[FStop7]

So I saw an F10 5 series yesterday and loved it. I was near a dealership so I stopped in to check one out up close. Once I sat in it I -really- loved it. BMW has fixed everything I didn't like about the E9x and E60 interiors. The dashboard now wraps around the driver a little more, the center console is raised up, etc. It feels a lot nicer than my M3.

How big is the performance difference between the two? Obviously the handling is not going to be there because of the softer suspension and additional weight. But in terms of just straight up acceleration, how close are they? The M3 is about is slow in a straight line as I can handle. If the 550i is close then I may have to get one. I don't really think I want an M5, though. A 550i seems to fit more of my preferences these days. Either that or I'll just stick with plan A and get a GTR - a totally different car, but like I said I love acceleration. The interior of the F10 is so good though, I can't stop thinking about how nice it was.

[tadtaggert]

The M3 is a good bit faster accelerating.

[lindros2]

2010 M3 = 0-60 in 3.9 seconds (w/ Comp Package) according to C&D.

2011 550i = 0-60 in ~4.9 seconds according to same magazine.

Oh, and don't compare the 550i with the GT-R. If you want a family sedan, go 5er. Sports car with some amenities but no usable back seat - GT-R.

[alex_c]

One thing that a lot of people seem to forget is that at a certaing range, is not only about the vehicle, it is mostly about the driver.

Of course, my grandmother driving an M3 would beat the crap out of Fittipaldi driving a Yugo, but with two vehicles within reasonable performance differences, the driver will make more more of an impact on true performance on a track, not only on a straight line.

On Thursday I was driving a fully loaded f10 550 at the BMW Performance Center in South Carolina, and ahead of me was an M3. I kept eating the back of the M3 every 2 laps (no passign allowed) and had to wait for him to get back to the middle of the track before we could start again.

I'm not a super-driver, and I guess that both of us (the M3 driver and myself) were just average drivers, but I think I was a little bit more aggresive around the track.

If you do mostly city driving, you may enjoy the M3 more during the 1 second advantage until you get to 60. From there on, the 550 may be more enjoyable. If you plan on really pushing the car and going to a track, I would think the M3 would be more fun.

Or take a 2 day performance driving school course -if you haven't done one- and then become a much better driver driving whichever you choose.

[kplsoleil]

AlexC makes a good point - whether the F10 is suitable for someone depends on their driving style.

Check out flyinbrian's review of his F10, he just switched from an M3 and gave some good reasons and impressions of the F10 - http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=420080

[Robin_NL]

I also switched from a E90 M3 6MT to a F10 535iA. And never had ANY regrets.Not even in the powerrange irl...) A 550i should be just as fast (and I think even faster) in a straight line compared to a 6MT E90 M3. Don't overrate a E9x M3 irl , just don't.

Cheers
Robin

[fireman550]

Great comparison Alex.. I am picking up my 550 this week and I am really excited. My buddy has a 2001 M3 and Im sure he will be ready for some street combat. LOL. I will let you all know if I take him down...

[caaan]

Same as fireman My boddy has 2010 M3 4 door. He insisted me to buy m3 coupe before I ordered my mine. After driving mine he said its a right decision. Because Alex explained both cars' difference very clearly. For daily use F10 is a very comfortable car and felt like in 7 series. My personal opinion If you want same luxury feeling and sportiveness at the same time go for 550i x drive (adaptive drive, vdc, active steering) for better handling and comfort same time.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by caaan

Same as fireman My boddy has 2010 M3 4 door. He insisted me to buy m3 coupe before I ordered my mine. After driving mine he said its a right decision. Because Alex explained both cars' difference very clearly. For daily use F10 is a very comfortable car and felt like in 7 series. My personal opinion If you want same luxury feeling and sportiveness at the same time go for 550i x drive (adaptive drive, vdc, active steering) for better handling and comfort same time.

X drive doesn't give you more sportiness and better handling, it can give you more traction/safety in rainy/sowy/icey etc. circumstances, so depending on where you live/drive , you can opt for an X drive F10.

Cheers
Robin

[erio]

Having an M3, you know it's a totally different car.....apples and oranges. One is a luxury "sports" car and the other is much more pure and pretty much track ready. You have to take it out on a track to really appreciate this car. I have driven the 550. Although it's fast, I think the 0-60 times quoted above are probably pretty acurate in terms of the difference. The e92/90 M3 is no doubt faster both in a straight line (esp. dct) and around the track. With drivers of similar skill it will run circles around the 550....seriously. e93 may be neck and neck...not sure about that one. Although the 550 is very fast, it's def. not near as fun. It doesn't feel as fast due to all it's mass/weight with a suspension/steering set up that I found unimpressive (even in sport+) compared to the e60 M sport suspension with the hydraulic/mechanical steering. That car felt much more like a drivers car to me. BMW is going in a different direction with the 5 now. I think the f30 may be the new 5. Although owners here are saying that the new setup is better once one gets used to it, it just seems too soft for me. I have to admit that it's a beautiful car with multiple of creature comforts. It's a great business saloon. I can see myself in something similar near retirement...I hope I look forward to seeing the new M5 as well.

[tadtaggert]

Originally Posted by erio

Having an M3, you know it's a totally different car.....apples and oranges. One is a luxury "sports" cars and the other is much more pure and pretty much track ready. You have to take it out on a track to really appreciate this car. I have driven the 550. Although it's fast, I think the 0-60 times quoted above are probably pretty acurate in terms of the difference. The e92/90 M3 is no doubt faster both in a straight line (esp. dct) and around the track. With drivers of similar skill it will run circles around the 550....seriously. e93 may be neck and neck...not sure about that one. Although the 550is very fast, it's def. not near as fun. It doesn't feel as fast due to all it's mass/weight with a suspension/steering set up that was unimpressive (even in sport+) compared to the e60 M sport suspension with the hydraulic/mechanical steering. That car felt much more like a drivers car to me. BMW is going in a different direction with the 5 now. I think the f30 may be the new 5. Although owners here are saying that the new setup is better once one gets used to it, it just seems too soft for me. I have to admit that it's a beautiful car with multiple of creature comforts. It's a great business saloon. I can see myself in something similar near retirement...I hope I look forward to seeing the new M5 as well.

This.

550i compares to an N54 335i in terms of acceleration, more or less, the M3 is significantly faster.

I too am looking forward to the new M5, how they've done the suspension and how that would compare to the M3.

[Hueydumps]

My father and I are both instructors for CCA and other clubs. He has an e92 M3, and I have an F10 550i. We recently were on the track together ( Main circuit, Summit Point, WV). On the straight, I will gain on him out of the corner initially for 5-7 seconds, then it's even, then he'll pull away (obv needs to be a very long straight). Around a track, the M3 will smoke the 550i, given similar driver skill. But going back to the orig question, in a straight line, it's much closer. I think from a rolling start the 550i may have the M3 to 60 bc of the torque, but have yet to confirm this. Also - no magazine's have done any 550i 0-60 tests (to my knowledge), and we all know BMW conservatively estimates their 0-60 times. I'll bet the 550i does 4.5-4.7 with the mags...

[caaan]

Originally Posted by Robin Hood

X drive doesn't give you more sportiness and better handling, it can give you more traction/safety in rainy/sowy/icey etc. circumstances, so depending on where you live/drive , you can opt for an X drive F10.

Cheers
Robin

I dont agree with you. 4 wheel drive gives a better handling not only on icey rainy and snowy roads but also on curves. With a better handling you feel more safe on high speeds on curves. With more confidency you can drive a powerful car more agressive and feel sportiveness.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by caaan

I dont agree with you. 4 wheel drive gives a better handling not only on icey rainy and snowy roads but also on curves. With a better handling you feel more safe on high speeds on curves. With more confidency you can drive a powerful car more agressive and feel sportiveness.

You don't get it. Handling is not about feeling 'safe'. How can a rwd Lotus/Caterham outrun a Subaru 4x4 on a (less than dry) trackday in especially the bends?

i.e. Traction, grip and HANDLING(and weight, which is added if you choose X drive) are 4 kinds of things.And the whole physics-thing is way bigger than this, I cannot(and will not) explain....

The 4wd makes the already heavy F10 even heavier, understeered, less 'agile'...

What I stated was, in rainy, icy, snowy circumstances it can come in handy, not in more or less dry bends.

Cheers
Robin

[E60orBust]

Originally Posted by Robin Hood

i.e. Traction, grip and HANDLING(and weight, which is added if you choose X drive) are 4 kinds of things.And the whole physics-thing is way bigger than this, I cannot(and will not) explain....

The 4wd makes the already heavy F10 even heavier, understeered, less 'agile'...

What I stated was, in rainy, icy, snowy circumstances it can come in handy, not in more or less dry bends.

Cheers
Robin

+1. We are not talking about an Evo / WRX 4WD system here anyhow. Its an active center diff that can send up to 50% to the front, but from side to side, it does not use LSD type gearing, it simply brakes the inside wheel when cornering. For performance oriented driving, I don't want to "brake" on anything, I want you just to divert more power to the outside wheel, which this generation of x-drive does not do.

If you live in an area that has more bad weather than good, go for x-drive. But if the weather really is that bad, x-drive be damned, that 400HP motor is still going to make you get sidways if you don't respect the right pedal. Just don't buy an x-drive thinking you can go faster in to corners than a RWD BMW. You have extra pull on the front axel, but it is offset by the extra weight going in to the corner.

Edit: Nitpicking here, stop calling it 4WD anyhow. BMW is AWD. Front and rear Diff turn together, not independently. Hence "All Wheels Turn" and not "4 wheels turn independently". For that, go get an Evo/WRX or a Porsche 911.

[tadtaggert]

Originally Posted by Hueydumps

Also - no magazine's have done any 550i 0-60 tests (to my knowledge), and we all know BMW conservatively estimates their 0-60 times. I'll bet the 550i does 4.5-4.7 with the mags...

Autobild did in their comparison to E550, S6 and the Jag, got a 5.0 for 100km/hr which is about 0-62. Linear interpolation puts that at 4.83 (and yes, nothing is linear), so I'll give you maybe in perfect conditions a 4.7.

Don't get me wrong, the car is quick on it's feet and I love driving it, but in reality it's a 4.8-4.9 car (which isn't slow) which just doesn't compare to the M3.

[bobblehead]

For the F10 550, Dinan ecu upgrade should be ready this winter or early next spring. Then we will see which is faster.

[MBrown1003]

Originally Posted by tadtaggert

Autobild did in their comparison to E550, S6 and the Jag, got a 5.0 for 100km/hr which is about 0-62. Linear interpolation puts that at 4.83 (and yes, nothing is linear), so I'll give you maybe in perfect conditions a 4.7.

Don't get me wrong, the car is quick on it's feet and I love driving it, but in reality it's a 4.8-4.9 car (which isn't slow) which just doesn't compare to the M3.

I have an e90 M3. Previously had E39 M5 and 540i/6.

The M3 is fast, but only when you rev it over about 6k RPMs. I've been surprised how many cars can keep up with me or or even begin to get away when accelerating hard out of a toll booth...but only until you get the motor really spinning. Then the M3 begins to make up the difference. On US roads, you can't go fast enough (legally) to really take advantage of that rev range in anything above second gear.

It doesn't become magical until even higher -- the last thousand RPMs before redline (which is at 8400) are about as much fun as you can have with your clothes on.

From my (brief) experience with a 550i (sport pkg, automatic trans), it *feels* much faster and probably is more usable due to all the low-end torque. That's probably my next car.

[tadtaggert]

Originally Posted by MBrown1003

From my (brief) experience with a 550i (sport pkg, automatic trans), it *feels* much faster and probably is more usable due to all the low-end torque. That's probably my next car.

I'll agree with this, I've had my 550i for a bit over three weeks, it feels very fast. Not trying to rag on the 550i or prop up the M3, just a statement of fact. Having driven the 550i all this time I know I made the right decision, at least for me.

[akhter]

Originally Posted by caaan

I dont agree with you. 4 wheel drive gives a better handling not only on icey rainy and snowy roads but also on curves. With a better handling you feel more safe on high speeds on curves. With more confidency you can drive a powerful car more agressive and feel sportiveness.

That is a dumb statement. AWD is safer at the hands of inexperienced drivers who will brake at the wrong time or do other stupid things. At the hands of experienced drivers who are pushing the car its limit, a race-car driver will usually prefer RWD. The main reason is understeer. It is the same reason why when you are at the track, you need to turn off all driving aids. Electronic nannies may make you feel safe but in real high speed driving, they mean much less.

[akhter]

both 335i and 550i will feel faster than M3 because of low end torque. For the same reason, in city driving/red light drag racing/highway passing, the turbo cars will be faster as well.

The M3 engine is like a racing engine that needs to be revved high. At the track well beyond legal speed limits, the M3 will always win.

[E60orBust]

Originally Posted by akhter

That is a dumb statement. AWD is safer at the hands of inexperienced drivers who will brake at the wrong time or do other stupid things. At the hands of experienced drivers who are pushing the car its limit, a race-car driver will usually prefer RWD. The main reason is understeer. It is the same reason why when you are at the track, you need to turn off all driving aids. Electronic nannies may make you feel safe but in real high speed driving, they mean much less.