[indus]

In the UK there is a £5k difference between the 535d and 535i. The BHP of both is near identical and the 535d has 50% more torque. I've only driven the 530d so far and really enjoyed the wave of torque. In terms of mpg I only do 8k miles a year so don't think I'd ever recover the £5k differential in fuel costs.

So my question is whether the 535i engine is as nice, powerful and enjoyable as the 535d

Thanks

[EdM5]

Both engines are fantastic. It's just a matter of personal preference.
You should give both a try and then decide for yourself.

Personally I like the low revs tidal wave of torque when cruising with the diesel. It is very relaxing and it suits a heavy car. But the (high rev) sound and silky smooth characteristics of the petrol straight 6 is simply stunning.

With cars this expensive, MPG doesn't seem so important anyway.

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by indus

In the UK there is a £5k difference between the 535d and 535i. The BHP of both is near identical and the 535d has 50% more torque. I've only driven the 530d so far and really enjoyed the wave of torque. In terms of mpg I only do 8k miles a year so don't think I'd ever recover the £5k differential in fuel costs.

So my question is whether the 535i engine is as nice, powerful and enjoyable as the 535d

Thanks

If you configure the 535i with sport auto the price difference comes down to £3k and, speaking from 3k miles experience, the 8 speed gearbox is well worth the extra.
I've only driven the 35i unit in a Z4 and I agree that it's a fantastic engine, but you have to work it hard in order to fully appreciate it and that would mean a significant reduction in 'real-world' mpg.
The diesel engine is just sublime, it feels effortless and I love that lazy low-end rumble as you're rapidly propelled towards the horizon. It's quite uncanny to feel such acceleration with so little drama.

[HighlandPete]

535d is in another league, IMO. Same view as JonD.

Personally I'd compare the 530d with the 535i, (both for performance and price). Then the decision is much closer. Having driven the 530d 'back to back' with the 535i, even I (a diesel guy) am attracted back to the sweetness of petrol with the 535i engine. The turbo does give it the nearest you can get to the diesel feel, as there is a decent amount of mid range torque. Plus those revs...

New 535i or 535d, I'd be in the d. New 530d vs 535i, a difficult shout, but as a used example, I'd have either based on other options fitted.

HighlandPete

[Robin_NL]

The only thing I don't like about the .30/35d engine is it's idle. The 'Laufkultur' is ok for a diesel but it still sounds like a tractor to me, sorry.

4 years ago I tried the 335dA vs the 335i 6MT, both E90. I chose the .35i because of the idle/revving/silence/sound when doing 140kmh( 85mph) etc.

The 535d is also a lot more expensive in Holland than a 535i with irl the same performance(don't believe the torque push, believe the speedometer), and taken into account I only drive 12000miles a year, the diesel just doesn't suit me.

530d/535d I love the torque:addictive.
But the .35i revs to 7000rpm redline with a much better sound imo.

PLUS the .30d/35d engine is heavier than it's .35 petrol counterpart in an already mastodontic car....

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by Robin Hood

mastodontic

Impressive vocabulary, especially from a Dutchman .

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by Jon D

Impressive vocabulary, especially from a Dutchman .

If that word in English doesn't exist, I stand corrected.

Cheers
Robin

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by Robin Hood

If that word in English doesn't exist, I stand corrected.

Cheers
Robin

It most certainly does exist and you have absolutely no reason to stand corrected. It's a perfectly appropriate word; perhaps a tad exaggerative, but that's the beauty of language .

[E60toF07]

I also can't decide about F07 xDrive - 530d or 535i. I never used diesel before but many people advised it. Diesel is more economical - in tax, mpg - but not serious for me because I don't drive a lot. To fill in tank rarely - yes this is advantage for me. But cold winter season in my area makes diesel more risky.
I even tried both engines but still didn't decided. Sure diesel torque makes perfect feeling of power till......100 km/h but go out after 120-130 km/h. 535i is more uniform. BTW I listen something like diesel noise from 535i - I read the same in another thread also.
Probably will toss up coin to decide :-)

[Snapper Chris]

Originally Posted by indus

In the UK there is a £5k difference between the 535d and 535i. The BHP of both is near identical and the 535d has 50% more torque. I've only driven the 530d so far and really enjoyed the wave of torque. In terms of mpg I only do 8k miles a year so don't think I'd ever recover the £5k differential in fuel costs.

So my question is whether the 535i engine is as nice, powerful and enjoyable as the 535d

Thanks

I've recently changed from a 535d E61 to a 535i F11 so have some experience of both engines. The 'd' was smooth for a diesel, although slight tingles were noticeable at idle, and the torque was amazing. However the 'i' in comparison has smoothness that is on a different level and makes the 'd' seem a little agricultural. The noise of the diesel at higher revs was fine but at low revs it was a bit harsh and 'tappety'. The 535i petrol engine is either virtually silent at idle and at higher revs makes the sublime noise that most people love about BMW inline sixes.

In terms of fuel economy I used to achieve a realistic 36mpg (UK gallons) on the 'd' and so far on the 'i' am getting 30mpg - however the car has only done 400 miles so is no doubt still a bit tight and not yet delivering its best fuel consumption. If you work out the relative cost over 8000mls with diesel costing 3-4p more per gallon then the difference in fuel cost is probably hardly worth worrying about.

In terms of torque the 535i is not quite as stump pulling as the 535d but it's more than acceptable and I think if you came to this engine without having experienced the 535d first you would probably be extremely impressed. I thought I might miss the torque but actually with the 535i and its 8 speed auto (the 535d had 6) it really isn't an issue and for me the smoothness is the preferable characteristic.

Actually the main reason I changed from diesel to petrol was concern about the use to which I was putting the car. I only do about 7000 to 8000 a year (similar to Indus I guess) and not that many of those were high speed motorway miles. I was starting to get the diesel particulate filter clogging up, and although the automatic regeneration system seemed to clear it OK, I was concerned that if the car did need a new particulate filter the cost of that (about £2k including fitting I believe) would greatly outweigh any potential fuel savings of diesel. I realised that for the limited mileage I was doing diesel really wasn't the most sensible choice. Also, and maybe it's a small point, but the diesel's heater took an age to provide any heat. The petrol is much quicker in that respect.

Hope that helps a little.

Regards

Chris

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by Snapper Chris

I've recently changed from a 535d E61 to a 535i F11 so have some experience of both engines. The 'd' was smooth for a diesel, although slight tingles were noticeable at idle, and the torque was amazing. However the 'i' in comparison has smoothness that is on a different level and makes the 'd' seem a little agricultural. The noise of the diesel at higher revs was fine but at low revs it was a bit harsh and 'tappety'. The 535i petrol engine is either virtually silent at idle and at higher revs makes the sublime noise that most people love about BMW inline sixes.

In terms of fuel economy I used to achieve a realistic 36mpg (UK gallons) on the 'd' and so far on the 'i' am getting 30mpg - however the car has only done 400 miles so is no doubt still a bit tight and not yet delivering its best fuel consumption. If you work out the relative cost over 8000mls with diesel costing 3-4p more per gallon then the difference in fuel cost is probably hardly worth worrying about.

In terms of torque the 535i is not quite as stump pulling as the 535d but it's more than acceptable and I think if you came to this engine without having experienced the 535d first you would probably be extremely impressed. I thought I might miss the torque but actually with the 535i and its 8 speed auto (the 535d had 6) it really isn't an issue and for me the smoothness is the preferable characteristic.

Actually the main reason I changed from diesel to petrol was concern about the use to which I was putting the car. I only do about 7000 to 8000 a year (similar to Indus I guess) and not that many of those were high speed motorway miles. I was starting to get the diesel particulate filter clogging up, and although the automatic recycling system seemed to clear it OK, I was concerned that if the car did need a new particulate filter the cost of that (about £2k including fitting I believe) would greatly outweigh any potential fuel savings of diesel. I realised that for the limited mileage I was doing diesel really wasn't the most sensible choice. Also, and maybe it's a small point, but the diesel's heater took an age to provide any heat. The petrol is much quicker in that respect.

Hope that helps a little.

Regards

Chris

Chris,
All good points in favour of petrol except for the last one regarding warm-up. It was below freezing up her last Monday morning and the car was completely covered in ice. I started the engine, locked the car and went back indoors for a cup of tea - in between five and ten minutes later the glass was clear and the inside of the car was toasty warm - BMW have made a few changes to the new version of the M57 engine.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Jon D

Chris,
All good points in favour of petrol except for the last one regarding warm-up. It was below freezing up her last Monday morning and the car was completely covered in ice. I started the engine, locked the car and went back indoors for a cup of tea - in between five and ten minutes later the glass was clear and the inside of the car was toasty warm - BMW have made a few changes to the new version of the M57 engine.

I've the same reservations as Chris for a diesel next time around, as my driving habits have changed and I'm not doing the same mileage any more, and with more short trips. My 540i would heat very fast compared to any diesel. Coolant would be up to mid range in 3-miles, diesels about 8-miles.

Are you sure your car isn't heating 'inside' due to an improved electric heating element inside the HVAC system? I understand my car (2006) has the electric heating, certainly not related to the engine temperature. It is pushing warm air far too soon to be from the engine.

We run a VW Caravelle diesel, with oil temperature gauge and it is 16 miles, in freezing conditions, before the oil is up to mid range. No wonder it has an auxillary cabin heater.

HighlandPete

[1HOT BMR]

Originally Posted by indus

So my question is whether the 535i engine is as nice, powerful and enjoyable as the 535d

Thanks

The short answer is no. I have not driven any BMW diesels but I'm sure the diesel will be more satisfying because of that mountain of torque. There is nothing like the pull of a diesel when you are passing or going up a hill. I would pay those extra 5K in a heartbeat if I only had the choice to purchase a 535d - no such luck here in the US.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by 1HOT BMR

The short answer is no. I have not driven any BMW diesels but I'm sure the diesel will be more satisfying because of that mountain of torque. There is nothing like the pull of a diesel when you are passing or going up a hill. I would pay those extra 5K in a heartbeat if I only had the choice to purchase a 535d - no such luck here in the US.

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Are you sure your car isn't heating 'inside' due to an improved electric heating element inside the HVAC system? I understand my car (2006) has the electric heating, certainly not related to the engine temperature. It is pushing warm air far too soon to be from the engine.

Ah-ha, so that's why it heats up so quickly; I didn't realise there was an auxiliary heating element within the HVAC system. Thanks for the info.
I confess to wondering at the time as there was no discernible movement on the temperature gauge until I'd done a few miles.
Either way I now have a warm interior within minutes and I'm sticking with diesel for the time being. However, I might be convinced otherwise when the new 6-series coupe arrives - provided they sort the steering!

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by 1HOT BMR

The short answer is no. I have not driven any BMW diesels but I'm sure the diesel will be more satisfying because of that mountain of torque. There is nothing like the pull of a diesel when you are passing or going up a hill. I would pay those extra 5K in a heartbeat if I only had the choice to purchase a 535d - no such luck here in the US.

Just wait until you have to start paying realistic prices for fuel - there'll be a surge of public opinion, not to mention outrage!

[indus]

Thanks.

As expected there is a difference of opinion, which is always healthy. I think I will go for the 535d, I've never owned a diesel before so it will be an adventure!

The kids are also of an age now where we'd like to take them touring around the UK so my mileage may increase somewhat with more motorway miles.

I need to order the car in the next few days to beat the VAT increase, so I'm 99% sure I'll go for the 535d

Thanks again

[bimmerfrei]

Go for the 535d. I used to drive a 335d and it was awesome. Guess the new 535d is a beast.

[indus]

Thanks for all the input. I know this sounds a little bonkers given that we started discussing 535d vs 535i but I'm thinking about the 550i....

The difference in price between 535d and 550i will be about £6.5k. I can just stretch to this but I take it the 550 will devalue a lot more than the 535d?

However a 'chipped' 550i will be almost as fast as my current M5, perhaps even faster on normal roads due to the huge wallop of torque. This is making it tempting.....

[bimmerfrei]

Not bonkers at all. However, even if the 550i and the 535d cost the same I would still go for the 535d. Sure, the petrol car will be faster in most situations, but you will have to fill up twice as often and I suspect that the diesel will keep its value better - at least in Europe. To me, the 535d is the perfect F1X. Especially since that engine will feel extremely powerful in your daily driving. And when you floor it, it will still put a smile on your face.

[indus]

Originally Posted by bimmerfrei

Not bonkers at all. However, even if the 550i and the 535d cost the same I would still go for the 535d. Sure, the petrol car will be faster in most situations, but you will have to fill up twice as often and I suspect that the diesel will keep its value better - at least in Europe. To me, the 535d is the perfect F1X. Especially since that engine will feel extremely powerful in your daily driving. And when you floor it, it will still put a smile on your face.

Thanks, I was hoping you would say that. You've just saved me quite a bit of money. I may well want a year old used F10 M5 in 2013, so the less money this car I buy now loses means that becomes easier to do.

[chuds]

The car you have now, the car you are ordering (535d m sport), and the car you are thinking about in 2013 is the same process of thoughts as me! like you i have come from a E60 M5 and had many a debate in which F10 to buy re petrol or diesel, i have ordered the diesel because in my humble opinion it looks the better all round car and with a bit of luck will retain more value in the future, as for the new M5.......wow what a car!!