[Diesel_Lover]

I have purchased Three BMWs in my life, and all of them had fog lights included in the base model.

I am purchasing a new 535dx, and I can't afford all the options. I wish I could because they are all great, and I am green with envy of those of you who can, but since I will probably be driving a grey car. You won't be able to tell, but I digress.

I use fog lights on rare occasions, but when they are needed; they are really needed. They are an important safety feature, and should be standard equipment on any car, especially a luxury sports sedan.

Now for someone who has to make hard choices on options, I am forced to buy an upgrade line to get a basic piece of safety equipment like fog lights.

The upgrade lines offer styling alternatives at an additional cost of $2,100 for luxury and modern lines, and $3,100 for the M-Sport Line.

Out of these three lines only one of them has any resale value, and that is the M-Sport line. Partly because it adds optional equipment: Like paddle shifters and passive suspension, and it has a distinctive look other than added fog lights.

If BMW added fog lights, as an option, to the base car; I don't think one person would buy the Luxury Line or the Modern Line, and that is why they don't offer it as an option on the base car.

It is an artificial way to boost the base price of the car. Most of us who drive BMWs are used to having fog lights. It gives the car a distinctive look, and a sometimes needed safety feature.

I don't see how they justify taking away a base car feature, like fog lights, and then including them in an upgrade line that adds 2k to the price. When the only thing it offers that most people want is fog lights.

I feel like BMW is Picking me up by the ankles and shaking the change out of my pockets with this move.

It also has the affect of leaving me with less choice for options because I have to spend an extra 2k to get fog lights.

Also if you get the M-Sport Package, which is arguably worth getting and you get X-Drive. You lose the passive suspension that the M-Sport offers on RWD models.

So, that means you really need the DHP (Dynamic Handling Package) to have a true sports sedan, and with 2k spent on fog lights that could have been spent on DHP. That leaves us folks struggling to get into the mid-level luxury market.

We are left driving boats, rather than flat cornering sports sedans or driving our flat cornering sports sedans off a cliff, because we can't see through the fog.

Quit with the marketing games. This isn't the way BMW has behaved in the past. It feels like you are picking up some of the bad marketing schemes American car companies have used in the past, and is why I now drive foreign cars.

I now have to question when you add features: Is this a gimmick to gain profit, or is this a real enhancement to the car?

I never had to ask that question of BMW in the past.

The re-badging of the 530d to the 535d in the U.S. is further evidence of this type of profit driven thinking. It changes the standard badging based on engine displacement to a standard based on marketing and profit.

BMW, give us the option of fog lights on the base car, please.

OR

At the very least, add it to the lighting package

And

For people who order the X-Drive and M-Sport. Give us a discount on DHP, so we can afford that option. Since, we lose the highly desired passive suspension.

[760Lifan]

Originally Posted by Diesel_Lover

Out of these three lines only one of them has any resale value, and that is the M-Sport line. Partly because it adds optional equipment: Like paddle shifters and passive suspension, and it has a distinctive look other than added fog lights.

The paddle shifters aren't even part of the M-sport Line. They come with the optional sport-transmission which can (and in order to get this option, has to) be added to any line. So if you want them, you have to order one of the lines AND the sport tranny - which actually supports your case.

Originally Posted by Diesel_Lover

I now have to question when you add features: Is this a gimmick to gain profit, or is this a real enhancement to the car?

I'd say it's both.

[The X Men]

At lease all the fog lights are LED now.

[bimmerjph]

Wow, I never even noticed that. I guess I just assumed that a $50,000 car would come with that as standard. Silly me.

I think the "lines" are just the epitome up stupid. It is essentially paying for the ability to pay for additional options. In addition to this, it vastly restricts the customization that BMW was once known for.

[raleedy]

Unlike rear fog lights, the front ones have always seemed to me to look cool but to provide no useful function. You can hardly tell the difference from the driver's seat when they're on in fog.

But I agree: the lines system stinks from a customer perspective. Who thinks that people who want cinnamon leather don't want fog lights?

[immx]

Here in the UK, they are available as a separate option priced at £175 ($278). If they can do it here, why the hell can't they do it everywhere?

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by immx

Here in the UK, they are available as a separate option priced at £175 ($278). If they can do it here, why the hell can't they do it everywhere?

It often appears to me, when reading the comments from the USA about BMW specifications, that we are talking of a different car company/brand altogether.

Seems BMW NA are dealing with a totally different market than over here in Europe. I presume they've done their market research for what the majority of customers want.

The lines and option lists over here in the UK give a very wide range of build options.

HighlandPete

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

It often appears to me, when reading the comments from the USA about BMW specifications, that we are talking of a different car company/brand altogether.

Seems BMW NA are dealing with a totally different market than over here in Europe. I presume they've done their market research for what the majority of customers want.

The lines and option lists over here in the UK give a very wide range of build options.

HighlandPete

There are important differences. I think much of it is explained by the combination of a very large market and a very long pipeline. No doubt another factor is the relatively low selling prices in the United States compared to other markets and a resulting effort to improve gross margins.

[760Lifan]

While there certainly are specific features and options available in Germany that I can't get in the US, any potential frustration is eased by comparing what I would have to pay in Germany for a BMW with similar options.

Fully loaded 535i is $88K in the US - 97K Euro in Germany
Fully loaded X5 35i: $92K in the US - 107K Euro in Germany

And in Germany, you don't get a 4-year warranty and/or free maintenance, either.

[Diesel_Lover]

Originally Posted by 760Lifan

While there certainly are specific features and options available in Germany that I can't get in the US, any potential frustration is eased by comparing what I would have to pay in Germany for a BMW with similar options.

Fully loaded 535i is $88K in the US - 97K Euro in Germany
Fully loaded X5 35i: $92K in the US - 107K Euro in Germany

And in Germany, you don't get a 4-year warranty and/or free maintenance, either.

Agreed, it is much cheaper to buy a car in the U.S. then Europe, but wages are much lower than in Germany, so it is relative.

Cars will not sell here at that prices sold in Europe, but selling here helps give BMW economies of scale. Which lowers car prices for everyone on average. So, I think that point is moot.

The fact is they can get away with charging us 2k for fog lights. Unless, customers bitch, and I posted this to start the bitching, and hope that they here us.

I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore.

[matbl]

Originally Posted by 760Lifan

While there certainly are specific features and options available in Germany that I can't get in the US, any potential frustration is eased by comparing what I would have to pay in Germany for a BMW with similar options.

Fully loaded 535i is $88K in the US - 97K Euro in Germany
Fully loaded X5 35i: $92K in the US - 107K Euro in Germany

And in Germany, you don't get a 4-year warranty and/or free maintenance, either.

But in this case the German prices includes 19% VAT and the US doesn't. Right?
Still more expensive in Germany but not as much as the above numbers.

[Diesel_Lover]

Yes, but you guys have free education, affordable health care, affordable drugs, the list goes on and on. We pay everything out of pocket here, at much higher prices, trust me, all in all, you guys got the better deal, even if your cars and taxes are higher.

[Diesel_Lover]

Does anybody know if you can add fog lights after market?

Have any of you done it?

[AVIMAX]

I don't know the answer, but if it is available in Europe, there is a slim chance it can be ordered. There is an option on the ordering guide called ZSP, SPECIAL ORDER for $400. My understanding from my dealer is this is a fee to special order something that is not regularly packaged/offered, and I'd guess the dealer would have to fight for that option. So if it can be done, you would have to add $400 on top of the price of the fog lights, so it may end up close to $700 if possible. This is just speculation ,but worth asking your dealer if it can be added with option ZSP.

[Diesel_Lover]

That is too much for fog lights, but I would gladly buy them. Now, if I can get a non-metallic red for another $700 I would be a really happy customer.

Call it the Diesel_Lover Package.

[remmib]

And the M cars and M Performance cars don't even get the fogs.

[matbl]

Hmm. In europe, ZSP is a sport package. Does bmw use different codes in different countries?
BTW, this is not m-sport package, it's much cheaper but don't get you the M-look either. But it does get you fog lights (among other things).

[mness]

Originally Posted by Diesel_Lover

The re-badging of the 530d to the 535d in the U.S. is further evidence of this type of profit driven thinking. It changes the standard badging based on engine displacement to a standard based on marketing and profit.

That's not exclusive to the diesel. BMW has abandoned badging based on engine displacement in all models with the proliferation of the turbo engines, and now uses "virtual displacement". 528i (2.0 liter turbo), 535i (3.0 liter turbo), 550i (4.4 liter turbo).

But I agree, they should have stuck with "honest" engine numbers and maybe added a "t" to the model name.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by AVIMAX

I don't know the answer, but if it is available in Europe, there is a slim chance it can be ordered. There is an option on the ordering guide called ZSP, SPECIAL ORDER for $400. My understanding from my dealer is this is a fee to special order something that is not regularly packaged/offered, and I'd guess the dealer would have to fight for that option. So if it can be done, you would have to add $400 on top of the price of the fog lights, so it may end up close to $700 if possible. This is just speculation ,but worth asking your dealer if it can be added with option ZSP.

ZSP is Sports Package. The SA704 (M Sport suspension) in the ZSP is about $400 when special ordered in the USA.

Maybe you are mixing the two?

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by Technic

ZSP is Sports Package. The SA704 (M Sport suspension) in the ZSP is about $400 when special ordered in the USA.

Maybe you are mixing the two?

There's no ZSP (whatever you may think it means) in the US order guide for the F10.

[AVIMAX]

It's in the Canadian guide called Special Order, the last option on the options list under European Delivery. We don't have that non M sports package anymore in Canada.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by raleedy

There's no ZSP (whatever you may think it means) in the US order guide for the F10.

ZSP is normally Sport Package in the USA, which was an option in the 2011 and 2012 F10.

But that was not really my point (to AVIMAX in specific), my point was that ZSP is normally reserved for Sports Package (even matbl expressed the same) regardless of BMW and normally there is no surcharge for special orders in the USA.

But I can see now that Canada is completely different.