[AC_S5]

This topic is like saying if we should let the oil warm up first before revving your engine to redline. Some people do it some people don't. It's your car, do what you like with it as long as you feel good about it.

[Jimefam]

Originally Posted by AC_S5

This topic is like saying if we should let the oil warm up first before revving your engine to redline. Some people do it some people don't. It's your car, do what you like with it as long as you feel good about it.

True but some people are on here arguing things that are common sense. To use your example, I can floor my car and redline it as soon as I turn it on even while the oil is ice cold. Since BMW didn't program anything to prevent this it must be perfectly fine and have NO long term effects. That is just silly to me, if you think that BMW's main objective was making these things last forever your way off. These things have an expected life of 100k and at least for someone like me I drive 25k+/yr so that's not long. You can certainly improve it's longevity with some precautions or you can just run it without sense, 90% of BMW owners lease anyways so they don't care about long term problems. Look on E90post how most people are having to swap turbos around 70k.

[BMWrules7]

Originally Posted by raleedy

I'm mostly opposed to idling engines and the associated waste of fuel and added air pollution. I believe BMW has designed the car to make that unnecessary with the automated cooling that is directed to the turbine. Folklore that encourages people to try to do better seems completely counterproductive to me. You seem to be saying that BMW has put a design on the market, in an effort to reduce fuel consumption, that now requires, or at least benefits from, extra engine use (idling period). Call me skeptical on this.

BMW wants you to think that is the case, especially since they are in the business of selling new cars.

BMW only cares about keeping the car functional during the warranty and Extended warranty. After that they don't care about it.

So, if starting and stopping saves a wee amount of petrol and it harms the engine but not during the warranty then it's all win win for BMW.

But, common sense tells us that starting and stopping the engine is killer over time, doesn't it? Yet, we are led to believe that we are saving the earth by simply shifting the problem.

Did anyone ever do the calculus to see how much wasted energy goes into an engine that last only five years instead of ten years? I can tell you all the idling in the world during the lifespan of the car does not equal the waste of energy and other materials that goes into replacing an engine prematurely.

Stick that in your green pipe and smoke it.

[BigKutta]

I fully expect my BMW to last 10+ years and over 200k miles, long after I have sold it. I sold my e46 at 101k miles and 10 yrs and this car was as good as new. And I followed the manual and recommended service intervals, didn't fuss over the little stuff.

When I bought my e46, people complained about how BMW screwed up and the e36 was the best one ever. Now everyone raves about the e46 and e90, e60 etc. I am sure in a few years, the F10 will be the benchmark. I test drove one of the last few 2011 inline 6 528s and then the 2012 4turbo 528, and the turbo was a far more responsive car, so I went with it. I have faith in BMWs new direction, and put my money in their engineering. Time will tell but I find it hard to believe that BMW builds cars to last just their warranty period.

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by BMWrules7

BMW wants you to think that is the case, especially since they are in the business of selling new cars.

BMW only cares about keeping the car functional during the warranty and Extended warranty. After that they don't care about it.

So, if starting and stopping saves a wee amount of petrol and it harms the engine but not during the warranty then it's all win win for BMW.

But, common sense tells us that starting and stopping the engine is killer over time, doesn't it? Yet, we are led to believe that we are saving the earth by simply shifting the problem.

Did anyone ever do the calculus to see how much wasted energy goes into an engine that last only five years instead of ten years? I can tell you all the idling in the world during the lifespan of the car does not equal the waste of energy and other materials that goes into replacing an engine prematurely.

Stick that in your green pipe and smoke it.

There are a few flaws in this approach. Probably the most important one is the misguided idea that BMW hopes to sell more cars by making them so that they break. That would be a foolish strategy, and BMW has shown itself over time to be smarter than that.

The comparison to warm-up is also inapt. There is no design feature to aid warm-up, but there is a temperature gauge that tells you whether the engine has reached operating range. I don't know about the current published guidelines in, say, the F10 owner's manual, but for years manufacturers have been recommending that their cars be driven conservatively when cold, and in the BMW the oil temp gauge (or in the M series the variable rev limit indicator on the tachometer) assists you in doing this. But the cars with turbochargers have cooling systems designed specifically to eliminate the need for running the engine to cool them down. Assuming that works (and why wouldn't it?), the extra idling time is redundant and serves no useful purpose.

[AC_S5]

Originally Posted by raleedy

There are a few flaws in this approach. Probably the most important one is the misguided idea that BMW hopes to sell more cars by making them so that they break. That would be a foolish strategy, and BMW has shown itself over time to be smarter than that.

The comparison to warm-up is also inapt. There is no design feature to aid warm-up, but there is a temperature gauge that tells you whether the engine has reached operating range. I don't know about the current published guidelines in, say, the F10 owner's manual, but for years manufacturers have been recommending that their cars be driven conservatively when cold, and in the BMW the oil temp gauge (or in the M series the variable rev limit indicator on the tachometer) assists you in doing this. But the cars with turbochargers have cooling systems designed specifically to eliminate the need for running the engine to cool them down. Assuming that works (and why wouldn't it?), the extra idling time is redundant and serves no useful purpose.

I don't think he really mean BMW make cars to break after warranty. They engineer it so it have a expected useful life of say 100,000km or in time frame is 5 years. As we are in Hong Kong and we don't usually drive as much as you guys, so most cars don't reach 100,000km but our SA recommends we swap out some parts after 5 years. But you can choose not to and some guys swap things out at year 7 and it will still work fine.

As for the cold engine, BMW does say drive carefully with cold engine. I usually let the car idle a bit when I was in Canada because the weather is just too cold to be in the car in the morning. With water temperature warm, most assume warm oil but that's not the case, so they fitted the current models with a more useful oil temperature gauge. Besides engine, there are tranny oil and diff oil as well, those need to be warm up as well and there's no temperature gauge for those.

On the E60 they have some white lines that will move back when the car is warm providing you with a guideline as to not to rev the engine to the white lines similar to the M vehicles. But that white line is at 6000 rpm when I start it up in the morning, does that mean anything to me? Does that mean I can rev my engine till 6000 rpm on start up, yes in theory but I wouldn't do that as someone say is just common sense.

Aids are there to help the car but it's not fool-proof. I treat my car with common sense no matter what engineering effort they put into it. Some may not agree but it's your car, do what make you feel good.

[eskdale]

Originally Posted by raleedy

There are a few flaws in this approach. Probably the most important one is the misguided idea that BMW hopes to sell more cars by making them so that they break. That would be a foolish strategy, and BMW has shown itself over time to be smarter than that.

The comparison to warm-up is also inapt. There is no design feature to aid warm-up, but there is a temperature gauge that tells you whether the engine has reached operating range. I don't know about the current published guidelines in, say, the F10 owner's manual, but for years manufacturers have been recommending that their cars be driven conservatively when cold, and in the BMW the oil temp gauge (or in the M series the variable rev limit indicator on the tachometer) assists you in doing this. But the cars with turbochargers have cooling systems designed specifically to eliminate the need for running the engine to cool them down. Assuming that works (and why wouldn't it?), the extra idling time is redundant and serves no useful purpose.

When you say there are no design features to aid warm up - What about the Active grills, Thermostats and Electric fans ?

[raleedy]

My mistake. But those systems only work while the car is on. I was thinking more of per-warming, like block heaters, which tend to be third party add-ons. As I understand it, the cooling system protecting the turbocharger operates after the car is shut off.