2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
 

2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum Impressed with Autohold
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-08-2012, 05:01 AM   #23
Jon D
Brigadier General
Jon D's Avatar
Scotland
219
Rep
3,016
Posts

Drives: 2022 840d
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Scotland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKutta View Post
I hope you aren't being serious.

Just because Auto H allows you to take your foot off the pedal while maintaining the brake pressure, does not mean that the brakes are not active. Therefore, when the brakes are "pressed" under Active H, the brake lights should be on, just like when you use your foot to press the brake. How is the guy behind you meant to know how you have stopped. Auto H works exactly like it should.
The auto-hold function replicates that of a manually applied handbrake.
When the latter is actuated it does not activate the brake lights; normally these only illuminate to indicate that you are applying the foot brake.
Therefore, I don't consider it unreasonable to expect a similar pattern in my BMW, regardless of whether it has a manual or automatic handbrake.
So, to sum up, it would appear that I was indeed being serious - sorry to dash your hopes
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2012, 05:24 AM   #24
Jon D
Brigadier General
Jon D's Avatar
Scotland
219
Rep
3,016
Posts

Drives: 2022 840d
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Scotland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKutta View Post
And how are automatics driven in the UK? Do you do the same at traffic lights? What about stop-and-go traffic?
It's only a vague supposition on my part, but I'm imagining that UK based automatic cars are driven in a similar fashion to those in other parts of the world.
As to the second and third parts of your question: if a car is at traffic lights, in stop-and-go traffic or, for that matter, any similar circumstance, the brake lights will only illuminate if the car is being held by the footbrake.
If the handbrake is applied and the footbrake is released, the brake lights will go off.
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2012, 06:08 AM   #25
BigKutta
Brigadier General
BigKutta's Avatar
United_States
3871
Rep
4,040
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2C, 2019 330xi, 2017 Q7
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Washington DC Burbs

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2019 330xi  [0.00]
2017 Audi Q7 3.0  [0.00]
2020 M2C  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon D View Post
It's only a vague supposition on my part, but I'm imagining that UK based automatic cars are driven in a similar fashion to those in other parts of the world.
As to the second and third parts of your question: if a car is at traffic lights, in stop-and-go traffic or, for that matter, any similar circumstance, the brake lights will only illuminate if the car is being held by the footbrake.
If the handbrake is applied and the footbrake is released, the brake lights will go off.
Yes I understand how the brake light works, but who drives like that in stop-and-go traffic?
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2012, 07:37 AM   #26
Douggie
Lieutenant
142
Rep
491
Posts

Drives: BMW X1, X3
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Asia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gspannu View Post
Auto Hold is supposedly an 'automatic hand brake mechanism' replacement. Going by that logic; the brake lights can be turned off. (I do agree it may be safer to keep brake lights on)… but I also know that in countries like UK; it is considered rude to stop at red lights with your brake lights on.

The official recommended practice (in UK) is to stop at red-light, shift to Neutral; pull handbrake; release brake pedal… and this how most manual cars are driven by UK drivers.

Since Auto-Hold does all of this on its own; to have the option of turning off brake lights on Auto-Hold is not that surprising….
Wow. Haven't been to UK, but if having your brake lights on during red lights is considered rude, can't imagine what happens if the guy cuts into your lane abruptly?
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2012, 08:01 AM   #27
fat dog
Private First Class
fat dog's Avatar
England
29
Rep
129
Posts

Drives: iX3 M Sport Pro
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: North East

iTrader: (0)

The auto hold function does the job of the footbrake pedal (and releases instantly once the accelerator pedal is pressed). If you want something to do the job of the handbrake, why not just use the handbrake? It is quite acceptable to bring the car to a stop using the footbrake as normal and once stationary, the handbrake can be applied and the brake pedal released, even with the car remaining in D. As would be expected, this then disengages the brake lights. When ready to go, a gentle push on the accelerator automatically and imperceptibly releases the handbrake, just like with auto hold where the main brakes are gently released.

To clear up an earlier point, opening the door with the car in drive will automatically trigger P to be engaged (as a safety feature).
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2012, 08:21 AM   #28
arnsbrae
Lieutenant
arnsbrae's Avatar
United Kingdom
25
Rep
507
Posts

Drives: BMW 520d
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: United Kingdom

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fat dog View Post
<SNIP> It is quite acceptable to bring the car to a stop using the footbrake as normal and once stationary, the handbrake can be applied and the brake pedal released, even with the car remaining in D. As would be expected, this then disengages the brake lights. When ready to go, a gentle push on the accelerator automatically and imperceptibly releases the handbrake, just like with auto hold where the main brakes are gently released.
<SNIP>
Yup, that's what I'll be doing.
__________________
August 2012 F10 520d SE sport automatic, Jet Black, Oyster\Black Leather, light ash wood trim, Professional media/ navigation, mobile apps, Internet, DAB radio.
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2012, 08:48 AM   #29
The X Men
Colonel
99
Rep
2,323
Posts

Drives: 2013 X3 35i
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: MA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gspannu View Post
Auto Hold is supposedly an 'automatic hand brake mechanism' replacement. Going by that logic; the brake lights can be turned off. (I do agree it may be safer to keep brake lights on)… but I also know that in countries like UK; it is considered rude to stop at red lights with your brake lights on.

The official recommended practice (in UK) is to stop at red-light, shift to Neutral; pull handbrake; release brake pedal… and this how most manual cars are driven by UK drivers.

Since Auto-Hold does all of this on its own; to have the option of turning off brake lights on Auto-Hold is not that surprising….
You Brits are way too polite. If you accidentally left have your brake lights on, do you get out of the car and apologize to the driver behind you?
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2012, 09:29 AM   #30
arnsbrae
Lieutenant
arnsbrae's Avatar
United Kingdom
25
Rep
507
Posts

Drives: BMW 520d
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: United Kingdom

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
You Brits are way too polite. If you accidentally left have your brake lights on, do you get out of the car and apologize to the driver behind you?
Yes...sorry about that.
__________________
August 2012 F10 520d SE sport automatic, Jet Black, Oyster\Black Leather, light ash wood trim, Professional media/ navigation, mobile apps, Internet, DAB radio.
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2012, 11:03 AM   #31
Jon D
Brigadier General
Jon D's Avatar
Scotland
219
Rep
3,016
Posts

Drives: 2022 840d
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Scotland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fat dog View Post
The auto hold function does the job of the footbrake pedal (and releases instantly once the accelerator pedal is pressed). If you want something to do the job of the handbrake, why not just use the handbrake?
What handbrake? The F10 only has an electromechanical parking brake and regardless of whether it's applied manually or automatically, the brake lights illuminate.
This is unlike cars which have traditional manual, lever actuated, handbrakes which do not illuminate the brake lights.
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2012, 11:08 AM   #32
Jon D
Brigadier General
Jon D's Avatar
Scotland
219
Rep
3,016
Posts

Drives: 2022 840d
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Scotland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fat dog View Post
To clear up an earlier point, opening the door with the car in drive will automatically trigger P to be engaged (as a safety feature).
It was me who made the point; I thank you for your clarification, but I can assure you that it isn't necessary; I'm well aware that park is automatically selected when the door is opened.
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2012, 11:12 AM   #33
Jon D
Brigadier General
Jon D's Avatar
Scotland
219
Rep
3,016
Posts

Drives: 2022 840d
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Scotland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
You Brits are way too polite. If you accidentally left have your brake lights on, do you get out of the car and apologize to the driver behind you?
Not quite, but I'm perfectly happy at being thought of as over polite; it's better than shooting those with whom we disagree .
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2012, 01:15 PM   #34
arnsbrae
Lieutenant
arnsbrae's Avatar
United Kingdom
25
Rep
507
Posts

Drives: BMW 520d
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: United Kingdom

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon D View Post
Not quite, but I'm perfectly happy at being thought of as over polite; it's better than shooting those with whom we disagree .
__________________
August 2012 F10 520d SE sport automatic, Jet Black, Oyster\Black Leather, light ash wood trim, Professional media/ navigation, mobile apps, Internet, DAB radio.
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2012, 01:45 PM   #35
gspannu
Major
United Kingdom
199
Rep
1,207
Posts

Drives: F10 535, F82 M4
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKutta View Post
And how are automatics driven in the UK? Do you do the same at traffic lights? What about stop-and-go traffic?
For a start, UK has far fewer automatics; the vast majority is manual cars; hence the general expectation of brake lights being off.

On the point of start stop traffic, you'd be surprised by what we Brits can do. Most people will pull up handbrakes each time...

As someone has already posted, we Brits are far too polite; and I guess that is a very good thing.
__________________
---
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2012, 01:58 PM   #36
MPH
Private First Class
United Kingdom
8
Rep
143
Posts

Drives: F10 530D SE 2013 Imperial Blue
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Wales

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKutta View Post
And how are automatics driven in the UK? Do you do the same at traffic lights? What about stop-and-go traffic?
Us UK automatic drivers sit with our foot on the brake at traffic lights, junctions, when stopped etc.. We even sit on our brakes in slow moving traffic but with a lighter foot so that we edge forward with the traffic with the brake on

The fact that none of the manual (stick) drivers can remember this just goes to show that it is probably nowhere near as annoying as they imagine
__________________
F10 530d SE. Imperial Blue Xirallic. Venetian Beige. Adaptive Drive and lots of toys!
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2012, 02:39 PM   #37
The X Men
Colonel
99
Rep
2,323
Posts

Drives: 2013 X3 35i
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: MA

iTrader: (0)

I dont know about you guys, but I dont think the brake light in front of me is annoying at all.

Last edited by The X Men; 08-09-2012 at 07:49 AM..
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2012, 03:08 PM   #38
gspannu
Major
United Kingdom
199
Rep
1,207
Posts

Drives: F10 535, F82 M4
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
I dont know about you guys, but I dont fring the brake light in front of me annoying at all.
Try that on a typical UK winter day; rush hour traffic, 5:30pm, already dark, constant slow rain, drizzle... and the brake lights start to become annoying.
__________________
---
Appreciate 0
      08-08-2012, 04:32 PM   #39
Jon D
Brigadier General
Jon D's Avatar
Scotland
219
Rep
3,016
Posts

Drives: 2022 840d
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Scotland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gspannu View Post
Try that on a typical UK winter day; rush hour traffic, 5:30pm, already dark, constant slow rain, drizzle... and the brake lights start to become annoying.
I know exactly what you mean, except that winter darkness starts at around 3:30pm up here .
Appreciate 0
      08-09-2012, 05:55 AM   #40
fat dog
Private First Class
fat dog's Avatar
England
29
Rep
129
Posts

Drives: iX3 M Sport Pro
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: North East

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon D View Post
It was me who made the point; I thank you for your clarification, but I can assure you that it isn't necessary; I'm well aware that park is automatically selected when the door is opened.
The way I read it, you were scratching your head as to why the brake lights went out when you opened your door and got out of the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon D View Post
What handbrake? The F10 only has an electromechanical parking brake and regardless of whether it's applied manually or automatically, the brake lights illuminate.
This is unlike cars which have traditional manual, lever actuated, handbrakes which do not illuminate the brake lights.
The handbrake? That's the one applied by hand, rather than the one applied by the foot. If moving at a low speed and applied, this triggers an emergency stop and yes this illuminates the brake lights. If applied when stationary and assuming the brake pedal is released, the brake lights are not illuminated, even if the car is left in D.
Appreciate 0
      08-09-2012, 06:09 AM   #41
Jon D
Brigadier General
Jon D's Avatar
Scotland
219
Rep
3,016
Posts

Drives: 2022 840d
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Scotland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fat dog View Post
...If applied when stationary and assuming the brake pedal is released, the brake lights are not illuminated, even if the car is left in D.
Here we go again , this is exactly how I thought it was supposed to behave. However, to reiterate one of my earlier statements, whilst in stationary traffic on Monday, with the car in D, foot off the brake and auto-hold engaged, from the reflection in the car behind, I clearly saw that my brake lights were on. This was confirmed when I noted that they went off when I pulled away.
Appreciate 0
      08-09-2012, 06:22 AM   #42
Jon D
Brigadier General
Jon D's Avatar
Scotland
219
Rep
3,016
Posts

Drives: 2022 840d
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Scotland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fat dog View Post
The way I read it, you were scratching your head as to why the brake lights went out when you opened your door and got out of the car...
You clearly misread my statement as, at no point, did I mention that there was any head scratching involved. I merely conducted the procedure in order to ascertain that the brake lights did not remain on with the car in auto hold.
My subsequent confusion arose from noticing that this is inconsistent; sometimes they remain on and on other occasions they go off. I have checked this on the odd occasion and at all times with the car in D, foot off the brake and in auto-hold. Granted, it's not always possible to be 100% certain from the reflection in the car behind, so with this in mind, I shall perform a definitive test with the aid of someone observing from behind.
Appreciate 0
      08-09-2012, 07:10 AM   #43
fat dog
Private First Class
fat dog's Avatar
England
29
Rep
129
Posts

Drives: iX3 M Sport Pro
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: North East

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon D View Post
Here we go again , this is exactly how I thought it was supposed to behave. However, to reiterate one of my earlier statements, whilst in stationary traffic on Monday, with the car in D, foot off the brake and auto-hold engaged, from the reflection in the car behind, I clearly saw that my brake lights were on. This was confirmed when I noted that they went off when I pulled away.
I'm talking about being stationary and using the hand/parking/electro-mechanical brake but without auto hold being switched on. In this situation and with the foot off the pedal, the brake lights will not illuminate irrespective of what position the shift lever is in. I've posted to demonstrate that, for example, it is possible to sit at a set of traffic lights with the car left in D and not have the brake lights illuminated (and thus causing glare for the driver behind). You can then pull away as normal by simply pressing the accelerator without having to disengage the hand/parking/electro-mechanical brake, as this is done automatically and imperceptibly.

I don't know why you're experiencing inconsistencies with the brake lights under auto hold. For me, every time auto hold engages, the brake lights are always illuminited (and this is exactly what I would expect). Are you also knocking the car into P or is your routine exactly the same every time?

One thing I haven't tried is to allow auto hold to engage and then apply the hand/parking/electro-mechanical brake and release the foot pedal. Will the lights be on or off?
Appreciate 0
      08-09-2012, 07:52 AM   #44
The X Men
Colonel
99
Rep
2,323
Posts

Drives: 2013 X3 35i
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: MA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gspannu View Post
Try that on a typical UK winter day; rush hour traffic, 5:30pm, already dark, constant slow rain, drizzle... and the brake lights start to become annoying.
We have similar winter traffic here in New England, except, instead of rain, we get snow and ice.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:22 PM.




5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST