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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 F10 Technical Topics Wheels / Tires / Suspension / Brakes Hub centric rings necessary?
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      05-20-2017, 11:16 AM   #1
matt21484
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Hub centric rings necessary?

I just bought a square 20x8.5 setup of Niche Targa (M129) from Need4Speed and had them installed with new tires at a local tire shop that has done work on my wife's car. I've never had an issue with this place before, but this was not a good experience. Day 1 I could tell the balancing was off. Steering wheel had a lot of vibrations at medium(40mph+). I can't get the car back in until 2 days later, but they take it in, say the machine wasn't calibrated and rebalance them. I take it home and it's night and day difference, but these are local roads 40-60mph max. Next day I get on highway and it's still vibrating at highway speeds (70mph+). Fast forward to today and I've taken the car back in. Shop is saying I need hub centric rings. I tell them that's odd (in a polite way, not being an ass or anything) b/c the manufacturer says they are already hub centric. But they are insistent on that is what my issue is.
I'm new to wheels and all and have never installed a tire to a wheel in my life, but my googling skills are above average. I know I can't just go and order hub centric rings without knowing what the original diameter of the wheel is and what it should measure down to and that it's usually in mm. But they don't really give me this info off the bat and when I ask they give me 2 7/8" which is about 73 mm. So long story short, is it normal to hub centric wheels to need rings? I'm about to call N4S and ask them (they open in a few minutes).
Now, the other thing my google searches turned up is a link to locate Road Force balancing shops (http://www.gsp9700.com/search/findgsp9700.cfm). The shop I used isn't listed, should I bite the bullet and go to a different place and pay them to do a "road force" balance and try that out before attempting to order rings?
Apologies for the long winded post, I'm trying to get a bit of guidance on where to go next. This is only my second foray into aftermarket wheels and the first time that it hasn't gone well.
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      05-20-2017, 11:08 PM   #2
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If your wheels are hubcentric then there is no way to put hubcentric rings. You didnt mention what tires you bought, are they quality tires or did you get the low priced cheapo tirses. You could have a bad tire or one the wheels are not true, try to find a shop that will let you see the wheels spin on the balancer and look for yourself. You will see a bad tire or wheel hopping as it spins. The only problem is finding a shop that will let you in the "sacred back area" with the "tire monkeys" to see them spin. Once you can verify the condition of your wheel and tire package then you'll know how to proceed.
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      05-20-2017, 11:17 PM   #3
matt21484
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Hi and thanks for the reply. Tires are BFGoodrich G-Force Comp 2 A/S in 245/35/20. The hub centric ring conversation threw me off as well since they wheels are supposed to be hub centric themselves. I didn't know if it's possible or common for 3rd party manufacturers to goof up on stuff like this or not and how to proceed.
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      05-21-2017, 02:42 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Teddylongtooth View Post
If your wheels are hubcentric then there is no way to put hubcentric rings..
Not all together true. My last car's wheels were hub-centric and the bore of the aftermarket wheels I purchased was larger than the car's hub. It was a bear finding the right centering rings and in the end I purchased a set of Jaguar wheels as the hubs and wheel bore were the same.
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      05-21-2017, 04:11 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc View Post
Not all together true. My last car's wheels were hub-centric and the bore of the aftermarket wheels I purchased was larger than the car's hub. It was a bear finding the right centering rings and in the end I purchased a set of Jaguar wheels as the hubs and wheel bore were the same.
If his wheels are hubcentric to his car then he can't possibly put hubcentric rings, he stated his wheel bore is about 73mm, the f10's hub diameter is 72.5mm. They dont make .5mm hubcentric rings, therefore he can't use them. If your wheels were a larger bore than the hubs, they were not hubcentric to your vehicle. Amost all wheels are hubcentric.
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      05-21-2017, 04:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddylongtooth View Post
If his wheels are hubcentric to his car then he can't possibly put hubcentric rings, he stated his wheel bore is about 73mm, the f10's hub diameter is 72.5mm. They dont make .5mm hubcentric rings, therefore he can't use them. If your wheels were a larger bore than the hubs, they were not hubcentric to your vehicle. Amost all wheels are hubcentric.
Maybe European. AFAIK most American cars are lug centric. My Lincoln LS (more in common with the Jaguar S-Type than any other Ford product) was the first car I owned that was hub-centric.

Anyway, you're correct (as if you need me to verify that); there aren't rings that small. I guess they could be custom-made... but why for .5mm?
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      05-21-2017, 04:36 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc View Post
...there aren't rings that small. I guess they could be custom-made... but why for .5mm?
This pretty much sums up my original question. So should next steps be call for replacement or go to new shop? There's a bmw dealer by my office I'm thinking about ponying up to have them do the balance and be my guidance on new wheels or a proper balance job
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      05-21-2017, 05:25 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by matt21484 View Post
This pretty much sums up my original question. So should next steps be call for replacement or go to new shop? There's a bmw dealer by my office I'm thinking about ponying up to have them do the balance and be my guidance on new wheels or a proper balance job
Balancing won't cure a gap between the wheel and hub bore. That said, .5mm is negligible and shouldn't be a problem. I just checked, the actual difference is .1mm. Are the wheels true? Did they check? Did they clean up the hub before installing the wheels? Yes, you should get a road-force balance and have them tell/give you the values. BFG's have been known to have high values.
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      05-21-2017, 05:56 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc View Post
Balancing won't cure a gap between the wheel and hub bore. That said, .5mm is negligible and shouldn't be a problem. I just checked, the actual difference is .1mm. Are the wheels true? Did they check? Did they clean up the hub before installing the wheels? Yes, you should get a road-force balance and have them tell/give you the values. BFG's have been known to have high values.
No idea if wheels are true or not as I didn't ask the shop to check. They were brand new, but who knows. Will call the bmw shop and ask if they will take a look. What do you mean by "BFG's have been known to have high values"?
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      05-21-2017, 07:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt21484 View Post
No idea if wheels are true or not as I didn't ask the shop to check. They were brand new, but who knows. Will call the bmw shop and ask if they will take a look. What do you mean by "BFG's have been known to have high values"?
High values or high numbers. Did you see this?

http://www.tirereview.com/when-is-it-overkill/
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      05-21-2017, 07:23 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt21484 View Post
No idea if wheels are true or not as I didn't ask the shop to check. They were brand new, but who knows. Will call the bmw shop and ask if they will take a look. What do you mean by "BFG's have been known to have high values"?
Bfg's aren't known for being low tolerance, as in they wont be as round as a michelin or a continental, even thou Bfg's are made by michelin. They are lower quality as in how they are molded, but they are still better than the cheap Chinese tires. As far as balance is concerned, All tires and wheels have a heavy spot and a good tire shop will rotate the 2 heavy spots 180 degrees from each other to help cancel out the heavy spots. You should find a good shop that will look for an out of round tire, check the wheels for excessive runout and account for the heavy spots by rotating the tire on the rim and rebalance to keep the weights used to a minimum. The dealership might be able to do all this but Im not sure, a phone call would help before heading down there.
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      05-22-2017, 10:48 PM   #12
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First, you need to find a shop that will do a true road force balance. The results will be in pounds. If any are higher than 10 lbs, you will have vibration. Many shops will use the Hunter in a Quick Match mode to save time, but by doing so the road force is not minimized. Keep in mind when a tire/wheel is balanced, there is still some road force that can't be eliminated. Less than 10 lbs is good, over might be ok on other vehicles, but not this chassis.
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      05-25-2017, 10:22 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by snj1013 View Post
First, you need to find a shop that will do a true road force balance. The results will be in pounds. If any are higher than 10 lbs, you will have vibration. Many shops will use the Hunter in a Quick Match mode to save time, but by doing so the road force is not minimized. Keep in mind when a tire/wheel is balanced, there is still some road force that can't be eliminated. Less than 10 lbs is good, over might be ok on other vehicles, but not this chassis.
Thanks, have a balance scheduled for this Saturday at the local BMW dealer.
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