, and add in this new 5 coupe/cabrio information, you have:

1 series 3 door
1 series 5 door
1 series coupe
1 series cabrio
1 series Gran Coupe
1 series sedan?
1 series GT
1 series MPV

3 series sedan
3 series sedan LWB
3 series wagon
3 series coupe
3 series cabrio
3 series Gran Coupe
3 series GT
3 series MPV?

5 series sedan
5 series sedan LWB
5 series wagon
5 series coupe
5 series cabrio
5 series GT

6 series coupe
6 series cabrio
6 series Gran Coupe

7 series sedan
7 series sedan LWB

And that is ignoring, the possibilities for a Z2, Z6, X4, X2 as well. That's a lot of freakin cars.

I suppose the 5 coupe/cab make some sense if (sort of like SCOTT says) you think about the 6 series as a two-door 7 series rather than a two-door 5 series as we typically did in the past. But in that case, I'd expect a 5 series Gran Coupe as well, since that would seem to be the sweet spot in the market for such a car. Not to mention, V12 powered 6 series which we have yet to see. Finally, a 7 series wagon/GT should round out the market.

Originally Posted by Jim_in_Calgary

So the product line could end up being:
1 coupe
1 sedan
3 sedan
3 coupe
5 sedan
5 coupe
6 coupe
6 sedan
gran-coupe
gran-coupe-coupe
7 sedan
7 coupe

[RichReg]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

...unfortunately the world-wide recession was about to blow in killing the projects chances and with it some other propsals such as the 8er cabrio and M8 Super car.

Is this supposed to mean that we've just begun the long-awaited recovery and are right at the horizon of an incredible economic boom?

Guys, wake up.....a 5 Coupe ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

[Matski]

In theory I have no problem with the idea.

To me the 6 series has always been a 7-er coupe built on the 5-er platform, I believe this was certainly true for the E28/E24/E23 generation, and to a lesser extent the E60/E63/E65 generation.

The problem is they need to make sure that there is a good distinction between models, a model which is out and out a big two door with continent crushing capabilities (~think Ferrari 612), and a model which feels a lot smaller on the back-road blast. The current 6-er doesn't have the space to be the former, and is possibly a little to lardy to be the latter... and I get the impression that this will be the case with the new 6-er also, meaning a 5-er coupe will be left to be sportier and roomier... thats where I think it hurts the range... I may be wrong, we will see when the F12 is released.

In principal though, I will defend this model as much as every that BMW considering... BMW are offering choice, the more they divide the range down, the more options people can go for and still go to the BMW brand. Provided they can do this in a cost effective fashion, which It seems from what SCOTT says, they are heavily focused on sharing as much as possible to keep costs under control. My only worry is that they will spread themselves too thin, and they aren't developing the models that many enthusiasts are looking for, a Z2 (lightweight entry level sportscar), and a worthy range topper (a.k.a. Super Car).

At the end of the day though, people should be buying the cars because they serve the needs, and are desirable to the individual - this is why choice is better... and the fact that there are a wider variety of BMW's on the road DOES NOT detract from the quality of the models that the more cynical enthusiasts are keen on.

JOY IS CHOICE

[dlbrooks18]

^+1, hey it's always nice to have options

[Davin]

so will it literally be a F10 with 2 doors as a convertible or will they differentiate the 2 like the E90 & E92? it may look awkward...

[Eccentric]

BMW= Bavarian Mercedes Works?

[SCOTT26]

As BMW's CEO Herr Reithofer pointed out in his vision for the BMW Brand till 2020. Is that they will look at segments that will define exciting new concepts. And that a product push to new segments in on target after 2012.

Expanding the 5 is one idea. But we have been down this road so many times that I do not think they will finally give the go-ahead.

The key product push will be on the modular matrix which will be found underneath the 1er and 3er, as this will push BMW into new segments.
The 1er and 3er segments plus the MINI / City car segments are future areas for growth.

I drove a new F20 Sporthatch today and it feels good though far from finished , from the steering the car feels lighter even though it is slightly larger and for this base diesel model very good dynamics. The 1er begins the new push for product expansion.

One of which is the small city BMW shared with the new MINI. The good thing about this is they have the design right , it's unique , fresh , dynamic and stylish. One designer says to many it will be Blasphemy so why not make it a "sexy" kind of Blasphemy..

it is not a generic hatch it has a mixture of coupe and hatch. Although It will be treated as the "bastard child" because of it's drivetrain , it will be engineered to offer typical BMW attributes in dynamics and steering feel but in a new interpretation.

Will the car be as successful as the first MINI?
Personally, maybe not that lightning strikes twice. I dont think we will see something like the MINI again because not only was it the right car at the right time , but the brand embodied culture unlike any other car brand.
And since then all we have seen is cars trying to be the MINI but not living up to it's attributes.

BMW do not want their product to clash with the MINI that is why they will be different in how they market it.
I would think that it will find it's market because it is an entirely new concept and has the ability to do well. If it does take off as well as the first MINI then it will prove that the potential for a "reverse" BMW has a market.
And we will see several concepts expand the lower series.

The next X5 moves to an all aluminium modular platform which will be used within the next 5,6,7 etc. With the design freeze imminent it inherits a lot of typical X characteristics such as the rising window line and powerful body sculpture.

The BMW megacity vehicle will be our star for next Septembers IAA , again very futuristic stylish design more three-dimensional and using the layered philosophy. It's concept is very much a BMW Clubman with it's rear hinged doors and expanse of glass

The proposal for the Spyder Stradale is ongoing in competition between BMW's design studios across the world.

The X4 has been approved for a concept which will be shown in the not-so-distant future. Like the X6 from the X5 it shares the same philosophy with a lot taken from the X3.

The MINI Sport Activity Coupe is also charging ahead.

The BMW 3er Gran Turimso embodies the "Touring in Style" tag from the 5er but adds "fast" at the end as BMW have transformed the 3er GT into a sleeker 5dr Coupe (Think Concept CS or Mazda Shinari Concept) for the outline.

The Sport Tourers in Compactive (1er) and Advanced (3er) are seen as responses to demand for more flexibility with a typical BMW seen as a greater demand in Europe. Although they are not vans - The compactive is seen as a semi-commanding sporthatch with the advanced as a semi-commanding Touring.