2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
 

2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum Dealership scam!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-24-2015, 10:47 AM   #1
BavariaExclusive
Second Lieutenant
United_States
52
Rep
293
Posts

Drives: a Spaceship
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Mars

iTrader: (0)

Thumbs down Dealership scam!

I have been taking my car to BMW of Morristown in NJ for quite some time for service. Last time they loaned me a Bmw X5 2015 fully loaded. Whenever I have returned my loaners, I have a habit of making sure that it is all clean inside out.

When I returned them the X5, I get a call after 5 hours that I will be charged for full detailing of the car due to returning it very dirty. They sent me 2 pictures of just the back seat of the vehicle and of the floor where there were some tree branches fallen and some dirt. Not to forget that my 2015 x5 fully loaded had perforated leather seats and the ones in the pictures were not.

They will not send me additional pictures but emailed me back saying that he will charge me for it unless I lease my next vehicle with them. Then CC's the GM of sales and writes we will walk you towards leasing your next vehicle. I am just really pissed off because they are making me pay for something I didn't do.

What kind of BS is this?
Appreciate 0
      04-24-2015, 11:07 AM   #2
bake
Colonel
bake's Avatar
United_States
602
Rep
2,188
Posts

Drives: 2011 F10, 2013 E93
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New York

iTrader: (9)

I would not pay it. If they charge your credit card, dispute the charges. You should still have a paper that shows the details of the vehicle you were given. Go down there and have them show you the vehicle you were loaned. Point out the perforated seats. Then have them show you the pics again. Once they realize they are idiots I would just walk out and tell them to lose my phone number, address and email addy. I would never do business with them again and I would drag their name through the mud on every conceivable BMW related message board.
__________________
Bake
2011 Alpine White on Black 535i M-Sport
2013 Space Gray on Fox Red M3 Vert
Appreciate 1
      04-24-2015, 11:22 AM   #3
BavariaExclusive
Second Lieutenant
United_States
52
Rep
293
Posts

Drives: a Spaceship
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Mars

iTrader: (0)

Thanks for your input. But what if they replaced the car in the system under my name as I already pointed out to them in email that my loaner had perforated leather.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bake View Post
I would not pay it. If they charge your credit card, dispute the charges. You should still have a paper that shows the details of the vehicle you were given. Go down there and have them show you the vehicle you were loaned. Point out the perforated seats. Then have them show you the pics again. Once they realize they are idiots I would just walk out and tell them to lose my phone number, address and email addy. I would never do business with them again and I would drag their name through the mud on every conceivable BMW related message board.
Appreciate 0
      04-24-2015, 11:24 AM   #4
BavariaExclusive
Second Lieutenant
United_States
52
Rep
293
Posts

Drives: a Spaceship
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Mars

iTrader: (0)

I have the paperwork packet they hand you after they return you your car, if that is what you're referring to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bake View Post
I would not pay it. If they charge your credit card, dispute the charges. You should still have a paper that shows the details of the vehicle you were given. Go down there and have them show you the vehicle you were loaned. Point out the perforated seats. Then have them show you the pics again. Once they realize they are idiots I would just walk out and tell them to lose my phone number, address and email addy. I would never do business with them again and I would drag their name through the mud on every conceivable BMW related message board.
Appreciate 0
      04-24-2015, 11:32 AM   #5
bake
Colonel
bake's Avatar
United_States
602
Rep
2,188
Posts

Drives: 2011 F10, 2013 E93
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New York

iTrader: (9)

Don't they give you like a temporary registration paper or something?
__________________
Bake
2011 Alpine White on Black 535i M-Sport
2013 Space Gray on Fox Red M3 Vert
Appreciate 0
      04-24-2015, 12:03 PM   #6
The X Men
Colonel
99
Rep
2,323
Posts

Drives: 2013 X3 35i
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: MA

iTrader: (0)

BavariaExclusive, let’s face it, all car dealers are scam artist. Car manufacturers should sell their cars directly to their customer like Tesla, it would create a more pleasant car buying experience. With that said, I suppose it could have been an honest mistake by the dealer. What I find a bit suspicious is that their email state that they will not charge your CC if you lease your next vehicle with them. I just don't see how the two is related. I would turn the table on them and threaten them with reporting their scam to BMW, BBB, social media and the local news. I am sure this scam would make for an interesting news article, who knows how many other customers they have try this scam on. I would demand an apology from them and some sort of compensation for your time and stress.
Appreciate 0
      04-24-2015, 12:39 PM   #7
Bbb34
Major
Canada
731
Rep
1,472
Posts

Drives: '11 535i 6sp. DHP/RWD
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: ON

iTrader: (0)

It should be pretty simple.

Once you've taken possession of your car, signed all service paperwork and/or paid, any potential issues not brought to your attention prior to that point is their problem and should be paid out of their own pocket.

That's why they inspect the loaners before and after.
Appreciate 0
      04-24-2015, 12:53 PM   #8
Gpfarrell
Second Lieutenant
43
Rep
216
Posts

Drives: 6MT Imperial Blue 550i M-sport
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Pittsburgh

iTrader: (0)

I certainly don't feel all car dealers are scam artists. Our local dealership has been an advocate for us on several meaningful issues over the years and I'm happy to have a relationship with them. However, I do beleive all car dealers may intentionally or inadvertantly employ scam artists from time to time. The ownership of this dealer may not even know what's going on yet... I'm not saying they're innocent... but we don't know how widespread this devious little plot may be just yet. I'd give the owner the chance to fix it... you may become a VIP customer.
Appreciate 0
      04-24-2015, 01:14 PM   #9
BMWrules7
Lieutenant Colonel
306
Rep
1,684
Posts

Drives: 2015, 740 LdX, Alpine White
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Boston Area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gpfarrell
I certainly don't feel all car dealers are scam artists. Our local dealership has been an advocate for us on several meaningful issues over the years and I'm happy to have a relationship with them. However, I do beleive all car dealers may intentionally or inadvertantly employ scam artists from time to time. The ownership of this dealer may not even know what's going on yet... I'm not saying they're innocent... but we don't know how widespread this devious little plot may be just yet. I'd give the owner the chance to fix it... you may become a VIP customer.
Capitalism is based upon a lie.

They dealer buys something for x and they sell it for x + y.

Y is the intangible amount you are willing to pay for the car.

In business, it is well understood that it's ok to lie.

But, the only thing you can lie about is the value of y.

If you lie or misrepresent anything else you are a scum bag.

The fact that the picture failed to show perforated seats makes feel like this is a scam.

Nevertheless, if the damn car was returned dirty then the renter should pay to clean it.

But, once the vehicle is turned in, the dealer waives all claims for damages.

So, it's possible a staffer used the car after it was returned by the op and this staffer was a slob. The op shouldn't have to pay.

No matter what, the op is off the hook here since the dealer failed to catch the issue at the time the vehicle was turned in.
Appreciate 0
      04-24-2015, 02:56 PM   #10
Gpfarrell
Second Lieutenant
43
Rep
216
Posts

Drives: 6MT Imperial Blue 550i M-sport
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Pittsburgh

iTrader: (0)

I agree the OP should be off the hook for a variety of reasons.

I completely disagree capitalism is based upon a lie. I also disagree that it's okay to lie in business. It's completely unacceptable. People do it, but once I see them do it I don't do business with them anymore.
Appreciate 0
      04-24-2015, 03:24 PM   #11
BMWrules7
Lieutenant Colonel
306
Rep
1,684
Posts

Drives: 2015, 740 LdX, Alpine White
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Boston Area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gpfarrell
I agree the OP should be off the hook for a variety of reasons.

I completely disagree capitalism is based upon a lie. I also disagree that it's okay to lie in business. It's completely unacceptable. People do it, but once I see them do it I don't do business with them anymore.
To be clear, I don't mean misrepresenting key points or facts about the purchase.

However, the "lie" is that the seller isn't going to tell you his precise cost. And, that's ok.

Capitalism is about making as much profit as you can reasonably get away with.

You can "lie" by omission.

The price of a good is not what it costs, it's what someone will pay for it. Quite often, it is a "lie" that creates the market.

In America, you are not restricted to selling a widget at any particular percent.

There are many famous books that talk about this lie. Roger Dawson comes to mind.

The art of buying brings you into the world of negotiation. This "lie" is what makes capitalism work. But, I am not talking about misrepresentation. I am talking about negotiations and the BS that sellers and buyers trade with each other to get deals done---sometimes very large deals.
Appreciate 0
      04-24-2015, 05:20 PM   #12
493263
Lieutenant
493263's Avatar
71
Rep
510
Posts

Drives: 2011 550i xDrive
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
Capitalism is based upon a lie.

They dealer buys something for x and they sell it for x + y.

Y is the intangible amount you are willing to pay for the car.

In business, it is well understood that it's ok to lie.

But, the only thing you can lie about is the value of y.
.
Nice rant but every type of retail business buys something for X and sell it for X+Y. Else, what's the purpose of the business? to give away money?

And no, it's not ok to lie. That's why they can be sued if they do.

Get a grip bro.
Appreciate 0
      04-24-2015, 06:14 PM   #13
BMWrules7
Lieutenant Colonel
306
Rep
1,684
Posts

Drives: 2015, 740 LdX, Alpine White
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Boston Area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 493263
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
Capitalism is based upon a lie.

They dealer buys something for x and they sell it for x + y.

Y is the intangible amount you are willing to pay for the car.

In business, it is well understood that it's ok to lie.

But, the only thing you can lie about is the value of y.
.
Nice rant but every type of retail business buys something for X and sell it for X+Y. Else, what's the purpose of the business? to give away money?

And no, it's not ok to lie. That's why they can be sued if they do.

Get a grip bro.
I am not ranting. I don't want to continue to stray OT, but you're putting words in my mouth I never said.

It is wrong and even illegal to misrepresent some key element or feature of a product you're selling. So, let's get that straight. I loathe criminals that misrepresent their products.

At the same time, I am allowed to charge (with some exceptions) whatever amount I want for what I am selling.

When the BMW salesperson says, "we are making only $200 over invoice."

That's a lie. And, according to Roger Dawson, that's ok.

That's all I am saying.
Appreciate 0
      04-24-2015, 06:50 PM   #14
lsturbointeg
Lieutenant General
lsturbointeg's Avatar
United_States
9149
Rep
14,522
Posts

Drives: 2011 535i Jet Black
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Asian lost in OH

iTrader: (0)

If it was me...the ugly side of me would come out. I don't think that's right and I would go to corporate
Appreciate 0
      04-25-2015, 05:13 AM   #15
BavariaExclusive
Second Lieutenant
United_States
52
Rep
293
Posts

Drives: a Spaceship
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Mars

iTrader: (0)

Can't believe that I am now seeing the charge from them on my CC. My only concern is that what if they have switched the loaner they gave me for a base model one to prove that is the one I was loaned? How will I be able to prove that to them? This is ridiculous.
Appreciate 0
      04-25-2015, 07:23 AM   #16
Ben2k9
Second Lieutenant
32
Rep
258
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW 550i M-Sport
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Nashville, TN

iTrader: (1)

file a police report.
Appreciate 0
      04-25-2015, 10:09 AM   #17
ezaircon4jc
Major General
ezaircon4jc's Avatar
United_States
4261
Rep
5,289
Posts

Drives: 2019 540i M Sport
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (0)

Dispute the charge. I can't see any reason why you would need to detail/wash a loaner car. REALLY???? I have NEVER heard of this....... I have NEVER washed a rental/loaner car prior to returning it.
Appreciate 0
      04-25-2015, 10:49 AM   #18
lsturbointeg
Lieutenant General
lsturbointeg's Avatar
United_States
9149
Rep
14,522
Posts

Drives: 2011 535i Jet Black
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Asian lost in OH

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc View Post
Dispute the charge. I can't see any reason why you would need to detail/wash a loaner car. REALLY???? I have NEVER heard of this....... I have NEVER washed a rental/loaner car prior to returning it.
Same here...all they requested was to leave the gas amount the same
Appreciate 0
      04-25-2015, 11:00 AM   #19
Chili Palmer
Master Of My Domain
United_States
89
Rep
669
Posts

Drives: 2015 650i Gran Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (3)

A FULL DETAIL for a couple of dirty mats? I'd get the GM on the phone or go corporate.

I had a similar instance where I bought a CPO car and upon purchase I noticed the front tires were worn on the outer edges. I refused to buy the car until the tires were replaced and also stated the car needed an alignment. I was told by the used car manager that the car was aligned during the CPO process and when I need tires come see him and he will give am a new set of tires - I should have gotten that in writing. A few months later I brought the car in for the front tires and an alignment and told the service advisor that I had an arrangement with the used car manager for my tires, he got off the phone and said the UCM wanted to see me. I walked over there, introduced myself and lo and behold, he didn't remember a thing about our agreement. I got upset and mentioned how convenient it was to not remember and said that this place and his business practices were no better than Honest Slim's used cars in the seedy part of town. He told me that he could get me tires at his cost, and he'd talk to the SA. I had an oil change and few warranty items to take care of so I got in my loaner ( a Chrysler PT Cruier, but that's another story) and went home and waited for the call.

When they called they said for the tires and an alignment it would be $1960!!!! I told the SA I only needed the front two tires. I got the spiel that they are runflats and blah, blah, expensive. I told him not to do anything else to the car and I'd come and get it. When I got there they would not release my car due to it being unsafe to drive. I told them that that this is how it was sold to me! I told them that if they didn't release the car I would call the police. They still wouldn't release my car. So as I stood at the cashier's counter I pretended to call the police from my cell and that I'd be waiting by the curb. As I was making the call the cashier was on the phone. As soon as I "hung up" I was told that my car was ready to be picked up.

I wrote a letter to the Sonic Auto who owns BMW of Monrovia, CA and BMW of North America explaining the unscrupulous business practices of this dealership. I never received any response from Sonic and BMW of NA called me back stating that they have no control how a dealership treats its customers, but that is one of the highest volume dealers in SoCal - so I guess it's ok to to lie and steal from your customers as long as you are good at it? There was only silence on the other end of the phone. "That's what I thought" and hung up.

Sorry for jacking your thread with my long-winded post, but this is how a lot of dealers pad their bottom line. Unfortunately for you they did charge you. Call your credit card company and dispute the charge and go on a letter writing campaign including the BBB, social media, the dealership GM, BMW, and whoever.

Good luck.
__________________
RIP: 2015 Black Sapphire Metallic 650i Gran Coupe, 343 Wheels, Michelin Pilot Super Sports 255 F / 285 R, M6 Front Grilles. Coming - M6 Comp. Mufflers, Carbon Fiber Diffuser & Spoiler.
Appreciate 0
      04-25-2015, 04:58 PM   #20
BavariaExclusive
Second Lieutenant
United_States
52
Rep
293
Posts

Drives: a Spaceship
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Mars

iTrader: (0)

I think I won't bother disputing because they can simply send it to collections and ruin my credit over $75 bucks. But from now I will treat them with no leniency and make sure I'm on top of it. This was definitely a lesson learned. I am already speaking to a MB dealer in Tristate for the new CLS400 AMG package. I'm the type of customer who won't ever look back if screwed over by someone. My whole family uses BMW and uses that dealership. I will make sure I transition them all to MB.
Appreciate 0
      04-25-2015, 05:02 PM   #21
Pimpsy
Captain
418
Rep
862
Posts

Drives: 2019 M5C
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Dispute the charge. Call the dealership manager to discuss. Remember to always try to sound like the most reasonable guy in the room...and just explain "that you have questions" and don't feel comfortable with the situation that has developed.

I'm sure it can be worked out.

Good luck!
Appreciate 0
      04-25-2015, 05:03 PM   #22
BavariaExclusive
Second Lieutenant
United_States
52
Rep
293
Posts

Drives: a Spaceship
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Mars

iTrader: (0)

It is the Service Manager who is creating the mess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanM View Post
Dispute the charge. Call the dealership manager to discuss. Remember to always try to sound like the most reasonable guy in the room...and just explain "that you have questions" and don't feel comfortable with the situation that has developed.

I'm sure it can be worked out.

Good luck!
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:21 PM.




5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST