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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum 2012 BMW 528i Receives N20 Turbo 4-cyl Engine, Auto Stop/Start and xDrive AWD
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      07-04-2011, 03:47 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteVTEC View Post
Mitsubishi has gotten 270hp/270tq or more out of their 4G63 engine in the Evo, which is a 2.0L also. The current engine in the U.S. is called a 4B11 with 290hp/300tq and still 2.0L. Subaru has had some pretty high spec 2.0/2.5L turbocharged Boxer engines too, but we've been getting just the 2.5L variants in the U.S. so I'm not sure what they've gotten their 2.0L engines up to in other markets. I know they've hit 300hp, though.

The base 740i in the U.S. is running the N54/N55 at 315hp/330tq now, although I'm not sure which engine it is, the N54 or the N55. I'm guessing the 5er will see those specs in a few years when they update.
The 4G63 is an ancient lump (debuted nearly 20yrs ago) yet those engines are tough (some UK-spec Evos run over 400ps out of the box). Also, the Subaru EJ20 first reached 250ps for non-STi WRXs for MY1995, so 240ps is considered as upper average (current JDM Impreza STi has 300ps from their 2.0 engines).
The 740i in ROW/EU-spec uses N54 & puts out 326ps/450Nm, & the new 640i uses N55 & puts out 320ps/450Nm.
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      07-04-2011, 03:48 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteVTEC View Post
The base 740i in the U.S. is running the N54/N55 at 315hp/330tq now, although I'm not sure which engine it is, the N54 or the N55. I'm guessing the 5er will see those specs in a few years when they update.
The 740i still has the N54, however the new 640i uses the N55 @ about the same power (316hp or so). It is a pretty sure bet that the 740i will get this same higher power N55 next year with its LCI.
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      07-04-2011, 04:00 PM   #47
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Great info.

Oh the biggest reason for the N20 to need to hit 240hp is, of course, to be able to replace the 240hp NA I6 in the U.S. 528i without it looking like a downgrade to most buyers, who are only going to look at the horsepower number. If somebody notices that it's a 4-cylinder now instead of a 6-cyl and has a bad reaction, the sales people can instantly jump to the "so? it has 30 lb-ft more torque!" line.

Was hoping we'd get something like a 520d for the U.S., but doesn't look like that's gonna happen.
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      07-05-2011, 07:25 AM   #48
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I may be wrong but I predict a lot of resistance to a 5 with a 4.
We'll see.
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      07-05-2011, 11:18 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRBob View Post
I may be wrong but I predict a lot of resistance to a 5 with a 4.
We'll see.
quite possible... similar to resistance against 5-GT
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      07-05-2011, 11:58 AM   #50
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For every guy that won't buy a base model 5 series with an I-4, there is a guy who will add to the top of the list because it has great fuel efficiency for a car in this class.

By the way, BMW will be in good company since the MY2012 A6 will also get a 2.0 TFSI. That engine has been hugely popular for Audi, and now BMW will have something to go directly against it, and with more power at that.
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      07-05-2011, 01:09 PM   #51
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I agree reaching the 240hp figure so that it doesn't appear to be a downgrade for marketing, and also increased performance figures.. which makes one think they are 'pushing' for $ reasons.
I realize 240hp on a 2.0T is not pushing it, but those other cars are performance and hardly your volume sedan, except for VW (is it?) but they do have problems after a while(?). By problems i mean don't automatically assume a clear-sailing 10yr ownership of a turbo engine without something going wrong, on the majority of cars. Just guessing on my part, but the mechanics of turbo imply such (or not?).
Ironic if even the carmakers could car less what an engine looks like in 10yrs, but what ceo would still be around in that time? Alot of what we are seeing is market realities +eco mandates, rather than engineering reality, its more like engineering for profit. Which has to exist, I realize, but history has shown when they push it too much one way, the wheels WILL fall off, and kaboom! they will start to focus on reliability as they rebuild and it starts again..
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      07-05-2011, 01:18 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRBob View Post
I may be wrong but I predict a lot of resistance to a 5 with a 4.
We'll see.
It may be for USA but that won't happen in Asia or Europe. In Europe the biggest selling 5er is the 520d, in Asia we've accepted 4cyl engines for these class of cars for a long time already.
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      07-05-2011, 01:45 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grimlock View Post
I agree reaching the 240hp figure so that it doesn't appear to be a downgrade for marketing, and also increased performance figures.. which makes one think they are 'pushing' for $ reasons.
I realize 240hp on a 2.0T is not pushing it, but those other cars are performance and hardly your volume sedan, except for VW (is it?) but they do have problems after a while(?). By problems i mean don't automatically assume a clear-sailing 10yr ownership of a turbo engine without something going wrong, on the majority of cars. Just guessing on my part, but the mechanics of turbo imply such (or not?).
Ironic if even the carmakers could car less what an engine looks like in 10yrs, but what ceo would still be around in that time? Alot of what we are seeing is market realities +eco mandates, rather than engineering reality, its more like engineering for profit. Which has to exist, I realize, but history has shown when they push it too much one way, the wheels WILL fall off, and kaboom! they will start to focus on reliability as they rebuild and it starts again..
Those Evos & WRXs are performance cars but at the same time they're also volume cars, with lots being produced over the yrs. Will there be problems over the years? It mostly depends on maintenance as well as the way how u treat the engine.
BMW have always invested in their R&D & they use each generation of engine for at least 10yrs, this N20 is no different & a whole host of bread & butter BMWs will be using this engine. They cannot fail with this engine or else the company will lose a lot of sales. It's not like the N54 or M60 V8 where problems with them won't cause too much loss in sales. I think they're pushing this N20 less than their NA engines in terms of specific power outputs, for example, the 3.0 N53 pushes out 90.7ps/litre & the N52 at 86ps/litre. So I think this engine is relatively less stressed than a lot of their NA engines.
Btw, MB & VAG are in this force induction game for far longer than BMW & they're hitting far better performance & economy figures & customers have long accepted it.
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      07-05-2011, 03:47 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarence View Post
I think they're pushing this N20 less than their NA engines in terms of specific power outputs, for example, the 3.0 N53 pushes out 90.7ps/litre & the N52 at 86ps/litre. So I think this engine is relatively less stressed than a lot of their NA engines.
Peak power per liter probably isn't the best measure of how stressed an engine is. The higher spec N52/N53 engines just have induction systems tuned to still deliver a lot of torque at higher RPMs. A better look at engine "stress" is from the BMEP figures (brake mean effective pressure). It's a bit more complicated than this because you have to factor in compression ratio, but you can get rough figures from the torque per liter numbers.

N52: 220lb-ft or 300Nm / 3.0L = 100.0 Nm/L
N53: 230lb-ft or 310Nm / 3.0L = 103.3 Nm/L
N55: 300lb-ft or 400Nm / 3.0L = 133.3 Nm/L
N20: 260lb-ft or 350Nm / 2.0L = 175.0 Nm/L

Forced induction engines are definitely more stressed than most any NA engine. They need extra strength to handle the power which is why you drop the magnesium engine block for aluminum, or aluminum in favor of iron. I think the VAG 2.0T engine is still using an iron block, for example. You also need to pay a whole lot more attention to cooling as well, in terms of water and oil passages in the engine block and eliminating hot spots. You've got a whole lot more heat to remove from a 2.0L engine making up to 260 lb-ft or 350Nm of torque and employed in a heavier 4000lb 5er class vehicle where its average load will be heavier. The turbochargers themselves get incredibly hot and require special cooling attention as well, and spin at up to 100,000rpm. The more goodies in the engine, the more that can go wrong. Personally I wouldn't expect any of these new turbo engines from BMW to be able to last to 100,000 miles without needing some sort of major overhaul. Hopefully they'll have learned a thing or two from all the issues on the N54 and this N20 will be better, but BMW has never been a company that places a big focus on reliability like the Japanese.

Subaru turbo engines seem to be about the best out there as far as reliability, but a) they're Japanese, b) they have a whole lot of experience with turbo engines, and c) they're not pushing the tech envelope nearly as hard as BMW and the Europeans in general are trying to do. The latest EJ25T in the Subaru Legacy has similar power figures to the BMW N20, but from a 2.5L engine rather than a 2.0L, and it's also running a much lower 8.4:1 compression ratio rather than 10.3 I think on the BMWs, and port injection. Will result in higher fuel consumption and also more turbo lag, but better reliability. No worries about intake deposit issues on a port injected engine, but you can't push the compression ratio nearly as high without direct injection. Tough to have it all at once. The Honda/Acura turbo engine in the RDX is similar with a much lower 8.x:1 compression ratio and port injection. Not all that efficient, but I bet it will be more reliable than the BMW engines.
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      07-06-2011, 09:55 PM   #55
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Just wait until Burger Tuning makes a piggyback for the N52!!! Now 328 drivers can tune their cars
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      07-06-2011, 09:57 PM   #56
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Also.. This N20 motor will have high pressure fuel injection.. Does that mean theyve fixed the hpfp issues?!?
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      07-16-2011, 10:00 AM   #57
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32 MPG I-6 Not Good Enough?

I'm so pleased that I bought the 2011 model 528i before the change to 4 cylinders. The I-6 delivers the goods with 32 MPG highway, "as advertised!" I think BMW will lose a generation of buyers with the "4", and I don't begrudge the new generation of buyers who are likely to come in.
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      07-16-2011, 12:23 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAL278 View Post
Also.. This N20 motor will have high pressure fuel injection.. Does that mean theyve fixed the hpfp issues?!?
Looks likely. It seems like hpfp trouble only applies to US for some reason. In Europe they had direct injection since 2007 without much trouble.
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      07-16-2011, 06:58 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarence View Post
Looks likely. It seems like hpfp trouble only applies to US for some reason. In Europe they had direct injection since 2007 without much trouble.
Fuel quality is probably the significant difference, leading to problems in the US that were not encountered in Europe. (It's not the first time, either.)
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      07-28-2011, 09:45 AM   #60
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2012 F10 Product from BMW Canada. N20 is here, 241 hp, 258 lb/ft
https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/press...tem=node__2235
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      07-28-2011, 11:06 PM   #61
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Great info, thanks.

528 N20 0-60 6.2
0-100 6.5
weight 1730
528xi 1815
comparo with 535,550 reveals N20 saves 40kg on N52/3?
rear weight 50.6% I believe it was 50 for the N52/3 ..?
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      07-29-2011, 03:59 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eatrach73 View Post
530d is coming next year
I am sure that at some point BMW will bring the 530d over... but it is NOT included in the 2012 North American Order guide (effective Sept. 1, 2011). My SA sent me the .pdf...no 530d for 2012.

Too bad...but maybe they will bring it in the March MY 2012 cycle??
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      07-30-2011, 07:09 PM   #63
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Why in heaven's name would they have a lineup that includes a 530d and a 335d?
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