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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 F10 Technical Topics Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications N63 intake fabrication
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      06-28-2014, 05:10 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by ARC550 View Post
It's still low!

I have a stage 1 n63TU and I dynoed on a dyno jet 481/541 and my dial was set to standard setting A.K.A stage 1.

So even if you did dyno 430 that's low! You should be at 450ish minimum with 480trq lol I mean look at Terry's numbers! Unless he somehow ballooned them lol

Arch, seriously dude?
Your comparing your 2014 TU to a non TU 2011.

2011-2013's dyno 370-382rwhp stock STD STD.. ok, again STD!

The N63TU stage one, is much stronger then the Stage one for the NON-TU model, What he has!

He dyno'd 418 SAE, SAE, SAE Which reads lower by a good margin over STD.

gclions then shows you dyno graphs from BMS website, and it shows stage one STD is 425 STD...
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      06-29-2014, 12:25 AM   #46
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Broski I know!





Quote:
Originally Posted by combatbmw View Post
Arch, seriously dude?
Your comparing your 2014 TU to a non TU 2011.

2011-2013's dyno 370-382rwhp stock STD STD.. ok, again STD!

The N63TU stage one, is much stronger then the Stage one for the NON-TU model, What he has!

He dyno'd 418 SAE, SAE, SAE Which reads lower by a good margin over STD.

gclions then shows you dyno graphs from BMS website, and it shows stage one STD is 425 STD...
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      06-29-2014, 03:20 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by ARC550 View Post
Broski I know!
LOL i love you bro!

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      07-01-2014, 06:00 PM   #48
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Update

Tubing came in today, filters yesterday. Machine shop is cutting out flanges, hope to have them welded onto tubing by Thursday. I'll install the intakes and drive it hard this weekend to look for codes, then if all checks out I'll get her on the dyno first available appointment.

That said, just pulled codes after a hard run today led to a drivetrain malfunction, I got the following:

102402 HFAMM 2, Operating Range: Period duration too low, air mass too high
102302 HFAMM, Operating Range: Period duration too low, air mass too high
800334 CID: PWM reduction on account of overtemperature
801C15 Central Gateway Module: Fault is stored

I'm concerned that the HFAMM codes caused the drivetrain malfunction, there's a 50/50 chance one or both did. If I got the fault with stock intakes, we might have trouble coming up with an option for the N63. The last thing we need is the car to believe it is running lean and cutting back power.

Now, if anyone knows what the heck code 800334 is, please let me know. I'm going to search for it, but as a group we can probably figure it out. An overtemperature condition could just as likely be the culprit here.

Worst case I'm going to eat the cost of materials and machine work, which hasn't been cheap, but I should be able to return the filters. Cross your fingers guys.
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      07-02-2014, 03:25 PM   #49
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I think the cause for at least one of the HFAMM codes was a loose hose clamp, I'll drive it hard to make sure. Concerning the PWM overtemperature code, I found a 335 that was getting the same code on an overtorque condition when accidentally pressing the kickdown button on a hard acceleration. For some unknown reason the hard shift to 3rd gear was causing it.

I dropped by the machine shop earlier, and the flanges are going to be spot on. The owner wanted to get final measurements for the screw holes to hold the HFAMM in place. I gave him the tubing, and he promised to have them welded up and ready for pickup by tomorrow afternoon.

I've been trying to datalog a little with the car in it's current state, took some air mass readings last night, and under hard acceleration the car was sucking ~620 kg/hr (325 cfm) on each bank. I feel pretty confident with the filters I selected being adequate, as they'll pass 550 cfm.

So all in all progressing well, and should be testing on Friday. Only drawback will be the storm moving up the east coast.
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      07-04-2014, 04:56 PM   #50
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Success!

Guys,

Intakes have performed well so far, dyno to follow as soon as possible this week. Throttle response seemed sluggish, so I reset the throttle adaptations and that showed an immediate improvement. I don't rely on the butt dyno, so we need solid numbers from the Dynojet to know if it's going to work, but it sounds mean!

So far so good! Just need the numbers to back up the ear to ear grin on my face.

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      07-04-2014, 05:07 PM   #51
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Great work... once again what im afraid off is the ambient temps in that are in the engine bay they get up to 300F
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      07-04-2014, 05:38 PM   #52
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I'm in the same boat, it is on fire under the hood. I drove it without the engine cover on and got an engine compartment temperature warning.

That said, if I can get the filters to the front of the car, we might be in business. My next revision is going to use mandrel bends, 180 degrees, to straight tube, to 90 degrees to put the filters behind the grills.

So if the dyno is disappointing, I might have another trick up my sleeve.
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      07-04-2014, 09:11 PM   #53
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Im with badblack, dyno will read nice, because you have a open hood with fans blowing cold air into the engine bay, but daily driving hood closed, not sure.. Since you went this far maybe make a heat shield?
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      07-04-2014, 09:36 PM   #54
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And a modified hood.
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      07-05-2014, 12:03 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gclions View Post
I'm in the same boat, it is on fire under the hood. I drove it without the engine cover on and got an engine compartment temperature warning.

That said, if I can get the filters to the front of the car, we might be in business. My next revision is going to use mandrel bends, 180 degrees, to straight tube, to 90 degrees to put the filters behind the grills.

So if the dyno is disappointing, I might have another trick up my sleeve.
weird i dont get any codes i haven't had my engine cover on since day i got my car.
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      07-05-2014, 09:49 AM   #56
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Data runs with new intakes

Guys,

Here is some interesting information for comparison before and after. I took my temperature data from my run on 7/1/14 (stock intakes) and compared it to my data runs 7/5/14 (modified intakes).

Long story short, the intake air temperature is indeed higher, which should surprise no one. What was surprising was the charge air temperature was much lower at the same point on the curves, around 20F cooler! So, I haven't given up on this one yet, it appears that this intake will be similar to Terry's intake on the N54, where it sucks hotter air but still makes power.

I built support brackets for the filters this morning, and my next order of business is to get some heat shield material to try and balance temps under the hood. There is a wide delta between each side of the engine compartment, with the passenger side running WAY hotter. Looking at the curves, the 1's are passenger side and the 2's are driver side.

Here is the first graph, stock intakes:
- 10:00 pm
- 81F outside temperature
- 68% humidity

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Now here is the second graph, modified intakes:
- 10:00 am
- 75F outside temperature
- 45% humidity

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      07-06-2014, 01:06 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gclions View Post
Guys,

Here is some interesting information for comparison before and after. I took my temperature data from my run on 7/1/14 (stock intakes) and compared it to my data runs 7/5/14 (modified intakes).

Long story short, the intake air temperature is indeed higher, which should surprise no one. What was surprising was the charge air temperature was much lower at the same point on the curves, around 20F cooler! So, I haven't given up on this one yet, it appears that this intake will be similar to Terry's intake on the N54, where it sucks hotter air but still makes power.

I built support brackets for the filters this morning, and my next order of business is to get some heat shield material to try and balance temps under the hood. There is a wide delta between each side of the engine compartment, with the passenger side running WAY hotter. Looking at the curves, the 1's are passenger side and the 2's are driver side.

Here is the first graph, stock intakes:
- 10:00 pm
- 81F outside temperature
- 68% humidity

Attachment 1054022

Now here is the second graph, modified intakes:
- 10:00 am
- 75F outside temperature
- 45% humidity

Attachment 1054021
good work!
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      07-06-2014, 02:33 PM   #58
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Any chance you could use the bottom half of the stock airbox for a heat shield?
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      07-06-2014, 07:09 PM   #59
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Great idea, and yes the bottom of the clam shell will fit. I reinstalled the tubing from the front of the car, and reinstalled the bottoms of the intakes.

As an aside, I ran my first autocross in the car today. A little slow to start, but I had that boat sliding around the track on the 5th run. I cut my time by 5 seconds. The intakes sound amazing under full throttle! There was a photographer there, so if they post pics I'll be sure to add them. I can say without a doubt that was the most fun I've had in a car.

No datalogging on the track, but my hope is the dyno is available tomorrow. As long as the curves show a benefit, I plan to send the intakes to badblack to test them on the dragstrip.

I may do a little datalogging tonight, the temp is about the same as the other morning, and I'm curious if the intake bottoms help knock down that temperature under the hood.

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      07-06-2014, 07:18 PM   #60
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Best way to get ambient temps down is to get the down pipes and turbos coated with ceramic coat.
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      07-06-2014, 07:59 PM   #61
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I agree with you. I've been holding off coating them in the event I need to reconfigure the setup. I want all welding complete, then I'll coat them. Ceramic of course.
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      07-06-2014, 09:21 PM   #62
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Awesome work! I am def. interested in a set when you are ready!

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      07-06-2014, 09:35 PM   #63
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So far so good! I think there are now a couple people working on an intake for our N63's! I'm wondering why there aren't even any drop in filters available?! Here's another question I was just thinking about when I looked at my engine bay and also in regards to IAT's, if the inlets are behind the kidney grills why not just remove all the filters from the air box and put 2 conical filters behind the grills? Would that be possible with a bracket taking the shape of the OEM pipe then to a 3" round for the filter? Just shooting out some ideas.
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      07-06-2014, 10:24 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Downfourit View Post
So far so good! I think there are now a couple people working on an intake for our N63's! I'm wondering why there aren't even any drop in filters available?! Here's another question I was just thinking about when I looked at my engine bay and also in regards to IAT's, if the inlets are behind the kidney grills why not just remove all the filters from the air box and put 2 conical filters behind the grills? Would that be possible with a bracket taking the shape of the OEM pipe then to a 3" round for the filter? Just shooting out some ideas.
it might block the air flow on to the radiator and causing temperatures going up... but everything needs to be tested... i make custom drop ins but its a pain in the ass for now and very costly... no manufacturers are interested so far to make them.
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      07-07-2014, 12:39 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badblack550xi View Post
it might block the air flow on to the radiator and causing temperatures going up... but everything needs to be tested... i make custom drop ins but its a pain in the ass for now and very costly... no manufacturers are interested so far to make them.
What about these filters are such a pain compared to any other OEM flat filter? I'm just surprised K&N or AFE don't make them.. I'll check out the radiator area tomorrow. I was just trying to figure something out where the turbos can suck air in from outside the engine bay. On my old N54 the turbos at least were on the lower side of the block and not right up on top but if that option works and makes power I would run this intake.
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      07-07-2014, 05:19 AM   #66
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As far as "drop-ins" go, there is a lot of cutting and sealing involved to make a pair of filters. Plus the stock filters are glued in, and the seal comes out in pieces.

Concerning putting cones up front, I believe it can be done, but it's going to be expensive. You have a pretty good idea with an adapter to put a cone on the end of the stock air inlet, but all of those pieces fit together really loose and you would suck up a lot of engine bay crap in my opinion. I think I can get 3" tubing to the front, but I need a lot of random bends to play with. It's a process, but I'm down with whatever makes power. I think I might order a tight radius 180 degree bend to see if it will fit. That will be our tightest fit, from my current intakes circled back to the front.

Keep the ideas coming, I'll try just about anything to see if it makes power.

***Quick update

With the stock intake bottoms installed temperatures were definitely cooler. Before putting the bottoms back on the intakes would be too hot to touch, but after the spirited drive to work which allowed time to get fully up to temperature, the intakes were just warm. So without using a pyrometer, the touch test says it helped knock down the temperature.

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