[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by ARadoncic550

Mike, these dyno numbers arrested funky. The baseline stock numbers are low because the stage 1 tune was removed as the car was being strapped on to the dyno to show lower numbers. Then the stage 1 was put back on to show higher numbers. Great way to sell a product let me tell you.
My question is.. Why wasn't the car just dynoed while the stage 1 was already one and fully adapted? Instead of removing it as the car was being strapped on lol. Funky!! I call it false advertising.

This is a really odd crowd. False advertising for a same day before and after dyno? The other guy thinks 400whp at redline vs. 350whp at redline stock is a horrible tune? I'm really starting to feel sorry for the tuners trying to help you guys.

For that dyno posted they did runs with the orignal tuning of which the best is shown here. Then runs with the tuning in place adjusting settings as they went of which the best is shown. Runs were done on the same dyno, same car, fuel fuel, same day, to evaluate how much power the TUNING was adding.

Looking at the dyno time stamps a few tuned runs were done when it was strapped down and then a few stock runs in between then a few more tuned runs after. The ones done after must have been at a higher setting as they were 10-15hp higher than the first ones done.

A few days later they did a few runs on another 550i. A few runs stock and a few runs tuned. That dyno from a completely different car is attached.

Mike

[combatbmw]

Mike it was same day. Both 550s. And please don't say "guys"
What someone or some people say doesn't = guys.

I'm happy with the bms tune. I personally never said the tune was bad. I blamed the ecu adjusting. And stated it was my opinion. I'm no tuner so my opinion isn't even credible.

Am I happy with the fact that my car loses 60hp from 5k to 6500 no.
Did I ever blame bms.. NO.
What people read from posts and how they take it and reply is their choice.

Until this post from arc I thought my downpipes were causing my power loss. And because of that spent over 300 dollars at different dynos to weed out the issues of it being a bad dyno day. Car spent 2 weeks at the downpipes company for testing.

To find out now it may of never been the downpipes but the car itself.

Anyways. " Crowd / guys " isn't the word you should be using.

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

This is a really odd crowd. False advertising for a same day before and after dyno? The other guy thinks 400whp at redline vs. 350whp at redline stock is a horrible tune? I'm really starting to feel sorry for the tuners trying to help you guys.

For that dyno posted they did runs with the orignal tuning of which the best is shown here. Then runs with the tuning in place adjusting settings as they went of which the best is shown. Runs were done on the same dyno, same car, fuel fuel, same day, to evaluate how much power the TUNING was adding.

Looking at the dyno time stamps a few tuned runs were done when it was strapped down and then a few stock runs in between then a few more tuned runs after. The ones done after must have been at a higher setting as they were 10-15hp higher than the first ones done.

A few days later they did a few runs on another 550i. A few runs stock and a few runs tuned. That dyno from a completely different car is attached.

Mike

[badblack550xi]

i dynoed my car with the tune on.. i did pulls with 4 PSI 2.25 and 0 PSI over stock i never took off my tune from the car and i had the following results... that's on a humid summer day.
this was all done on a all wheel drive Mustang dyno.
Stock Numbers: 354.9 / 394

BMS Stage 1 as it comes stock: 390/ 412.4

BMS stage 1 + 4 PSI: 421.5/ 467.9

As you can see stage 1 gives you 35WHP and 18WTQ

+4 gives you 67WHP and 74WTQ

[scott135i]

This thread's humor continues.

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

You're joking right? You know the OEM makes MUCH less power up top than the Stage1 tune? The DME is sloping power down on some Tu motors due to an internal mapping both stock and tuned. You still make much more power than stock though.

Correct... not sure why this is being missed.

---

Until I see more cars not losing power (which is more normal than not for these engines) over 6k rpm, I would err on the side of caution in terms of the one car having higher numbers over 6k either reading incorrectly or the ecu logic doing something not expected (but welcome).

---

Originally Posted by alextremo

I would expect that without 'direct' control over timing the tune is aggressively ramping down boost at higher RPMs to avoid detonation.

Correct, except it's the ecu, not the actual Stage 1 tuner boxes (which are only intercepting a single sensor type) ramping down boost/timing/fuel (some combo of that) in those conditions.


---

More people will start to dyno and run their cars at the track as summer approaches. Time will tell.

[badblack550xi]

you guys sound like a bunch of spoiled little girls... WA WA WA the car my daddy got me is the wrong color... don't like the BMS tune sell it and get something else and if there is nothing shut up or drive stock....
no one miss advertised anything... elevation, humidity, temps, low quality gas all play a big role... so no dyno will ever be identical.

[ARC550]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

This is a really odd crowd. False advertising for a same day before and after dyno? The other guy thinks 400whp at redline vs. 350whp at redline stock is a horrible tune? I'm really starting to feel sorry for the tuners trying to help you guys.

For that dyno posted they did runs with the orignal tuning of which the best is shown here. Then runs with the tuning in place adjusting settings as they went of which the best is shown. Runs were done on the same dyno, same car, fuel fuel, same day, to evaluate how much power the TUNING was adding.

Looking at the dyno time stamps a few tuned runs were done when it was strapped down and then a few stock runs in between then a few more tuned runs after. The ones done after must have been at a higher setting as they were 10-15hp higher than the first ones done.

A few days later they did a few runs on another 550i. A few runs stock and a few runs tuned. That dyno from a completely different car is attached.

Mike

Mike, that dyno looks nice! There is no drop off in power like the other dunks I saw. Wow... The power seems consistent and compared to the rest it is higher then stock after 5k RPM lol

[combatbmw]

My newest dyno numbers:
MAX HP 463 // MAX TQ 508 STD
MAX HP 451 // MAX TQ 493 SAE
MAX power RPM = 5100
From 5200-6500 power drops off.
by 6k making 400hp until 6500rpms.
Weather 85-90 Degrees.

[PhilT3]

Lol. This thread is funny.

Thanks for all the work guys.

I have NO experience with turbo motors... But a N/A motor will peak out and then start to fall off at a point higher in the RPM range.

Isn't the stock motor showing a similar power curve, but with just less power across the range?

Question with respect - how much racing and and engine tuning experience do you guys have? Has anyone ever built and or tuned a motor / car? Just trying to understand the background of the community here.

[combatbmw]

Originally Posted by PhilT3

Lol. This thread is funny.

Thanks for all the work guys.

I have NO experience with turbo motors... But a N/A motor will peak out and then start to fall off at a point higher in the RPM range.

Isn't the stock motor showing a similar power curve, but with just less power across the range?

Question with respect - how much racing and and engine tuning experience do you guys have? Has anyone ever built and or tuned a motor / car? Just trying to understand the background of the community here.

Thats what we are trying to figure out. The power curve.

3 Mustangs, 03 gt with 250 shot NOS full drag suspension.
04 SVT Kenny bell 2.4 641rwhp 91 octane
08 Shelby gt500 750+rwhp Whipple supercharger.

what about u?

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by ARadoncic550

Mike, that dyno looks nice! There is no drop off in power like the other dunks I saw. Wow... The power seems consistent and compared to the rest it is higher then stock after 5k RPM lol

Yes some n63tu's nose off stock and some don't. Since the Stage1 tune is basically following the DME's performance profile only increasing it then if your car drops power to redline as a result of DME torque intervention from the factory then the tuned power drops up there as well.

During the drop off event the DME is not changing it's air/fuel ratio, and it's not lowering spark advance, it's reducing its torque target. Which means less boost. It would be interesting to know if this is DCT specific or comes up on MT cars also. Maybe as more dynos come in that can be determined.

It's possible BMS may release an n63tu Stage2 tune that ignores the DME's request for lower torque targets up there but given the amount of R&D it would take vs. the low potential for tune sales compared to other platforms they could be spending their time on they won't commit to making a Stage2 for the n63tu at this time. And reading the whining in this thread by some isn't going to motivate anyone to want to get more involved with this platform. Still, with the n63tu Stage1, bolting on ~50whp for $600 and two minutes of your time is not a bad proposition compared to say Dinan that is $2500 and gives only around half of that gain. So enjoy what you have and hope more tuners come around to encourage BMS to also spend more time with it.

Mike

[badblack550xi]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Yes some n63tu's nose off stock and some don't. Since the Stage1 tune is basically following the DME's performance profile only increasing it then if your car drops power to redline as a result of DME torque intervention from the factory then the tuned power drops up there as well.

During the drop off event the DME is not changing it's air/fuel ratio, and it's not lowering spark advance, it's reducing its torque target. Which means less boost. It would be interesting to know if this is DCT specific or comes up on MT cars also. Maybe as more dynos come in that can be determined.

It's possible BMS may release an n63tu Stage2 tune that ignores the DME's request for lower torque targets up there but given the amount of R&D it would take vs. the low potential for tune sales compared to other platforms they could be spending their time on they won't commit to making a Stage2 for the n63tu at this time. And reading the whining in this thread by some isn't going to motivate anyone to want to get more involved with this platform. Still, with the n63tu Stage1, bolting on ~50whp for $600 and two minutes of your time is not a bad proposition compared to say Dinan that is $2500 and gives only around half of that gain. So enjoy what you have and hope more tuners come around to encourage BMS to also spend more time with it.

Mike

What he said.

[Alan l.]

I am no dyno expert but looking at the official technical specs of the N64TU from BMW the graph follows the same pattern where torque starts to dip at about 4500-5K rpm and HP drops towards the end. The scaling is different and BMW's numbers are at the crank but you get the general idea.



You guys can find this posted in this full document here:
http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=900836

Is they DME adapting to the JB negatively? Possible but we need to see more bone stock dynos to see how the power curve looks to be sure before jumping to conclusions. Considering the JB S1 is only $600 and takes seriously 2minutes to install this is still a huge performance value imo. Like I tell everyone its not a tune. Its going to drive exactly like it did stock except with more power. That is until you reach the DME's limit where it could then cause issues because it could think something is wrong. Otherwise it will behave just like stock but with more umph.

Either way we have ZERO options for this platform as it currently stands besides these piggyback style "tunes". Cracking and rewriting code in the DME isn't going to happen overnight. Just think even for the bread and butter 3 series platform there still isn't any flash tunes for the N55 335 yet. The 5 series isn't exactly high on anyone's list to tune unfortunately.

Alan

[scott135i]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

I am no dyno expert but looking at the official technical specs of the N64TU from BMW the graph follows the same pattern where torque starts to dip at about 4500-5K rpm and HP drops towards the end. The scaling is different and BMW's numbers are at the crank but you get the general idea.


Is they DME adapting to the JB negatively? Possible but we need to see more bone stock dynos to see how the power curve looks to be sure before jumping to conclusions. Considering the JB S1 is only $600 and takes seriously 2minutes to install this is still a huge performance value imo. Like I tell everyone its not a tune. Its going to drive exactly like it did stock except with more power. That is until you reach the DME's limit where it could then cause issues because it could think something is wrong. Otherwise it will behave just like stock but with more umph.

Either way we have ZERO options for this platform as it currently stands besides these piggyback style "tunes". Cracking and rewriting code in the DME isn't going to happen overnight. Just think even for the bread and butter 3 series platform there still isn't any flash tunes for the N55 335 yet. The 5 series isn't exactly high on anyone's list to tune unfortunately.

Alan

Well said, re: stock dyno. People's expectations are a bit too high. Blame your stock ECU tuning. No question on the value for S1 for the TU, more so than the non-TU...

PS... need some more dynos to really compare. And folks dyno'ing need to have some dynos on stock with the tune removed, as well as with the tune back in. Only way to really tell if its more the ECU itself and its mapping, or more its reaction and adaptation to the S1 setup.

[combatbmw]

Go dyno your car Alan!

Originally Posted by Alan l.

I am no dyno expert but looking at the official technical specs of the N64TU from BMW the graph follows the same pattern where torque starts to dip at about 4500-5K rpm and HP drops towards the end. The scaling is different and BMW's numbers are at the crank but you get the general idea.



You guys can find this posted in this full document here:
http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=900836

Is they DME adapting to the JB negatively? Possible but we need to see more bone stock dynos to see how the power curve looks to be sure before jumping to conclusions. Considering the JB S1 is only $600 and takes seriously 2minutes to install this is still a huge performance value imo. Like I tell everyone its not a tune. Its going to drive exactly like it did stock except with more power. That is until you reach the DME's limit where it could then cause issues because it could think something is wrong. Otherwise it will behave just like stock but with more umph.

Either way we have ZERO options for this platform as it currently stands besides these piggyback style "tunes". Cracking and rewriting code in the DME isn't going to happen overnight. Just think even for the bread and butter 3 series platform there still isn't any flash tunes for the N55 335 yet. The 5 series isn't exactly high on anyone's list to tune unfortunately.

Alan

[Alan l.]

I plan to meet up with Scott at some point to dyno but with a baby and all this snow/cold weather dynoing my car isn't exactly top priority.

Alan

[combatbmw]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

I plan to meet up with Scott at some point to dyno but with a baby and all this snow/cold weather dynoing my car isn't exactly top priority.

Alan

Understandable.

I made time out of no time. I was curious. But the dyno was close by 1hr drive. So it wasn't a big deal.

My gas station job permits alot of time!

[Mbbrewer]

Originally Posted by badblack550xi

exhaust and stage 2 do you even read what i write......

Geez man. You're clearly not comprehending what I'm asking. I'm asking if you think the addition of the exhaust is enough to get you into the 11's with stage one. I'm curious if the exhaust is a power upgrade or if it's just for sound.

[badblack550xi]

Originally Posted by Mbbrewer

Geez man. You're clearly not comprehending what I'm asking. I'm asking if you think the addition of the exhaust is enough to get you into the 11's with stage one. I'm curious if the exhaust is a power upgrade or if it's just for sound.

well i wont be running on stage 1 when im at the track so i cannot tell you.... or should i run stage 1 for the last time and then swap to stage 2 at the track ?

[ARC550]

Black. Stage 2 all the way.

[badblack550xi]

Originally Posted by ARadoncic550

Black. Stage 2 all the way.

go to sleep!

[combatbmw]

Originally Posted by badblack550xi

go to sleep!

I took off tune today, and tomorrow putting stock downpipes on and dynoing
Just for shitz see what my car does stock.

here is what I do stock tune with downpipes and Bms with downpipes:
85-90 degree day. Tomorrow Ill be dynoing bone stock, see what happens. I wanna see what the downpipes gains are.

[Mbbrewer]

Originally Posted by badblack550xi

well i wont be running on stage 1 when im at the track so i cannot tell you.... or should i run stage 1 for the last time and then swap to stage 2 at the track ?

I think it would be beneficial to the community to see what incremental benefit each modification adds. I'd love to see what, if any, benefit the exhaut adds.