[morrisond]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

No, I get it. I'll suggest this as an alternative to your point:

No true sports sedan comes only with an automatic transmission.

There. End of story. In the USA, the 528 is not available with a manual. I'm not sure about Canada.

You know... people bitched and moaned about how ugly the E65 7 series was, but it turned out to be a great seller for BMW. Right now, BMW's biggest competitors are not just Mercedes, but also Audi and especially Lexus. People vote with their feet, and Lexus didn't get where they are today by building tight handling responsive sport sedans. No, they've got soft, isolated luxury cars. That's what people want, and so that's what BMW delivers.

If I could buy a new E39 today instead of an F10, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But I can't. Those were superlative cars, especially with a sports suspension or in the M format, and with a proper manual transmission as well!

By all means speak your mind and state your opinion! But don't get angry if not everyone agrees with you.

I'm not angry, and I get the point about the 528 not being enough power for some, but what gets me going is that I haven't read anybody on here or in reviews who are asking for more isolation from the road. In my opinion BMW has just gone too close to Lexus with the 535 and 550, those who miss the energy and feel of the earlier 5's should try a 528 they may like it better.

I'm trying to tell those who have written off the new 5 based on reviews or driving the 535 or 550 to go try the 528 they may be pleasantly surprised.

Good point about the manual that would be nice if they offered it on the 528i, however the 8 speed is a pretty fantastic tranny, and I need XDrive (I live 2 hours North of Toronto in a Snow Belt), so no manual available on the 535 or 550 either. I'm not a big fan of paddles, I still like playing with the lever, and the new 8sp in manual mode shifts faster than I could ever do it by myself.

I think the 528i needs the extra two ratios.

[335inTO]

I currently drive a 335i and many times I do find it frustrating because I can never get anywhere close to its potential on city streets. I'm constantly lifting off the throttle and shutting off the fun after one or two seconds because that's how long it takes to reach speeds that would get me into trouble with the law.
Yes, it has great low end torque and I can get to cruising speed with no effort but also with little fun. So I was quite excited to read about the OP's review of the 528i because that feeling is exactly what I am looking for - something that will allow me to enjoy the feeling of accelerating and revving the engine for longer intervals at a time. On the autobahn it's probably a different story but in Toronto, where 50km (30 miles) over the speed limit will get your car impounded, the NA just might be the more entertaining option.

[akhter]

Originally Posted by 335inTO

I currently drive a 335i and many times I do find it frustrating because I can never get anywhere close to its potential on city streets. I'm constantly lifting off the throttle and shutting off the fun after one or two seconds because that's how long it takes to reach speeds that would get me into trouble with the law.
Yes, it has great low end torque and I can get to cruising speed with no effort but also with little fun. So I was quite excited to read about the OP's review of the 528i because that feeling is exactly what I am looking for - something that will allow me to enjoy the feeling of accelerating and revving the engine for longer intervals at a time. On the autobahn it's probably a different story but in Toronto, where 50km (30 miles) over the speed limit will get your car impounded, the NA just might be the more entertaining option.

Same reason why I ordered a 528i after 3 years with a 335i

I missed being able to floor it for more than 3 seconds...

If there was a track around me, it would have been a M3.

If we had autobahns with no speed limit, it would have been a 550i w/DHP.

[rogerdiaz]

Any general comments on the ride and handling of 528i with NO sports package? tight? like a boat? Body roll? please describe any comments. Would it be fair to ask how it compares to driving a 3 series? I am in serving in Iraq, can't go for a test drive.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by rogerdiaz

Any general comments on the ride and handling of 528i with NO sports package? tight? like a boat? Body roll? please describe any comments. Would it be fair to ask how it compares to driving a 3 series? I am in serving in Iraq, can't go for a test drive.

If handling is an overriding factor, get the 3 series of course. There are compromises with the F10, with some added space and luxury.

[Twenties]

I appreciate the original post.

I previously leased an E39 2001 525i with a 2.5 I-6 with 185 hp/175 tq. with a 5 speed manual and sport suspension etc. The car weighed less than 3500lbs and reached 0-60 mph in 7.5 seconds. The price of the vehicle as leased was only $39,000. I redlined the first 2 gears without breaking the law.

The car FELT very fast and handled excellently. I felt in complete control of this car - as if it were an extension of me - and was connected to my mind and my hands.

The downside was that after about 1 year or so I grew tired of the small engine manual transmission combo, it became physically a chore to drive it everyday, it was difficult to drive it moderately, it was either really slow or floor it for decent speed.

The E39 5 series was also very compact inside although it appeared larger outside. I'm tall and rear seat legroom in the old 5 series was a joke - I crammed passengers back there for short trips.

Overall it was a great car though - just not one I could live with for more than the 3 years when the lease expired. I drove the 2000 E39 528i - it was slightly less of a compromise - but still required some ringing out of its gears to get it moving. I never drove the E39 530 (with 230 hp) - it may have been a sweeter spot.

I now have a 400 hp 450 tq V8 turbocharged 550 GT - its 4900 lbs, slightly more than a 750Li - and the driving experience is in some respects the opposite of the 525. What I love is the great space for me, my wife, my 3 kids, I'm 6'3 and can sit comfortably with the car loaded with passengers. I don't do redline driving as much like I did 10 years ago with the 525. What I'm looking and I what I need has evolved in a sense. Rear passengers WANT to sit in the back and enjoy the ride. And yet the weight distribution, grip, and reflexes are still BMW-like. The luxury and tech items in this car compared to the E39 525 is night and day of course. The 400 horse power is fun when I step on it, merge on a on ramp, make a pass, surprise a passenger, etc.

What is missing is the feeling of being able to truly manipulate the steering and movement of the car. And, sadly, that was - BMW.

BMW needs to figure out how to get that back. Maybe its weight reduction, less tech steering, older suspension tech, less gearing, more intake/exhaust response, less touchy throttle tip-in, less noise isolation material, etc.

I am not in the market for something like the E39 525 used to be (or maybe what the F10 528 is today closest to) ... instead I have a larger BMW and a separate sports car (Infiniti Coupe) but I can certainly understand and appreciate the small I-6 in a small/midsize 5-series for its attributes.

[ddd269]

I understand what morrison and akhter are saying... The more I drive my 528, the more I like it.

First, I have to be honest about my 528 purchase, though. Initially I wanted the 535 but the price difference of US$10k was stretching a bit (had to pay cash for the car because I just moved to Chile from Los Angeles, CA and have no credit in this country - 528 US$70,000 - 535 US$80,000). So, paying that extra plus the higher annual tax that goes with a more expensive car was not worth the extra hp (registration for my 528 is about US$2,200 per year and the 535... much much more).

So, I was regretting not buying the 535 after I took delivery of my 528 for a couple of month. Nothing like a bitter feeling after you make a big purchase.

After a few months, without realizing, I was grinning every time I drove the car. My brain kept thinking about the 535 and the extra hp, but somehow I was happy when I drove my 528. Just love the sound it makes at full throttle! This feeling was confirmed when they gave me a 535 loaner during a service (wheel was out of balance). Yes, the hp difference is very noticeable but overall the 528 is a joy to drive.

I will also admit that I was one of the ones that always put down a lesser powered car of the same model. Always bought the higher cubic in. with more power -- Always. Most of the time just plain ignored the smaller engine and didn't even test drive it.

I think this is a syndrome that most U.S. car enthusiasts feel. When I say enthusiasts I don't mean specifically forum members here but the folks who change cars often, say every couple of years.

My view of engine selection has changed after this purchase and will consider all options in the future.

Note: If I have an endless source of money to buy what ever I want, I would buy one of each for different destinations/use. Until that day, I'll have to listen to my accountant when making purchases and for crazy-brutal speed fix, I rely on my Hayabusa.

[sequal]

This thread makes me wanna walk directly to my car and drive it~! lol

[tk005x]

Originally Posted by akhter

So no new Ferraris are sports cars? Oh you said sport sedan not sport cars

Same goes for AMG sedans too

[morrisond]

Inside Line posted test numbers on the 528 vs 535, only 3.5 mph less in the quarter mile at 91.5 mph(.8 sec) and 1.2 slower 0-60 (7.1 vs. 5.9), I would guess as the 528 breaks in more the gap may fall a bit too as the smaller engine will get more of a benefit from break in.

Good numbers. On a typical highway on-ramp(say 800-1000') you might be going 1-2 mph slower, not enough to make a difference.

To put this in perspective, the brand new 1984 Corvette did 0-60 in 7.0 and the quarter at 88mph.

[Saintor]

528i is a great achiever with a 0-60mph in 6.5s, MORE than adequate. 25mpgUS combined EPA is excellent.

I haven't tried one yet, but I am a bit wary of the engine note.

If it is like the 3-series, the 335i sounds much better. I hated the [lack of] sound of my N52 and got a 1300$ Performance Exhaust.

BTW, the 535i gets 24mpgUS combined. Still excellent and a good part of the 6000$ MSRP difference can be recovered at resale.

[icemanrocks]

Couldn't agree more with OP.
That's why I think BMW should bring back NA 3.0l engine used in 330/530i.

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by morrisond

smaller engine

?

528i: 3.0 liter, 6 cyl

535i: 3.0 liter, 6 cyl

[yogi799]

This thread has just made me realize how bad I want the 535 vs the 528 and has helped me to arrive at a very crucial decision. I hope I won't change my mind, but it doesn't appear so...

As an intro, I have to say that I've always loved the feeling of torque... Having a 328i, I've always looked down upon the 323i owners, but more so than that, I've just loved the ability to half-floor it w/o the tranny downshifting. Pure abundance of power and torque w/o revving the engine.

It's time to change the ride, though...

I've test driven a 535i and was blown away with the power and torque. I happen to live in a suburban area with not that much cops, so I find myself flooring my 328i quite often to about 60mph on 'regular' roads on the outskirts of my mid-sized town. Had I lived INSIDE the city... forget it - I would totally agree with all the pro 528i arguments here. But I don't and it's great.

Test drove a 528i today and was a bit dissappointed. Went on Youtube and compared a ton of 0-60 f10 videos with great disbelief. How can this ride be only 1s slower and still do a remarkable 6.5s dash, yet I felt like the power was missing, and the tranny had to double downshift to get me going like I wanted (remember, I'm not that much into revving, more like sheer acceleration). But your discussion has provided the answers.

I have previously built in a few options in my configured 528i to get me from 53 to 60k... (60k is kind of my limit). Here in Canada, 535 starts at 63 and I've kept on wondering what if I could actually pull it off... AND I have just decided that all the b.s. bells and whistles of the 528 are never going to make me as happy as commanding 300hp and torque at my disposal... Forget rear view cameras and automatic trunks! Would they ever justify the lack of 60hp and my so desired torque? Never in this lifetime... Thankfully, here in Canada, a base versions come with USB/ipod connectors, dynamic cruise control, heated seats and wheel, etc. so I have decided to get a bare-bone 535 at 63 than an slightly better (only slightly, really, due to some more 'defaults' on the 535) 528 with missing key aspect - the POWER.

So, I appreciate this great discussion. It seems to have helped me a lot. I'll report back in a few days when I sleep on it, but I can't seem to think a trunk or a camera are better than power...

[Bimmer535xi]

I have a 2011 535xi. When I compared the 535i to the 528i after owning a 2006 530i, I really liked the 528i when I drove it.

If there was a 528xi I would have possibly bought the 528xi instead. The feel and drive ability of the 528i was more like my 2002 530i which I still miss.

When I drive the 535xi in the sport mode it seems more like the characteristic you like in the 528i except more powerful.

[delvek]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

No, I get it. I'll suggest this as an alternative to your point:

No true sports sedan comes only with an automatic transmission.

There. End of story. In the USA, the 528 is not available with a manual. I'm not sure about Canada.

You know... people bitched and moaned about how ugly the E65 7 series was, but it turned out to be a great seller for BMW. Right now, BMW's biggest competitors are not just Mercedes, but also Audi and especially Lexus. People vote with their feet, and Lexus didn't get where they are today by building tight handling responsive sport sedans. No, they've got soft, isolated luxury cars. That's what people want, and so that's what BMW delivers.

If I could buy a new E39 today instead of an F10, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But I can't. Those were superlative cars, especially with a sports suspension or in the M format, and with a proper manual transmission as well!

By all means speak your mind and state your opinion! But don't get angry if not everyone agrees with you.

The automatics are superior to manuals. The ZF 8speed sport transmission is the much better option unless you enjoy driving a manual.

[Whteverjklasdf]

either the 528 or 535 is a great car, no doubt about it. hell, all f10 5er regardless of engine choice is great.

but no matter how you put it, the 528 isn't a "better" car than the 535 unless you're ultra-sensitive to gas price. if a hundred pounds or two in weight saving is so important to you then you shouldn't be buying a f10 at the first place; all modern BMWs are heavy.

528 can only be better than the 535 in terms of value, same goes to the 535 can only be better than 550 in terms of value. but in terms of performance or driving experience, there is no contest.

[BobRBob]

I test drove both cars twice. After the first I preferred the feel of the 528i. So I drove them again with same result. So I bought the 528i. It feels more like my old 2001 530i and sounds nicer than the 535i. Guess I'm just not sold on turbo power yet.

Bonus was the savings on purchase, better gas milage and fewer problems with 19" RFTs.

[yogi799]

It's quite remarkable, actually, to find out so many honest opinions preferring LESS power. I do believe they are genuine (not subconsciously dictated by large cash savings). Is this basically the power vs torque debate? To confirm the frankness of these opinions, however (which I totally respect), I'd like to see them repeated in case where 535 cost was dropped down to equal that of the 528 (honestly, I have a HARDEST time believing anyone would buy 528 if that were the case.. thoughts?). Sometimes, we're just great at justifying something almost subconsciously. I was trying the same on myself, for a few days, and could not see myself happy with less power. I've tried... LOL

To make things more intriguing, I wonder what'd happen, hypothetically, if the price of 528 = 535 = 550...!?

[wang133ro]

Originally Posted by yogi799

It's quite remarkable, actually, to find out so many honest opinions preferring LESS power.

That, plus it seems to me somehow less power is associated with a sportier drive.

It's very unexpected - to me at least.

However... I have not driven the 528 yet and probably will never have the opportunity to.

[delvek]

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by yogi799

It's quite remarkable, actually, to find out so many honest opinions preferring LESS power. I do believe they are genuine (not subconsciously dictated by large cash savings). Is this basically the power vs torque debate? To confirm the frankness of these opinions, however (which I totally respect), I'd like to see them repeated in case where 535 cost was dropped down to equal that of the 528 (honestly, I have a HARDEST time believing anyone would buy 528 if that were the case.. thoughts?). Sometimes, we're just great at justifying something almost subconsciously. I was trying the same on myself, for a few days, and could not see myself happy with less power. I've tried... LOL

To make things more intriguing, I wonder what'd happen, hypothetically, if the price of 528 = 535 = 550...!?

Good question (I hate it when ppl say that).. well ofcourse everybody would choose a 550, for the same money you get 'more', why not?
BUT, after a while, ppl would start to change their preferences if nothing had a price (=unconstrained resources). Which is why Prince Charles would pick the Camilla after Diana..

Ofcourse 550>535>528 .. I mean, the numbers are to represent something.

HOWEVER, there IS an argument wrt. NA vs Turbo.. hence 528i vs 535i.
You can't use the 535>528 argument everytime because that's like saying your mom doesn't have a penis.

Ask a really rich guy which car he prefers to drive, then you would get close to an objective answer. (Because the money factor has been 'ex'-ed out.. although he may still feel the 'shame' of the 528i, god )