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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum F10 Flaw
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      09-30-2010, 05:57 AM   #1
pyramid
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F10 Flaw

Hi Guys,

First post here and not trying to be negative. I plan on getting a new car early next year and been looking back and forth on the F10 and E-class. Trying to get as much flaw as possible between the two cars. I understand no car is perfect, whatever brand it is, just trying to get the one I can live with.

Things that bugs me on my test drive are (523i),
- Dashboard reflection on what supposed to be the HUD screen. The concave area did make an annoying reflection when driving in the sun. I see couple of people in the forum mentioned this already.

- I also notice imperfection on the metal door panel, most noticeably in the front left side door (standing behind the car, facing forward). It is the front passenger door for RHD model. Right below the curvature housing of door handle, the metal shape seems "ripple" when looking at certain angle. The width of this rippled area is the same as the width of the curvature housing itself. It is like when the metal has been knock from behind (like dent removal). The other door side did also have this but barely noticeable. I though it is only happened on this specific test drive car, turns out every car on the lot including 535 has the exact same imperfection. So it must happened in the production when pressing to shape this metal. Have you guys notice the same?

I don't notice the car pulling to the right as some member have described.
Other than those two above, I have not find anything else yet.

Hope to get more insights here about the car. I don't want to spend almost USD150k (for 535i in South East Asia) that I won't be able to lived with for at least 2 years.
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      09-30-2010, 06:22 AM   #2
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At least those two things won't bother most folks one bit.

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      09-30-2010, 06:36 AM   #3
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Quote:
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At least those two things won't bother most folks one bit.
Good to know
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      09-30-2010, 07:46 AM   #4
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I have HUD on my F10 and 2 prior 5ers. It is extremely rare, once every 6 months, that I fleetingly get the reflection off of the HUD screen. HUD is spectacular and is well worth the cost. My door panels do not have the damage that you are referring to. The car did not leave the factory with a damaged door as you describe. What happens is that occasionally cars are damaged in transit and repaired. In general the repair is flawless. It sounds like that repair was not flawless.

BTW are you in Indonesia?
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      09-30-2010, 08:38 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyramid View Post
Hi Guys,

First post here and not trying to be negative. I plan on getting a new car early next year and been looking back and forth on the F10 and E-class. Trying to get as much flaw as possible between the two cars
I also looked very closely at the E-class. If you are going for a 6 cylinder model with the 7 speed gearbox there is a problem with the gearbox that has been widely reported by owners.

The "BlueEfficiency" system Mercedes have implemented puts the gearbox into neutral rather than 1st gear when it comes to a standstill in order to save fuel. When you step on the throttle to move off it hesitates before it engages 1st gear and moves. I encountered this once at a roundabout on a test drive and it's not good to say the least - especially when you have a car on the roundabout coming quickly at you.

I found the F10 to be a much better car. But that's just my opinion We all have different tastes.
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      09-30-2010, 08:41 AM   #6
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Hi pharding, yes I'm from Indonesia, and thanks for sharing

Unfortunately, the model that came here does not come with HUD. You could not even select interior/exterior color combination. For dark color exterior, always comes with tan interior; for light color exterior, always comes with black interior.

I would imagine the HUD itself would be flat following the dashboard top contour which would have made the dashboard reflection evenly across the whole windshield, that's normal. But the one without it, the angled surrounding of a concave area, projected a darker reflection on the windshield (creating a frame like) as to force you to look "through" it. The car I tried even already have 40% ceramic based tint for the windshield.

The door panel damage, I find it odd as well. Seems like someone has been working on it. But it's all the same ripple affect at the same spot and same shape for all the car on the lot. Only at certain angle light, it shows. Standing about 2 meters away from the front bumper, looking at the side of the car. When looking directly at it, it wont shows at all.
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      09-30-2010, 08:51 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krell View Post
I also looked very closely at the E-class. If you are going for a 6 cylinder model with the 7 speed gearbox there is a problem with the gearbox that has been widely reported by owners.

I found the F10 to be a much better car. But that's just my opinion We all have different tastes.
I don't bother testing the E class because they don't come with the new engine yet. In fact, the V6 E300 still have the old 231hp while the E350 comes with the old 268/272hp. No CGI engine except for E250. I hope they do next year, to get better comparison.

Styling wise, I prefer F10 at this moment. But maybe due to I've seen too many E class around
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      09-30-2010, 10:23 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyramid View Post
Things that bugs me on my test drive are (523i),
- Dashboard reflection on what supposed to be the HUD screen. The concave area did make an annoying reflection when driving in the sun. I see couple of people in the forum mentioned this already.

- I also notice imperfection on the metal door panel, most noticeably in the front left side door (standing behind the car, facing forward). It is the front passenger door for RHD model. Right below the curvature housing of door handle, the metal shape seems "ripple" when looking at certain angle. The width of this rippled area is the same as the width of the curvature housing itself. It is like when the metal has been knock from behind (like dent removal). The other door side did also have this but barely noticeable. I though it is only happened on this specific test drive car, turns out every car on the lot including 535 has the exact same imperfection. So it must happened in the production when pressing to shape this metal. Have you guys notice the same?
Yes, there's been a lot of discussion regarding windscreen reflections and today I had the chance to see exactly what some folk are getting their knickers in a twist about.
It's a gloriously sunny day here and I've just been out in my new F10 - ok, there is a reflection from the where the HUD would be if I had one, but there's also reflections from the vents and centre speaker. I also checked my E92 when this brouhaha was at it's zenith and guess what - sodding reflections all over the place! I can only imagine that I've been paying insufficient attention for most of my life; either that or I subconsciously learned to live with it and moved on. The latter, I suspect .
As to panel defects, fortunately none on mine but that doesn't necessarily imply that BMWs are more or less susceptible to damage than Mercedes or any other marque.
Before electing for my 535d M Sport, I drove the E350 and the Jag XF. Amongst many other aspects, I particularly disliked the E350 auto; the Jag came closest and if it didn't have such a naff and blingy interior, it might have been a harder decision.
Hope you find your perfect car; happy hunting
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      09-30-2010, 10:23 PM   #9
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The windshield reflection is off putting. When I test drove the F10 535i, it was the first thing I noticed. It was a similar feeling to picking up any random rental car at the airport on a sunny morning and looking at the reflection of the poorly designed dashboard staring back at me. I would rather see the road and not a reflected image of the radio speaker, ventilation system ports, gadgets, etc. BMW used to take this stuff seriously. Maybe a black dash will help.
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      10-01-2010, 03:07 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sygazelle View Post
Maybe a black dash will help.
Dammmit - guess I shouldn't have painted mine pink
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      10-01-2010, 10:44 AM   #11
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Jon D,
Normal dashboard reflection coming from speaker grille, ac vents, etc. are acceptable, because it doesn't make huge different in its reflection shadow, and most importantly, not directly in front of your eyes.

But this.... (pics taken from different thread by rka) ... seems overlooked by BMW

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      10-01-2010, 01:06 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyramid View Post
Jon D,
Normal dashboard reflection coming from speaker grille, ac vents, etc. are acceptable, because it doesn't make huge different in its reflection shadow, and most importantly, not directly in front of your eyes.
Yes, as I said earlier, it's there (don't forget I have a non-HUD F10) and whether or not you can live with it depends on your personal tolerance of minor annoyances.
If you don't like it, don't buy the car - that should be reasonably easy to figure out .
From all the F10 reviews I've read, I cannot recall a single tester making this observation. Like me they were probably seeing through the windscreen as opposed to looking at it .
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      10-01-2010, 03:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyramid View Post
I don't want to spend almost USD150k (for 535i in South East Asia) that I won't be able to lived with for at least 2 years.
$150k USD???? Is the exchange rate that bad??
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      10-01-2010, 04:32 PM   #14
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$150k USD???? Is the exchange rate that bad??
No, the U.S. gets the cheapest BMWs in the world. Seriously. It's cheaper here than in Germany even.
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      10-01-2010, 07:05 PM   #15
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I disagree. Reflections are a big deal. BMW used to pay attention to this detail. It appears that they have lost their way.
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      10-01-2010, 07:15 PM   #16
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To me, the windscreen reflection on the F10 is more than a minor annoyance as you call it. Your recommendation to not by the car if you don't like it seems logical enough. As a three-time 5 series owner, I have certain expectations, and going backwards is not one of them. If BMW wants to evolve what was a sports sedan into something "more", so be it. I can live with that. BMW is just responding to the competition and what it perceives the market wants. But basic bad design like busy dashboards with the resulting dashboard reflection is not evolution. It's simply bad design, which is something long term BMW expowners (like me) do not expect from an Ultimate Driving Machine.
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      10-01-2010, 08:05 PM   #17
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If this is really a big deal to you I suggest you use some of this cloth to make yourself a dash cover. It's completely non-reflective stuff that I use for my photography.

http://www.dmkfoto.com/9x12_Velvetli...und_p/3860.htm

You could also just buy one of those velour dash covers in black. I had one installed years ago on a car I had with a light beige dashboard and it sure controlled the reflections.
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      10-01-2010, 11:25 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1HOT BMR View Post
If this is really a big deal to you I suggest you use some of this cloth to make yourself a dash cover. It's completely non-reflective stuff that I use for my photography.
+1
I would not consider something as a "big deal" if it can be solved easily with something costing a few bucks.

For me, I always wear my polarized sun glass during the day, and I never notice any reflections.
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      10-01-2010, 11:33 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sygazelle View Post
To me, the windscreen reflection on the F10 is more than a minor annoyance as you call it. Your recommendation to not by the car if you don't like it seems logical enough. As a three-time 5 series owner, I have certain expectations, and going backwards is not one of them. If BMW wants to evolve what was a sports sedan into something "more", so be it. I can live with that. BMW is just responding to the competition and what it perceives the market wants. But basic bad design like busy dashboards with the resulting dashboard reflection is not evolution. It's simply bad design, which is something long term BMW expowners (like me) do not expect from an Ultimate Driving Machine.
That's your opinion, I really like dashboard with many buttons
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      10-02-2010, 05:26 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon D View Post
If you don't like it, don't buy the car - that should be reasonably easy to figure out .
Nice advice. I can understand if I've bought the car before notice it, I will probably try to live with it as well
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      10-02-2010, 05:38 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nosnoop View Post
+1
I would not consider something as a "big deal" if it can be solved easily with something costing a few bucks.

For me, I always wear my polarized sun glass during the day, and I never notice any reflections.
I didn't look good with sunglasses

And one thing to remember, this car will cost me almost 150K. I don't expect to fix anything more.
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      10-02-2010, 11:09 AM   #22
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I've driven four different F10/11 cars without HUD and to be honest never noticed a thing. (The last two cars I was aware of this issue, still didn't notice any big problem). My own E91 has reflections if you look for them, but they never cause me any issues.

I remember a guy who was always on about dash reflections in his Citroen, I couldn't see what all the fuss was about, when I sat in it. I find most cars have a reflection problem when you get the wrong angles, eye height, sun height, etc., don't we normally just look through them and focus at the road?

Anyone tried adjusting their seating position and find it changes the situation?

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