[JOHNBMWM5]

I have the 19" Run Flat set up, BUT my car was supplied with Michelin Run Flats and they are very good and quiet.

[indus]

Originally Posted by 1HOT BMR

I don't know if you lose as much money as we lose here in the US when we sell a slightly used car but I'd like to suggest to you to replace the RFTs with Michelin Super Sport (they just became available here in the US), have an alignment done and ask the tech to give it as much toe-in as he can within the specs called for, and then drive it again. I would bet that you will like the steering a lot better and the ride problems will be cured. The worst than can happen is that you will be out another $1,500 in addition to what you are losing when you sell the car - but think of all the money you'll save if you happen to like it and keep the car

Do you have the 19" M sport tires and wheels?

Oh yes I will take a spanking if I sell the car now

I do have the 19 inch M sport tyre/wheel package.

I understand where you are coming from with your advice, I can also see how changing the RFT could greatly improve ride and that 'crashing' I describe.

But surely going from RFT to regular tyres won't improve the steering feel?


Thanks for your input

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by indus

Jon D I'd also disagree with your view that it has an excellent drive train. The engine is very good of course but the gearbox is not very responsive. I remember posting this as a separate thread when I first got the car and everybody told me off for not taking it easy with the car LOL

Anyway, now the car is run in I'm having the same problem. If I'm driving along and suddenly want to pull out of the lane I'm in I give the gas a good prod and nothing happens for what seems like an eternity. Of course its a second or so but thats enough to make me feel the manoeuvre is dangerous and sap my confidence.

In the same way if approaching a roundabout at slow speed I see that there is a car coming some distance from my right, I give the gas a good prod, again it takes too long to kick down a gear which means I enter the roundabout slowly. The result the car from the right has to brake. If my car had kicked down sooner I could have pulled that off without inconveniencing the other driver.

The result? I'm driving slower and more like an old man as being a considerate and safe driver is important to me.

Why don't I use the flappy paddles you might ask? Personally I think these are a waste of time in a diesel car. The rev range being what it is in a diesel means you will be changing gear every 3 secs in town driving, its too much hassle. Worked well in the M5 but then that had a huge rev range.

Try it in sport+, it'll take your breath away and put a huge smile on your face. There's no lag whatsoever - just instant response.

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by indus

Are you joking? I have the IAS and it is not tight and has zero feedback. With the sport auto in 'normal' setting it is diabolical. In sport setting it gets a little better but is still bad enough to mean anything approaching 'spirited' or 'sporty' driving is a no no.

This was confirmed in Top Gear's review - "....avoid the four-wheel active steering option; better manouevrability in car parks is exchanged for much worse feel and precision on B-roads."

[EdM5]

Originally Posted by Jon D

This was confirmed in Top Gear's review - "....avoid the four-wheel active steering option; better manouevrability in car parks is exchanged for much worse feel and precision on B-roads."

Yeah, like Top Gear is to be taken seriously.
Unless it's british, every car these guys test seems to be rubbish, especially if it's a Bimmer.
The show and the magazine is great fun though.

[indus]

Originally Posted by Jon D

Try it in sport+, it'll take your breath away and put a huge smile on your face. There's no lag whatsoever - just instant response.

This is where it gets a little complicated...

Obviously one doesn't want to drive in sport+/sport all the time due to fuel economy and the fact driving at high revs in traffic is uncomfortable.
It would be nice however to just flick the switch and have this facility when one needs the power (like a sport button on Merc and other gearboxes)

The problem is that the steering is so poor in normal mode that I need the steering in 'sports' setting all the time. As a result my set up configuration for the 'sports' setting is gearbox only. In this way as soon as I start up the car I toggle the selection switch to sports and have the steering to the lesser of two evils

So now to get the gearbox into the sports setting for the short periods of sporty driving I would need to go back into the idrive to reset the configurator and then do it all over again once I hit traffic again.

Sorry if I'm sounding overly fussy, but I just can't seem to get the best out of this car

[DuneMan]

Originally Posted by indus

This is where it gets a little complicated...

Obviously one doesn't want to drive in sport+/sport all the time due to fuel economy and the fact driving at high revs in traffic is uncomfortable.
It would be nice however to just flick the switch and have this facility when one needs the power (like a sport button on Merc and other gearboxes)

The problem is that the steering is so poor in normal mode that I need the steering in 'sports' setting all the time. As a result my set up configuration for the 'sports' setting is gearbox only. In this way as soon as I start up the car I toggle the selection switch to sports and have the steering to the lesser of two evils

So now to get the gearbox into the sports setting for the short periods of sporty driving I would need to go back into the idrive to reset the configurator and then do it all over again once I hit traffic again.

Sorry if I'm sounding overly fussy, but I just can't seem to get the best out of this car

You're not alone on the steering and transmission issues.

Is it just me, or are 535's having more issues than 550's?

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by indus

This is where it gets a little complicated...

Obviously one doesn't want to drive in sport+/sport all the time due to fuel economy and the fact driving at high revs in traffic is uncomfortable.
It would be nice however to just flick the switch and have this facility when one needs the power (like a sport button on Merc and other gearboxes)

The problem is that the steering is so poor in normal mode that I need the steering in 'sports' setting all the time. As a result my set up configuration for the 'sports' setting is gearbox only. In this way as soon as I start up the car I toggle the selection switch to sports and have the steering to the lesser of two evils

So now to get the gearbox into the sports setting for the short periods of sporty driving I would need to go back into the idrive to reset the configurator and then do it all over again once I hit traffic again.

Sorry if I'm sounding overly fussy, but I just can't seem to get the best out of this car

I have 'sport' mode configured to chassis only, that way I get quicker steering with minimum body roll, but retain all 8 gears.
However, I do agree that the gearbox doesn't downshift quickly enough, so whenever I want that, I flick to 'sport+' or move the selector sideways.
I know it's far from perfect and, like you, I dislike the lifeless steering, but the car does have many other virtues which almost compensate.

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by indus

I will send a similar email to BMW and let them know that I am selling the f10 after only 2 months of ownership. I'm sure they won't give a toss about one customer like me but I think it will make me feel better.

The F10 is a fantastically well put together car, the quality is amazing. But the combination of vague steering and RFT just means it is not a drivers car imho.

Although I'll probably hang onto my F10 until it's at least a year old, I'll be selling for the same reasons as you.
In the meantime I too will write to BMW. As you say, they probably won't give a toss about the odd one or two negative reviews, but if more of us write, especially in a calm and measured tone, they may eventually take notice.

['17 750i Msport]

Is this steering issue 'heightened' because of the active steering option. Drove a 550i M sport and the steering didn't seem that bad at all. Granted it was only a 20 minute test drive.

[indus]

Thanks Jon and Duneman.

11 Bimmer, yes I think IAS makes it worse. I test drove a 530d prior to buying and the steering on that (when in sport auto mode) felt ok, not great but not bad.(It did not have IAS)

Stupidly I specced IAS!!

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by AP

Got a E39 530i mSport was thinking to change to a F10.

Whatever you do, don't get rid of the E39. Best car BMW ever made!

[delvek]

Originally Posted by indus

Thanks Jon and Duneman.

11 Bimmer, yes I think IAS makes it worse. I test drove a 530d prior to buying and the steering on that (when in sport auto mode) felt ok, not great but not bad.(It did not have IAS)

Stupidly I specced IAS!!

My March 2011 build 550i has IAS and its straight as an arrow and its handling is fantastic.

[pyramid]

--delete

[1HOT BMR]

Originally Posted by delvek

My March 2011 build 550i has IAS and its straight as an arrow and its handling is fantastic.

Mine is the same, it tracks beautifully with no wandering whatsoever and it handles like a dream with lots of feedback - i.e. I know exactly what the tires are doing when I push it. I'm inclined to think that people who complain about the steering feel in general and IAS in particular have an issue and my guess is that it is alignment and that the steering feel must be very susceptible to changes in alignment - otherwise, how do we explain such opposite views on the subject? Tires can make a big difference too but RFTs are RFTs = all terrible IMO. Could it be Michelin vs. Good Year? Summer vs. All Season? Perhaps those of us who like it just don't know what good handling is and those who hate it do

[EdM5]

Originally Posted by indus

yes I think IAS makes it worse.

Stupidly I specced IAS!!

Don't worry too much about it Indus.

My experience with IAS is:
1) In urban traffic, it makes the car feel smaller, like you're driving a 3 series. Not a bad thing as a lot of F10 owners are coming from an e90/e46/e36, and they tend to romanticize those cars. Like myself
2) At (very) high speed it makes the car less nervous and more steady. That was obviously one of the design objectives in the first place.

But, as it's been said before, it is a matter of personal preference if you like it or not.

[delvek]

Originally Posted by EdwinF10

Don't worry too much about it Indus.

My experience with IAS is:
1) In urban traffic, it makes the car feel smaller, like you're driving a 3 series. Not a bad thing as a lot of F10 owners are coming from an e90/e46/e36, and they tend to romanticize those cars. Like myself
2) At (very) high speed it makes the car less nervous and more steady. That was obviously one of the design objectives in the first place.

But, as it's been said before, it is a matter of personal preference if you like it or not.

Well said Edwin. Living in Germany I exercise lots of 1 and 2 and couldn't agree more with your summation. I added the IAS solely for #2 my wife asked for it solely for #1 ... it all boils down to personal preference as you state and from the success of the F10 despite this being my 2nd, I think BMW got it perfect.

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by 1HOT BMR

....and my guess is that it is alignment and that the steering feel must be very susceptible to changes in alignment - otherwise, how do we explain such opposite views on the subject? Tires can make a big difference too but RFTs are RFTs = all terrible IMO. Could it be Michelin vs. Good Year? Summer vs. All Season? Perhaps those of us who like it just don't know what good handling is and those who hate it do

I agree with your thinking on alignment and it was the first thing I suspected to be contributing to my car's tendency to wander off-line in the straight ahead cruise.
My dealer carried out a full KDS alignment check last November and found one or two minor discrepancies of a few minutes here or there and I had high hopes that the correction would improve the steering, but it was not to be.
The car was recently in for a steering software update, but once again my hopes were ill founded and the on-center steering feel remains as uncommunicative as it was.
You could well be right about switching to non-RFT's, but with the tyres hardly worn it's a bit of an expensive leap of faith at the moment. I'll switch if and when they're worn to the point of changing, but I don't think I'll be keeping the car that long.

[GordonGecko]

First off,

Sorry to hear that you are not enjoying your new car as much as you hoped. I think that you are correct to assess you made at least one, if not two critical mistakes in speccing your car, at least as far as your driving tastes go: 1) 4 wheel steer and 2) relatively large alloys with the RFT. In my opinion both detract from the best possible driving experience.

Frankly you should have tested cars with both of these options before spending >£43,000. However I am sympathetic as I know it is not easy when the dealers are not able to stock sufficient numbers of demos with all the option combinations. However, I at least, was able to test drive cars with both 19s/RFT and 4wsteer before deciding my spec, albeit with these options on different cars. It is also hard on dealers when the have to compete with online competition nowadays. This is why I gave my dealer fair chance to compete on
price.

The advice you got from our buddy in the US concerning switching from RFT tyres on 19s is great advice and would certainly make a surprisingly positive improvement in ride quality. It would also improve handling. However I believe it would make only marginal / hardly noticeable impact on steering feel / communication. That you are stuck with. It sounds like that is a show stopper to you: so stop that agonising. Get rid of it! I imagine there are plenty of folks on this forum that would be interested to buy the car from you. Also I see you have had an M5. Why not do a part ex on an new M5 when they come out, funds permitting? Or part ex your car for one on 18"s and 2 wheel steer?

The world is your mollousc!

[04S]

I agree, a 535d is not going to be an M car and no one should expect it to be. Granted, there may well be steering deficiencies in some members 5ers, but keep fighting to get them fixed. The reality is that even when they are fixed it is never going to be a sports car (apart from the f10 M5 of course) and you should not expect it to be. If you want sublime steering feel and handling drive an M car. If you want better than average steering feel and handling drive a non-M BMW. If you don't care, drive something else.

[plusman]

I just thought I'd share my thoughts.

I have a F10 520d M-Sport (normal auto box, no AD or VDC; so it is at whatever settings BMW set it at) which replaced my previous E60 530d M-Sport (also normal auto box, no AD or VDC). I also have a E93 330i M-sport Convertible (normal auto box, no AD or VDC).

One of the main issues I had with my old E60 was that the suspension was very, very stiff - bone-jarring stiff when driving over UK potholes. Also, in comparison with the E93, the E93 sport suspension was much softer and not as skittish over potholes compared to ther E60.

However the steering was very involving and direct with good feedback.

I find the M-Sport suspension in the F10 a lot softer and more forgiving than in the E60, and much prefer the F10 M-Sport suspension overall as . However this comes at the price of more body roll in corners; it is just not as sharp as the E60 was. It is however better than a 530SE F10 that I test drove last year - it seemed to have much more body roll; so the M-Sport suspension certainly sharpens it up.

As regards the steering, it is certainly much vaguer and less involving on the F10; not too bad on motorways, but you do notice it in the corners.

Overall though I am very pleased with the F10 - particularly the interior.

BTW have you noticed in the UK that the windscreen wipers are now "normal" i.e. they sweep towards the driver (RHD) side of the car; unlike in the past two 5-series version (E60 and E39) where they were set-up for LHD. However the sweep of the wipers still leaves a big area of the screen uncleared.

[Curious]

I'm a newbie to this forum. I have quite recently put a deposit down on a new 530d m sport. I have been searching the forums for a report on the m sport variant (without adaptive drive). Plusman, I have found your post very helpful in that regard. It leaves me a bit worried 'though about whether, after my current coupe which has been a wonderful car to drive, I'm going to be dissatisfied with the lack of feedback on the steering. I had a short test drive on an m sport and found it infinitely better to drive than the SE, which actually left me cold. Plusman, with the benefit of hindsight, would you still have ordered the F10? Is the car fluid on bends but with a bit of body roll or does it feel unwieldy? Is the vagueness of the steering spoiling your enjoyment of the car? Did you consider the AD option? How long have you had the car?

A reply would be greatly appreciated.